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NO INTERNET PLAY!!! - 7/21/2001 11:24:00 AM   
Lord_Enforcer

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/21/2001
From: New Smyrna Beach, Florida USA
Status: offline 		Come on Guys....you have to have this feature included...it isn't 1990 anymore..without internet play ....mman I just don't know. Granted the game will still be reat I am sure..but comeo on,there is nothing like real time chatting and destruction of an american player.... WILL INTERNET PLAY EVER BE AVAL? thanks, Tom :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

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Post #: 1
- 7/21/2001 12:50:00 PM   
David Heath


Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline 		Hi Tom We have not set this in stone. We game is really coming along. The problem is that the design may not really allow for this. In either case give it some time and we see.

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Post #: 2
- 7/22/2001 5:29:00 PM   
Ramjet

 

Posts: 143
Joined: 2/19/2001
From: Charleston, SC. USA
Status: offline 		Really Tom, how often will anyone play a turn based wargame on the internet? Give me a good play-by-email routine and I'm happy!

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Post #: 3
- 7/22/2001 7:38:00 PM   
Lord_Enforcer

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/21/2001
From: New Smyrna Beach, Florida USA
Status: offline 		Well if you have freinds that live too far away to play hot seat PLENTY....and PBEM..is not that fun...please gimme a break!!! star trek :botf is turn based and a good game...there are many turn based internet games.PBEM is stale and very vanilla ,I know of 8 to 10 guys right now that would play and buy this game if it were internet...bu they have already said :"Play by mail...forget it" So you can have your stale PBEM...this is the new millenium...if you don't support internet you are dead.It doesn't matter if it is real-time or turn-based. This game isn't for 15 yr olds and the age bracket is probably 25-50..well how many 25-50 year olds are gonna do hot seat? I would venture to say not many and sure some will play by mail..but once again STALE and VANILLA.

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Post #: 4
- 7/22/2001 9:01:00 PM   
Warpup

 

Posts: 120
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Roseburg, Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		I totally agree with Ramjet. Turn based PBEM is fine with me. I don't like "real time strategy", which seems like an oxymoron to me. "Real time" is for tactics, not strategy. I don't know what the meaning is of an internet turn based game that is not PBEM. If that just means there is some kind of automatic PBEM feature instead of the file manipulation that goes with PBEM, I would have no problem with it. Living on the West Coast of the USA, and having gamer friends in Poland and New Zealand, I just can't imagine playing "real time" and PBEM is the only way to go. I dream of an intense multi-player game such as Empires in Arms that can be played by sending in turns each day and having a computer execute the results and e-mail them back to the players. But that's such a fantasy... :(

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Post #: 5
- 7/22/2001 9:50:00 PM   
Tomanbeg

 

Posts: 4385
Joined: 7/14/2000
From: Memphis, Tn, CSA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Lord_Enforcer: Well if you have freinds that live too far away to play hot seat PLENTY....and PBEM..is not that fun...please gimme a break!!! star trek :botf is turn based and a good game...there are many turn based internet games.PBEM is stale and very vanilla ,I know of 8 to 10 guys right now that would play and buy this game if it were internet...bu they have already said :"Play by mail...forget it" So you can have your stale PBEM...this is the new millenium...if you don't support internet you are dead.It doesn't matter if it is real-time or turn-based. This game isn't for 15 yr olds and the age bracket is probably 25-50..well how many 25-50 year olds are gonna do hot seat? I would venture to say not many and sure some will play by mail..but once again STALE and VANILLA.
Bull! One day you'se guys will grow up. The reflexes will slow, the eyesight gets less keen, and you will discover spomething called a thought process. It is like thinking only longer and more intense. At which point the game will change from seeing how many things you can shoot, blow up, maim kill or otherwise destroy, to one of outwitting your opponent. I hope somewhere along the journey you discover patience. T.

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Post #: 6
- 7/22/2001 10:41:00 PM   
Ramjet

 

Posts: 143
Joined: 2/19/2001
From: Charleston, SC. USA
Status: offline 		I think the crowd sides with me Tom. My point was that although an internet option would certainly be nice, I probably would never use it. I wouldn't want to see other gaming functions go the wayside so I can sit on my computer while my opponent takes two hours to make his move! I also would not want to delay the release of these games any longer, I'm already climbing the walls after looking at the latest screen shots!

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Post #: 7
- 7/23/2001 12:50:00 AM   
Lord_Enforcer

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/21/2001
From: New Smyrna Beach, Florida USA
Status: offline 		This is what I am saying...first and foremost I am total strategy..ever since Carrier Force and Carriers at war for the C-64..so don't talk to me about turn-based strategy because I have been there and done that for many years and I still long for it.First off you can have real-time turn based!!! I HATE stright real-time tactics games.The game Star Trek the next generation:birth of the federation is an excellent example..and it combines-olonization,conquest,R and D,Diplomacy,combat you name it and it is turn-based....I have many freinds that would love to play real time so you can chat to each other and witness things as they unfold...not this vanilla PBEM crap :) It reminds me of the late 80's and trust me without internet..sure some ppl will play but you will be missing the boat on a ton of money to be made.I will probably play it either way but I wish it had internet,I mean we are not in the trs-80 days anymore,everyone here needs to realize that and understand If you are designing a game to make some good revenue and do well It has to have internet play,I am looking at the big picture here not just the 5 ppl who respond.....You can't possible think the game will do as good as if it had internet support (if you do please don't insult me or the board with your intelligence level).... This is not directed at anyone in specific and especially not matrix,I am just trying to make a point here!!! this is not a flame..I am just ranting a bit,so I am sorry..

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Post #: 8
- 7/23/2001 1:32:00 AM   
Lord_Enforcer

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/21/2001
From: New Smyrna Beach, Florida USA
Status: offline 		and OH YEAH Tomanbeg...I look forward to one day my IJA and IJN teaching you the fundementals or a thought process and pateince as you watch your american fleet and men beg for mercy on the battlefields and open oceans of uncommon valor :) :D

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Post #: 9
- 7/23/2001 7:42:00 AM   
MacCready

 

Posts: 591
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: USA
Status: offline 		Consider this too, there are a ton of computer games that are internet compatible that nobody bothers to play... concerning Star Trek_BOTF I have it an continue to play it,but mostly solo against the computer. It takes a really really long time to play a game online.My BOTF limit is about 2 hours a week now because there's just too much really good gaming software out there. I will purchase Uncommon Valor regardless of what play options are availible.

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Post #: 10
- 7/23/2001 7:49:00 AM   
David Heath


Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline 		Hi Guys Let me put some of Matrix ideas into play here. PBEM: I not a big fan of this type of play myself. But the most wargamers like this the best. PBEM can not be beat when it comes to long overseas gaming. Matrix has built a PBEM server in it Opponents registry. You can upload turns to the server and the Opponents Registry will notify both you and your opponent when turns are ready. It also helps weed out the play until I start to lose players. Our system keeps a record of all the games you play and how well you do in keeping on time and finishing your games. Internet Play: Alot of gamers think this is a bad way to play the fact is its the best way to play. It does have some limits, like time difference. If you are more then 4+ apart PBEM will fit you better. We play like we use to do in our old table top wargame club. We meet online every Thursday night around 9:00pm and play for two - three hours weekly. While we each do I turn we talk via a headphone set the entire time. Just like the old days. When we run out of time we just save our game and load it up once we are ready to play again next week. What is really nice is no counters to lose or worry about getting bumped. When you play over the internet you can get a lot of turns during in a 2 or 3 hour sitting. We are hoping to to get Internet play into our release of Uncommon Valor. So please keep the debate going.

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Post #: 11
- 7/23/2001 9:40:00 AM   
madflava13


Posts: 1530
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Alexandria, VA
Status: offline 		PBEM is just fine by me... These games will take way way too long to play over the internet... It would be nice, but I also play against people in vastly different time zones - I am not going to get myself up at 4am to play because thats when my opponent is on his lunch break... I say skip internet play, keep it PBEM, and if 10-15 people choose not to buy, so be it. The rest of us still will, I'm sure.

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Post #: 12
- 7/23/2001 9:49:00 AM   
Lord_Enforcer

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/21/2001
From: New Smyrna Beach, Florida USA
Status: offline 		That is why you play for 1-3 hours then save it...wow what a novel idea...then the next day or week you play your saved game....

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Post #: 13
- 7/23/2001 10:14:00 AM   
MacCready

 

Posts: 591
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: USA
Status: offline 		Yea, It's fine to save internet games and restart them,but I myself prefer to play an entire battle (SPWAW)16-21 turns in five or six hours over the internet.Thats fun!! Sadly most players dont have anywhere near that much time to devote to the game. :rolleyes: [ July 22, 2001: Message edited by: MacCready ]

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Post #: 14
- 7/24/2001 12:57:00 PM   
moore4807


Posts: 1089
Joined: 6/2/2000
From: Punta Gorda FL
Status: offline 		Lord, I hear ya but I cant agree with ya... If you have the time (as I DID in my Trash 80 days) I understand some of what you are pointing out. Having done table tops and PBEM, the main drawback is time wasted, I was part of the PBEM trial groups we tried PacWar on- it fizzled after 3 weeks or so because IMHO too many people were involved (3-4 per side)and simply took too long to get everyone together. I HAVE played 2 complete PacWar games with an local area player and it was fantastic, we did something similar to David H. and were online waiting for each others turns to complete... now emailing PBEM was slow but steady and no loss of game data. Online is always tricky unless you have autosave feature like Diablo II by Blizzard. All that said you ARE entitled to your beliefs and rights to say em, just recognize some of us out here HAVE as much experience and knowledge of the "old way" as you, and we still see some value in it-even if you dont... Think about it Jim

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Post #: 15
- 7/24/2001 10:12:00 PM   
David Heath


Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline 		We are hoping to put into play a feature that allows you to start either a PBEM or Internet game then save it and then restart in the other play style. So two gamers start a PBEM game do a few turns and then they both a Friday night free take the last save game and start it has Internet game play for a few hours and then go back to PBEM. Also the Internet game will allow you to Plot your turn at the time (with or without a timer) once the timer runs out the game would execute.

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Post #: 16
- 7/24/2001 11:14:00 PM   
Dunedain

 

Posts: 224
Joined: 4/4/2000
Status: offline 		David, that sounds much like Combat Mission's system. Which is a good thing, since CM has the best play options I've ever seen. :) You can play direct connect or PBEM, you can save the game anytime and resume in either direct connect or PBEM and switch back and forth all you like. And the whole thing is passworded in such a way that you can't cheat. In a PBEM game, for example, after you have given your orders for the turn, the results are calculated, but you don't get to see them until after you have sent the file to your opponent and he has seen them, this way you can't keep re-processing the turn in hopes of better results, because you have no idea what the results will be, anyhow. This makes CM basically cheat proof and I hope UV and WitP will also be cheat proof like this. And if the game would ever crash during a direct connect, the game will automatically save the latest turn to a file for later resumption. Gotta love it. If you can make UV and the new War in the Pacific use a system like this, that would be great. :)

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Post #: 17
- 8/4/2001 2:44:00 AM   
Supervisor

 

Posts: 5166
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		This conversation seems to be proceeding as if the two options were mutually exclusive. Incorporation of both features would certainly satisfy all, and satisfied customers generally translate to higher profit margins.

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Post #: 18
- 8/9/2001 11:31:00 PM   
Reiryc

 

Posts: 4991
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline 		I agree with headsup.... I say, if possible allow both internet and pbem. If it comes down to one or the other then unfortunately I would have to say pbem, simply because that is what most of the gamers that play this type of game prefer. Having a system in which you can switch back and forth sounds great....would be a good way to get some of these set in their ways "grandpa's" to try something different with the easy out of going back to pbem if the change is just too much for them to cope with....=) Reiryc

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Post #: 19
- 9/20/2001 1:28:00 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by David Heath:
Hi Guys Let me put some of Matrix ideas into play here. PBEM: I not a big fan of this type of play myself. But the most wargamers like this the best. PBEM can not be beat when it comes to long overseas gaming. Matrix has built a PBEM server in it Opponents registry. You can upload turns to the server and the Opponents Registry will notify both you and your opponent when turns are ready. It also helps weed out the play until I start to lose players. Our system keeps a record of all the games you play and how well you do in keeping on time and finishing your games. Internet Play: Alot of gamers think this is a bad way to play the fact is its the best way to play. It does have some limits, like time difference. If you are more then 4+ apart PBEM will fit you better. We play like we use to do in our old table top wargame club. We meet online every Thursday night around 9:00pm and play for two - three hours weekly. While we each do I turn we talk via a headphone set the entire time. Just like the old days. When we run out of time we just save our game and load it up once we are ready to play again next week. What is really nice is no counters to lose or worry about getting bumped. When you play over the internet you can get a lot of turns during in a 2 or 3 hour sitting.
We are hoping to to get Internet play into our release of Uncommon Valor. So please keep the debate going.
David I have to agree with you about the difference between PBEM and Internet play, personaly I prefer Internet Games because I hate getting out of my seat when playing 'hot seat'. When you are waiting for your opponet to complete his turn it is nice to be able to look over the game and make plans. Which you can not do in a 'hot seat' game just like with board games you look at the map and your units and make plans.

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Post #: 20
- 9/21/2001 3:09:00 AM   
Supervisor

 

Posts: 5166
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		Very good comments in the last post. I think even the most casual observer would agree that this is not a one size fits all entertainment media. The fact that this outstanding digital format allows the best of both methods opens a very real marketing opportunity for any company that chooses to incorporate both methods as a standard of excellence consumers can count on in all releases.

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Post #: 21
- 9/21/2001 6:46:00 AM   
Zakhal


Posts: 2494
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Jyväskylä, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Lord_Enforcer:
This is what I am saying...first and foremost I am total strategy..ever since Carrier Force and Carriers at war for the C-64..so don't talk to me about turn-based strategy because I have been there and done that for many years and I still long for it.First off you can have real-time turn based!!! I HATE stright real-time tactics games.The game Star Trek the next generation:birth of the federation is an excellent example..and it combines-olonization,conquest,R and D,Diplomacy,combat you name it and it is turn-based....I have many freinds that would love to play real time so you can chat to each other and witness things as they unfold...not this vanilla PBEM crap
It reminds me of the late 80's and trust me without internet..sure some ppl will play but you will be missing the boat on a ton of money to be made.I will probably play it either way but I wish it had internet,I mean we are not in the trs-80 days anymore,everyone here needs to realize that and understand If you are designing a game to make some good revenue and do well It has to have internet play,I am looking at the big picture here not just the 5 ppl who respond.....You can't possible think the game will do as good as if it had internet support (if you do please don't insult me or the board with your intelligence level).... This is not directed at anyone in specific and especially not matrix,I am just trying to make a point here!!! this is not a flame..I am just ranting a bit,so I am sorry..
You can play fast even with email. Ive often done that with spwaw, 15min turns plus 1min for emailing the thingie. Voil@!

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