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Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 9:28:30 AM   
Knaust

 

Posts: 177
Joined: 3/5/2001
From: Rivoli ITALY
Status: offline 		My granddaughter's first class teacher of English wrote
the 22th of June
I corrected in
the 22nd of June
The teacher said:"Grandfather's wrong!"
Who is right?
Please, help my reputation
Btw I think that it's is an invalid form for the neuter possessive its...however it's so common nowadays
It's is the abbreviation for it is
Post #: 1
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 9:33:13 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		Well, you are right on both counts. 22th of June is...well, it doesn't even sound right, for one thing.

So, I say tell that teacher to go back to English class.

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Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

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Post #: 2
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 9:35:50 AM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		22nd is the correct term.

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Post #: 3
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 9:37:10 AM   
Knaust

 

Posts: 177
Joined: 3/5/2001
From: Rivoli ITALY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Well, you are right on both counts. 22th of June is...well, it doesn't even sound right, for one thing.

So, I say tell that teacher to go back to English class.

quote:

Well, you are right on both counts. 22th of June is...well, it doesn't even sound right, for one thing.

So, I say tell that teacher to go back to English class.


hehe..and to some exercises of logics
22nd twentysecond
12th twelfth

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 4
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 10:27:55 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		22th is how a poof would say it. You know, someone with more than a hint of mint.

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Post #: 5
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 11:09:51 AM   
Oliver Heindorf


Posts: 1911
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Hamburg/Deutschland
Status: offline 		tell the teacher he is moron.

1st
2nd
3rd
4th

thats the way it goes, exeptions are 11th 12th 13th 14th

< Message edited by Oliver Heindorf -- 9/30/2004 10:11:25 AM >

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Post #: 6
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 1:45:02 PM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		The twenty-seco(nd) Its (possessive) It's- it is (abv)
The cat's playing. (abv)

The cats are playing. (poss)

Where is this teacher from?
Amended(webster) Thanks for the heads up. Where's Brady when you need him?

< Message edited by Halsey -- 9/30/2004 3:50:01 PM >

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Post #: 7
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 2:23:36 PM   
Montbrun


Posts: 1498
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Scary isn't it? I'm thankful that mine is only 2, and I don't have to deal with situations like this yet....

Brad

(in reply to Knaust)
Post #: 8
RE: As a former English teacher... - 9/30/2004 2:39:49 PM   
RevRick


Posts: 2617
Joined: 9/16/2000
From: Thomasville, GA
Status: offline 		I would find a good Grammar book, Warriners comes to mind - notate the page(s), and send that lovely bit of misinformed miseducation to the schools department head, cc's to the Principal, and each member of the local School Board. That is attrocious.

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Post #: 9
RE: As a former English teacher... - 9/30/2004 2:53:11 PM   
Thayne

 

Posts: 748
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

I would find a good Grammar book, Warriners comes to mind - notate the page(s), and send that lovely bit of misinformed miseducation to the schools department head, cc's to the Principal, and each member of the local School Board. That is attrocious.



I would agree. Making the mistakes in the first place is bad enough. To arrogantly assert infallibility in the matter against the child's family significantly compounds the issue. It would been a simple matter for this teacher to take the challenge and verify or falsify the original claim (in this case, falsify).

There is good reason to suspect that the students who have this particular teacher will grow up less capable of dealing with the real world than students of some alternative teacher.

So, yes, I would send a notification to somebody, if possible.

For the sake of all the kids that this person would otherwise teach.

(in reply to RevRick)
Post #: 10
RE: As a former English teacher... - 9/30/2004 3:02:19 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		I dunno know about y'all, but my Grandfather is -always- right. Whether it's its, it's, it is, cannot, can not, allot, or a lot.

Grandpa is -never- wrong! (and frankly, I think he's earned it!)
-F-



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Post #: 11
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 3:02:51 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

The teacher said:"Grandfather's wrong!"


Wow, it is one thing to be wrong. It is something else entirely to come off with that type of comment to a child. I would be having a rather colourful discussion with the school board with regards to the credentials of the teacher in question.

Teachers must be held to a higher standard as they produce the adults of tomorrow.

(in reply to Knaust)
Post #: 12
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 5:41:13 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Just accuse the wanker of touching children in their "special areas." Gone in no time. Nobody needs fools in high places. Got enough of those already.

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Post #: 13
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 5:41:42 PM   
PeteG662


Posts: 1263
Joined: 6/7/2004
Status: offline 		Ah, the US education system in its finest yet again! I am an education analyst for Florida and see stuff like this daily!

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Post #: 14
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 7:04:46 PM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Just accuse the wanker of touching children in their "special areas." Gone in no time. Nobody needs fools in high places. Got enough of those already.


****DELETED SCENE FROM TOUCHED BY AN ANGEL*****

[ADA] "Ok Timmy, where did the angel touch you?"
[Timmy] (Points to the "special place" on a doll)
[Angel] "Oh who are you gonna believe huh? I got a freaking halo! C'mon!"

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Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

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Post #: 15
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 7:33:23 PM   
DrewMatrix


Posts: 1429
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline 		Re its and it's

it's is ONLY used as an abbreviation for "it is"

its (no apostrophe) is the possessive.

I would recommend "Eats Shoots and Leaves" as a light book about correct punctuation and hilarious examples of putting a comma in the wrong place.

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Post #: 16
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 7:43:45 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

I would recommend "Eats Shoots and Leaves" as a light book about correct punctuation and hilarious examples of putting a comma in the wrong place.

It's Eats, Shoots and Leaves. You left out your comma

< Message edited by irrelevant -- 9/30/2004 12:43:54 PM >

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Post #: 17
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 7:47:53 PM   
MadmanRick


Posts: 579
Joined: 4/9/2004
From: New York City, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

Ah, the US education system in its finest yet again! I am an education analyst for Florida and see stuff like this daily!


I also see many of these same problems each and every day. I work for New York University and many of the young adults that I come in contact with, cannot spell even simple words. Sadly, I am not speaking of those who use English as a second language, but rather those that have been raised here and whose primary language has been English for most, if not all of their lives. No child left behind indeed.......pass 'em all, lest we offend or embarrass even one family! Mind you NYU isn't a small Community College, but rather a prestigious, Ivy-League level school, which has extremely high entrance requirements. In fact, it turns away many more people than it accepts. Sad, sad situation!

Rick

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Post #: 18
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 7:53:51 PM   
DrewMatrix


Posts: 1429
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline 		It takes me a while to get my brain down to the level of a teacher, but I think I know what the teacher is "thinking" (using the term loosely).

Twenty
Twenty One
Twenty Two

Twentyeth
TwentyOneth
TwentyTooth

20th
21th
22th

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Post #: 19
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 8:00:03 PM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Beezle

Re its and it's

it's is ONLY used as an abbreviation for "it is"

its (no apostrophe) is the possessive.



Thank you for that correction that needed to be made.

Okay, the Gregg Reference Manual, Eighth Edition, states as follows:

"Ordinal figures are expressed as follows: 1st, 2d or 2nd, 3d or 3rd, 4th, etc. Do not sue an 'abbreviation' period following an ordinal figure."

It goes on to note that the editors prefer 2d to 2nd because the spellings used in the Manual are based on Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Tenth Edition, and that's the way they do it.

Gregg is authoratative, running over 500 pages.

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Post #: 20
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 8:00:53 PM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

The twenty-seco(nd) Its' (possessive) It's- it is (abv)
The cat's playing. (abv)
The cats' toy. (possessive)
The cats are playing. (plural)

Where is this teacher from?


Hold it, Halsey. Cats' means "belonging to the cats." It is a plural possessive. Cat's is the correct way to express "belonging to the cat," singular.

It's is a contraction of "it is," not an abbreviation.

There is no such thing as its'. The cat's playing could describe how the cat sounds on the piano ("Man, that cat can cut a groove") but not much else.

(in reply to Halsey)
Post #: 21
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 8:01:24 PM   
Pustov

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		American English is Illogical.... and it also sucks.

(in reply to MadmanRick)
Post #: 22
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 8:02:13 PM   
Pier5

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: Portsmouth, Virginia
Status: offline 		At last! Now we know who taught Brady to spell.

Pier5

(in reply to DrewMatrix)
Post #: 23
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 8:04:00 PM   
DrewMatrix


Posts: 1429
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline 		The Ultimate Authority on United States English (there are different rules of grammar in British English and any Brit here can chime in on the final authority on British English) is:

"Elements of Style" by Strunk and White. But "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" is lots funnier

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Post #: 24
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 8:05:04 PM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

The twenty-seco(nd) Its' (possessive) It's- it is (abv)
The cat's playing. (abv)
The cats' toy. (possessive)
The cats are playing. (plural)

Where is this teacher from?


Hold it, Halsey. Cats' means "belonging to the cats." It is a plural possessive. Cat's is the correct way to express "belonging to the cat," singular.

It's is a contraction of "it is," not an abbreviation.

There is no such thing as its'. The cat's playing could describe how the cat sounds on the piano ("Man, that cat can cut a groove") but not much else.


Yup, same mistake as made before. While plural possessives will place the apostrophe after the "s", e.g., the birds' wings (or the cats' toy), it don't happen that way with its. "Its" is the possessive form of it, and there aren't no apostrophe.

Note that, as Pasternatski pointed out, its and it's are kind of the exception. Contractions and singular possessives are usually done the same way: "cat's" could either be a contraction of "cat is" or the possessive form of cat. Thus, "The cat's dead meat" could mean that cat is dead meat or we may discussing the dead meat belonging to the cat. Hypothetically, speaking of course, in medieval English and even in some Gallic tongues, the term cat . . . never mind.

< Message edited by byron13 -- 9/30/2004 6:23:17 PM >

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Post #: 25
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 8:05:44 PM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		Ya know, Knaust, you have absolutely, positively come to the wrong place for advice on grammar.

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Post #: 26
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 8:07:40 PM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		Just a quick aside on its. Its is always singular, of course. The plural third-party pronoun possessive that requires an object is "their."

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Post #: 27
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 8:09:01 PM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		Me fail English? That unpossible.

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Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

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Post #: 28
Disgraceful was: English grammar - 9/30/2004 8:11:20 PM   
DrewMatrix


Posts: 1429
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline 		Do you realize we are all so bored, sitting here waiting for the 1.30 patch, that we are actually discussing spelling and punctuation?

< Message edited by Beezle -- 9/30/2004 6:11:39 PM >

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Post #: 29
RE: Off Topic: English grammar - 9/30/2004 8:11:49 PM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

Just a quick aside on its. Its is always singular, of course. The plural third-party pronoun possessive that requires an object is "their."


Not to be confused with "they're" . . .

< Message edited by byron13 -- 9/30/2004 6:28:21 PM >

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Post #: 30
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