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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Decisive Battles: Battles in Normandy >> cost Page: [1]
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cost - 10/9/2004 10:07:22 PM   
supertankerr

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 7/5/2003
Status: offline 		I am a little taken back by the cost of Battles in Normandy. It's price tag of $59.95 would be more than enough considering that it is a sequel to the original game that sold for a TOTAL cost of $49.95, but thats only if you just download it. If you choose to buy it on disk because you only have dial up internet access, which many do, a person is looking at a wopping $69.95. For a sequel! This seems excessive and from a marketing standpoint a self defeating practice as it seems to punish those who are not about to download such huge files on a dial up. As one who makes a living at marketing I really think Matrix and SSG need to rethink their marketing strategy here. They would probably more than make up the revenue loss by extra orders if they just dropped their price by $10.
Post #: 1
RE: cost - 10/9/2004 11:53:34 PM   
Hartford688

 

Posts: 261
Joined: 3/23/2004
From: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Please see:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=709348

The 99 posts on the thread above cover this topic in exhaustive detail.

< Message edited by Hartford688 -- 10/9/2004 11:02:25 PM >

(in reply to supertankerr)
Post #: 2
RE: cost - 10/10/2004 7:33:53 AM   
cesteman


Posts: 845
Joined: 2/15/2004
From: San Luis Obispo, CA
Status: offline 		Why not go to Kinko's and download it there? They have a high speed connection. Save it to a disk and your done!!!!
Christian

(in reply to Hartford688)
Post #: 3
RE: cost - 10/10/2004 6:04:37 PM   
mbMike

 

Posts: 174
Joined: 4/26/2004
From: Kaiserslautern, Germany
Status: offline 		To me it's a pride issue. Sure I can afford to spend $70USD on a video GAME, but I'm not going to pay roughly 29% to 43% overcharge because it's a niche product. That's highway robbery. And quite frankly it's dissapointing to see Matrix take this road. I've been waiting for "Combat Leader" for 5 years now and that's the whole reason I'm here, and I know they are going to charge AT LEAST $69.99USD for it, probably more. And I won't buy it for that much.

I wanted to buy War in the Pacific - But I couldn't stand the price and bought something else.

I wanted to buy Battles in Normandy - But I couldn't stand the price and bought something else.

I really want to buy Combat Leader - But I know I won't be able to stomach that price either.

Matrix has family mouths to feed? Well, so do I, Matrix can go ef themselves.

(in reply to cesteman)
Post #: 4
RE: cost - 10/10/2004 7:39:14 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		I will pay out the noe for CL as its a game I really really want. BiN is a game I'd like to play but not at the price its marketed at. However mnay people really really want to play it so the pay it.

Same with GoA I'm hoping it will be priced around about the same as CotD. However if its more again I will pay it.

I feel the price cuts out alot of people from trying these games. Its a real shame as cutsomers are being lost. It would be interesting to know how many would have bought the games (BiN and WiTP) who didnt buy due to price. Then work out whether the price of the games could have been less as the amount sold would have offset it. Alot of would be wargamers who want to try the game but arent willing to spend so much will be lost to MAtrix.

(in reply to mbMike)
Post #: 5
RE: cost - 10/10/2004 7:52:39 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mbMike
To me it's a pride issue. Sure I can afford to spend $70USD on a video GAME, but I'm not going to pay roughly 29% to 43% overcharge because it's a niche product. That's highway robbery. And quite frankly it's dissapointing to see Matrix take this road. I've been waiting for "Combat Leader" for 5 years now and that's the whole reason I'm here, and I know they are going to charge AT LEAST $69.99USD for it, probably more. And I won't buy it for that much.
Matrix has family mouths to feed? Well, so do I, Matrix can go ef themselves.


We price our games where they need to be to allow continued development. This is not a luxury surcharge for us to fund our yachts. We discuss our prices with our developers and every price has their agreement as well. From both sides, these prices are necessary. The volume at the lower prices that you advocate is not sufficient to keep computer wargaming thriving. Ultimately, everyone has to make their choice - we don't want to lose any customers because of the extra $10 that is required, but we know we will.

We strive to make the extra price worthwhile, as does SSG in this case. The inclusion of an updated Ardennes Offensive and a fully documented and tested scenario editor in the same package should constitute some additional value for you. The digital delivery allows for instant access to the game once you've bought it and shipment has been updated to include trackable options and "game box on demand" for those who want a permanent nicely printed box for storage.

The market has been changing for wargaming for some time and for all PC Games in the last two or three years (particularly in retail). We aren't the only ones saying this, but we're trying to bring you great wargames - as good as any that have ever been made for the computer - within that context. Instead of "effing" us, why not give us a break? Thanks anyway for reading this.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to mbMike)
Post #: 6
RE: cost - 10/10/2004 9:33:25 PM   
Hartford688

 

Posts: 261
Joined: 3/23/2004
From: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hartford688

Please see:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=709348

The 99 posts on the thread above cover this topic in exhaustive detail.


Another 4 posts on this topic. Not to say the comments are not reasonable and fair - everyone should have an opinion (apart from maybe telling people who make things you want to eff off) but the topic has been thrashed to death, no?

(in reply to Hartford688)
Post #: 7
RE: cost - 10/10/2004 9:51:39 PM   
mbMike

 

Posts: 174
Joined: 4/26/2004
From: Kaiserslautern, Germany
Status: offline 		The problem with Matrix Games is, while you started off as a "Developer" (of Combat Leader and Close Assault) you turned into "Producers" which makes Matrix just a middle man that needs to charge a high overhead to make yourselves money.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 8
RE: cost - 10/10/2004 10:28:55 PM   
Hartford688

 

Posts: 261
Joined: 3/23/2004
From: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Last thing I saw on the website Erik and crew were putting in the hours to churn out the games for folks to play. And they need to make money just for going that? *gasp*. The rats. I'm never buying a thing again.

Sorry for being sarky. You have a perfect right to your opinion, and Matrix may (or may not) be overcharging. That is their right, and it may work out for them (or not). Your right is to not buy the games.

(in reply to mbMike)
Post #: 9
RE: cost - 10/10/2004 10:58:02 PM   
Clipper1968


Posts: 445
Joined: 7/22/2004
From: LA, Ca
Status: offline 		A little bit calmness please.
IMHO when you are really interesting in a game you are ready to pay a fair price for it.There are not so much good wargames available...Everyone can complain about the price and I am not certainly the last even if at the end I will purchase the game as I did for BIN because I am not a blind customer.
Just an example:
I am fascinating by the Revolutionary and Empire era, that's why I bought LGAA (another wargame published by Matrix) three or four years ago for approximatively 70 € and unfortunately it was really a disappointed game...Just to show you that I am ready to pay a fair price for a game which could grip me!You should also consider the investment in a global perspective.

@Hartford688

Amsterdam is a very nice place and I like this country as I have been living for three years in the Netherlands, more presicely in Delft, when I was young.and I am still young...

_____________________________

"s'instruire pour vaincre"

(in reply to Hartford688)
Post #: 10
RE: cost - 10/10/2004 11:11:18 PM   
Hartford688

 

Posts: 261
Joined: 3/23/2004
From: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Status: offline 		[replaced]

< Message edited by Hartford688 -- 10/10/2004 10:16:42 PM >

(in reply to Clipper1968)
Post #: 11
RE: cost - 10/10/2004 11:16:05 PM   
Hartford688

 

Posts: 261
Joined: 3/23/2004
From: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hartford688

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pumba1968

A little bit calmness please.

@Hartford688

Amsterdam is a very nice place and I like this country as I have been living for three years in the Netherlands, more presicely in Delft, when I was young.and I am still young...




You're right about the calmness. Apologies to all and especially mbMike. Out of line of me. How nice of you about The Netherlands. I am very fond of Paris (and the Rhone valley) myself.

< Message edited by Hartford688 -- 10/10/2004 10:24:14 PM >

(in reply to Hartford688)
Post #: 12
RE: cost - 10/11/2004 7:14:16 AM   
toddt

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 10/1/2004
Status: offline 		I felt the same way about the price.

Oh well. They picked the right one for me. I finally gave in and bought BIN, even though I think it's too much. I guess that's the definition of the right price, at least in my case.

He he.

You guys suck so good.

;)

Hope we get a lot of play-time out of BIN!

But I have to tell you, we would GO DOWN THE LIST and buy EVERY product from you if the prices were inline with "normal" software. :) We like the quality of product you produce, but for the titles that are just "interesting" to us but not critical, it is way too much to speculate on.

tt

(in reply to Hartford688)
Post #: 13
RE: cost - 10/11/2004 9:12:58 AM   
PresbyterJohn

 

Posts: 136
Joined: 5/1/2004
Status: offline 		"Normal" software, like WordPerfect Office? I actually have the more expensive MS Office, but I don't use it everyday for a couple of hours like I do with turn-a-day BiN games. Consider the price of another good game like Hitman Contracts for relative pricing value, and how long your dollar value lasts.

(in reply to toddt)
Post #: 14
RE: cost - 10/12/2004 6:29:10 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

We strive to make the extra price worthwhile, as does SSG... We aren't the only ones saying this, but we're trying to bring you great wargames - as good as any that have ever been made for the computer....

- Erik


I think that's the key point Erik. Is BiN a game that provides immense value in terms of gameplay, research and stability? I now believe it does.

As a consumer I'm crazy for saying this but whilst I'd like to see BiN and all future Matrix developments around $50AUD and not $70-90AUD, I'm happy that I've found value for the dollar with BiN. War in the Pacfic unfortunately whilst providing to be a font of research in the form of its database has sorely diappointed me in terms of rulebook and bugs. Especially after UV. Hence, I'm sorry to say that 2by3 has lost my impulse buy for the future.

SSG on the other hand, having answered some questions here and with a BiN rulebook slightly more "stable" in content, has won my respect with this title. It has proven its value through actual game play (the hopeful porting of Korsun Pocket to its standard, will definitely see further good will in the market too).

BiN possesses a very aggressive AI and beautiful components brought together by a thoroughly user-friendly interface. So Erik I wouldn't worry about comparing it to other PC war game efforts, I'd feel confident enough to compare it to the better BOARD gaming efforts

Would I for example now feel better investing $90AUD in BiN rather than $110 for GDW's Ardennes 44, $115 MMP's Bitter Woods, $99 DOW's Memoir 44, $88 MMP's Monty's Gamble?, $110 L2P's Revised Russian Campaign! or $120 for any of APL's Panzer Grenadier games (all prices AUD)? Yes. BiN is a great regimental "board game for the PC" with FOW and a sound AI opponent. Much better than pushing around cardboard solitaire.

How do I rationalize the cost of printed boards, die cut counters, dice, charts, mounted/unmounted map boards, big boxes etc., being closely akin to BiN's digital download price? I can't. Hence my dilemma as a consumer. But as someone quite rightly once pointed out - what is the cost of a year's programming, cross platform compatibility, feature enhancement and testing? Things that are intangible but obviously have a labor cost in this digital market? A new concept for the consumer to think about...

Basically Matrix is forcing the buying public to take a great risk with its new and unproven titles at full price on release. Some such as myself will and have, taken that risk. Hence, speaking for myself, where I feel burned, the relevant design house will lose all future impulse buys. Where the risk has paid off, the impulse buy for successive ventures will remain. It may take two purchases to establish this trend - but that could be two purchases via Matrix in total too...

So this pricing policy is all about risk for the buying public. But it is a policy as I've tried to point out, that will for the most part see a consumer take the risk just once or twice per design house - and possibly with Matrix in total. Had BiN been a bummer, that would have been pretty much it in a broad sense.

As an example about quality and price, the other day I bought Rome Total War - but only on the basis that I was able to haggle with the store and obtain a price $20AUD below the shelf sticker. Why wasn't I prepared to pay full price? Because Shogun and Medievil Total War out of the box and after their first patches were faulty. Shogun remains faulty to this day.

Now RTW is showing promise - also requiring more than a casual amount of time to thoroughly play, so on my shelf it sits but above War in the Pacific for a holiday coming up (BiN is my gaming fare for now )

Point is, the Total War franchise had let me down in the past. And for want of $20AUD it was a case of sale now or "thank you but I've been burned before". Digital Download whilst making the purchasing process more convenient for some also makes it easy to say "No!" No haggling to be had with a download

My $.02 guys but BiN is a title worth getting behind for pure game play vis other war games at its price.

We maybe should be talking to Matrix about value adding in the future - more scens, historical guides, play guides etc.

Adam.

< Message edited by Adam Parker -- 10/12/2004 2:32:45 PM >

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 15
RE: cost - 10/12/2004 3:33:16 PM   
PresbyterJohn

 

Posts: 136
Joined: 5/1/2004
Status: offline 		The distribution of electronic entertainment media is going to undergo a bit of a revolution as people buy access to what they want to see and hear without "owning" anything other than an account. I wonder how this technology will change how people get access to games like this and how much that access will cost.

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 16
RE: cost - 10/13/2004 12:43:27 AM   
eMonticello


Posts: 525
Joined: 3/15/2002
Status: offline 		News article about Games on Demand...

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5388739/

A few cable companies are marketing this concept today...

http://www.comcast.net/gamesondemand/index.html

And here's Yahoo's entry.

http://gamesondemand.yahoo.com/play/allgames_nl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prester John

The distribution of electronic entertainment media is going to undergo a bit of a revolution as people buy access to what they want to see and hear without "owning" anything other than an account. I wonder how this technology will change how people get access to games like this and how much that access will cost.


_____________________________


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example. -- Pudd'nhead Wilson

(in reply to PresbyterJohn)
Post #: 17
RE: cost - 10/13/2004 1:17:04 AM   
PresbyterJohn

 

Posts: 136
Joined: 5/1/2004
Status: offline 		The concept of pay to play has been around for a while and games on demand has been around for a good number of months. How will those concepts affect games this BiN, a game similar to chess where players take turns, can stare at the board for a long time while offline, and play at the rate of a turn every day or three.

< Message edited by Prester John -- 10/12/2004 11:17:21 PM >

(in reply to eMonticello)
Post #: 18
RE: cost - 10/13/2004 5:46:46 AM   
eMonticello


Posts: 525
Joined: 3/15/2002
Status: offline 		One possible impact would be on creating a very secure fully-functional demo. Since games on demand requires a thin-client plug-in to work, a software producer could offer a game based on the tutorial with very little risk, since no executable data is transmitted to the client computer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prester John

The concept of pay to play has been around for a while and games on demand has been around for a good number of months. How will those concepts affect games this BiN, a game similar to chess where players take turns, can stare at the board for a long time while offline, and play at the rate of a turn every day or three.


_____________________________


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example. -- Pudd'nhead Wilson

(in reply to PresbyterJohn)
Post #: 19
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