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What is best defence against night bombing

 
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What is best defence against night bombing - 10/15/2004 2:33:20 AM   
pfnognoff


Posts: 631
Joined: 5/6/2003
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi,

In my current PBeM game (still just February 1942) there has been a bit too much night bombing missions flown succesfully by both sides. I have had Chineese bombers (even the big ones) flying without losses and even scoring hits. You can just imagine what is IJN airforce doing to my airfields then At the moment I never stay at the same airfield for more then a day in big numbers, because if he sees me he will come the next night and my numbers will not be so big anymore... I have tried putting up a night LRCAP over my own airfield but the bombers did more damage to the ground targets then my fighters did to them. There just isn't enough operational losses for all those ACs flying at night without proper equipment. It seems you don't even need dedicated ACs equiped for night flying that come later in the game. Even fatigue for flying at night seems to come out lower then for flying daytime LRCAP.

Any tips or ideas? I did the a saerch on the forum but failed to produce any usefull hits (unlike those pesky Sallys and Lillys )

Thanks.
Post #: 1
RE: What is best defence against night bombing - 10/15/2004 3:07:48 AM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		As the allies, just wait for night fighters to arrive. As the IJ suck it up. Nothing works. You are defensless. The whole dang allied air force will only strike at night and destroy you and you are defenseless against it.

(in reply to pfnognoff)
Post #: 2
RE: What is best defence against night bombing - 10/15/2004 3:08:19 AM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		Havent seen any mention of night bombing really, so probably nothing to find. I havent tried night bombing, I assumed you needed better trained crews for that. And the Computer hasnt launched any either.

(in reply to pfnognoff)
Post #: 3
RE: What is best defence against night bombing - 10/15/2004 6:03:30 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		pray for rain, it stops me cold when attemptingthe night raider move

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Post #: 4
RE: What is best defence against night bombing - 10/15/2004 7:45:43 AM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		Night bombing is the only way to go. Little fatigue, low flak casualties, low OP losses, immunity to CAP. Wait till the bombers are in the 80+ Exp range! Any ships caught in port get slaughtered. Weather is the only thing that stops it.

_____________________________


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Post #: 5
RE: What is best defence against night bombing - 10/15/2004 8:38:01 AM   
pfnognoff


Posts: 631
Joined: 5/6/2003
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Night bombing is the only way to go. Little fatigue, low flak casualties, low OP losses, immunity to CAP. Wait till the bombers are in the 80+ Exp range! Any ships caught in port get slaughtered. Weather is the only thing that stops it.


But isn't this something that needs to be tweaked a wee bit? More operational losses more fatigue more missions aborted... It seems silly to even produce dedicated night OPs capable AC if all you need is a few good men in an old bucket and a clear night with a bit of moonlight?

(in reply to Halsey)
Post #: 6
RE: What is best defence against night bombing - 10/15/2004 10:00:04 AM   
pauk


Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline 		I agree. Now in our game, the both of us are becoming grasshopers trying to relocate air power from unsafe to safe bases.

Hey men, this killing a game...

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Post #: 7
RE: What is best defence against night bombing - 10/15/2004 10:07:53 AM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		Oh it is something that should be looked very hard at. Before I had to give up my PBEM games, I almost was ready to cry foul as the Japanese. Of course my opponent was being nice after the first 2-3 times he butchered me at night with a port raid. We decided that it was an exploit or problem.

Basically, just face the fact that the Japanese are in no way in the same league as the Germans at night air defense. Or any other air defense at that rate.

(in reply to pauk)
Post #: 8
RE: What is best defence against night bombing - 10/15/2004 10:40:52 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Night bombing should not be restricted perse, just the effectiveness should drop considerably and drawbacks should include a marginally higher fatigue and morale penalty and substantially increased ops losses. There should be a "can't find target" result as with naval strikes as well.

Until this is addressed, I would insist on a house rule restricting night bombing as it would be a "gamey" exploit.

< Message edited by Ron Saueracker -- 10/15/2004 3:41:42 AM >

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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

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Post #: 9
RE: What is best defence against night bombing - 10/15/2004 12:12:38 PM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline 		I haven't tested but was under the impression that AA units help alot?

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Post #: 10
RE: What is best defence against night bombing - 10/15/2004 12:32:46 PM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		Flak does negligable damage. OP losses should be higher, and not finding the target should be addressed. (See Ron's post)

Setting up a house rule may be the only way to offset this. At least until it gets tuned up some in a patch.

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Post #: 11
RE: What is best defence against night bombing - 10/15/2004 12:37:18 PM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		I have packed in 6 AA battalions and 1 AA regiment into Kendari and the most I have damaged in one raid was 3 a/c. They in turn hit the resources 38 times, pounded the airfield and supply.

Did not seem to help me any.

And these were Blenheims at 10,000 feet.

< Message edited by 2ndACR -- 10/15/2004 4:38:25 AM >

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Post #: 12
RE: What is best defence against night bombing - 10/15/2004 1:35:17 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		It was mentioned in another thread that non night units be limited to CITY ATTACK only if targeting land based targets. Fill your boots in set to naval. Great suggestion.

_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to 2ndACR)
Post #: 13
RE: What is best defence against night bombing - 10/15/2004 3:42:05 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		Hmmm, another UV problem transfered into WitP.

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 14
RE: What is best defence against night bombing - 10/15/2004 6:46:10 PM   
pfnognoff


Posts: 631
Joined: 5/6/2003
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
quote:



Basically, just face the fact that the Japanese are in no way in the same league as the Germans at night air defense. Or any other air defense at that rate.


Actually, in our game it is the Japanese doing the damage in the Rangoon area and China. I tried puting up Hurricane night LRCAP but they did marginal damage (can't say how much because of the night combat animation bug) to the attacking Sallies and Lilies. And some of them didn't even fly and were damaged/destroyed on the field. I had just two squadrons both on night LRCAP at that point. That was when I started thinking about the procedure being wrong.

Edit:

If they can precision bomb my AC on the ground, LRCAP should at least kill some of them. It seems that the nights are just not dark enough for the attacker.

P.S. I like the idea about city bombing house rule for night attacks. It will make the daytime combat a possibility again, because the fighters can survive the night.

< Message edited by pfnognoff -- 10/15/2004 5:50:06 PM >

(in reply to 2ndACR)
Post #: 15
RE: What is best defence against night bombing - 10/15/2004 7:49:34 PM   
kaiser73


Posts: 394
Joined: 7/28/2004
Status: offline 		city attack only doesn't resolve the issue of too much accuracy too few op losses though.

As ally, you can destroy all the resource centers Japan so desperately need just with night bombing. Seems to me little odd, expecially early in the game.

(in reply to pfnognoff)
Post #: 16
RE: What is best defence against night bombing - 10/16/2004 5:43:07 AM   
esteban


Posts: 618
Joined: 7/21/2004
Status: offline 		Yep, I guess we have to house rule non-city raid night bombing out of existence. I hate doing it, because it should have some use, but right now, it is just too powerful.

(in reply to kaiser73)
Post #: 17
RE: What is best defence against night bombing - 10/17/2004 11:39:09 PM   
BlackVoid


Posts: 639
Joined: 10/17/2003
Status: offline 		I have to agree that this is a "game-killer" feature. My PBEM oppenent almost exclusively bombs at night (as Japan). I am thinking about doing the same.

BUT this will make the game totally unreal.

My vote is for more op losses, more fatigue, more morale loss AND less planes in the air - like when flying extended range or too small airfield. Massive night bombing was not used regularly in the Pacific AFAIK.

(in reply to esteban)
Post #: 18
RE: What is best defence against night bombing - 10/17/2004 11:41:09 PM   
BlackVoid


Posts: 639
Joined: 10/17/2003
Status: offline 		Almost forgot: accuracy should be toned down. A LOT.

(in reply to BlackVoid)
Post #: 19
RE: What is best defence against night bombing - 10/18/2004 9:36:58 AM   
pfnognoff


Posts: 631
Joined: 5/6/2003
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackVoid

I have to agree that this is a "game-killer" feature. My PBEM oppenent almost exclusively bombs at night (as Japan). I am thinking about doing the same.

BUT this will make the game totally unreal.

My vote is for more op losses, more fatigue, more morale loss AND less planes in the air - like when flying extended range or too small airfield. Massive night bombing was not used regularly in the Pacific AFAIK.


Me and my opponent saw that there is advantage in using night raids, so we both switch to nights (vampire like atmosphere). After a few weeks we drew a conclusion it is like you say a game breaker so now we agreed no more night raids! Must say that the game looks much better now.

BTW, there is a sticky now in the main forum that Kid made up, and we are looking forward into MG possibly changing the night raids routine

(in reply to BlackVoid)
Post #: 20
RE: What is best defence against night bombing - 10/18/2004 10:41:27 PM   
sven6345789

 

Posts: 1050
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Sandviken, Sweden
Status: offline 		i remember that in Victory Games "Pacific War", Night attacks were only allowed for 1. japanese bomber units with high experience (in WITP terms 75-80+ average experience)against TFs only; 2. allied high experience fighters (easy one, use only suadrons designated as night fighters) and 3. The strategic bombing campaign (handled abstractly in the game; you had to attack about ten times with high altitude day raids until you were allowed to change the table for the die roll, meaning you changed to the low altitude night firebombing technique that took out the japanese industry) this is difficult to transfer into game terms, but could be represented by being allowed to change to night bombing around lets say 01/01/45 or 03/01/45, giving the japanese some breathing time.
since the availability of missions can be restricted (take a look at mines dropped from the air) and since it is exploited this way the following restrictions should be implemented

a) night attacks by bombers allowed only for the japanese (average experience at least 75-80) against naval targets only.
b)night fighter missions only allowed for units so designated or visible (both sides)
c) strategic bombing missions against the japanese homeland allowed to take place at night only after a set date (city attacks)

otherwise, give it an enormous penalty for crews below experience 75-80 (like the one for skip bombing)

_____________________________

Bougainville, November 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9. It rained today.

Letter from a U.S. Marine,November 1943

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Post #: 21
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