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OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/23/2004 10:47:19 PM   
Jon_Hal

 

Posts: 95
Joined: 2/23/2004
Status: offline 		I'm not sure if it's been mentioned before but I finally recieved my copy of Pacific Fighters. A Flight Sim by the guys who made IL-2. I wondered how many flight Simmers actually played this game too. "Pacific Fighters" is a great game so far, but not without some glaring histrocal issues and ommisions. On the plus side you get a "Lot" of planes. Several models of the Wildcat, Hellcat, Corsair. A flyable Buffalo, Seaspit, Etc. The Lexington and Essex class ships look incredible in the game. If you are even a little interested in Flight Sims you should check it out.

http://www.pacific-fighters.com/en/pacific.php

Jon Out!
Post #: 1
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/23/2004 11:10:15 PM   
RAM

 

Posts: 402
Joined: 5/1/2000
From: Bilbao,Vizcaya,Spain
Status: offline 		I purchased Il-2. Got terrified with the heavy pro-soviet bias of the game.

Didn't purchase FB, but got the chance to fly it a lot in an online meeting. Got even more terrified about the devastating modelling of certain (key) planes, while the pro-soviet bias already present in Il-2 was still there. My decision not to purchase FB was, thus, stronger after that.


They both are very immersive sims with state-of-the-art graphics and nice detail. But the horrific modelling of certain planes and the ever-present pro-russian bias drawed my attention away from Maddox Games' simulators forever.

Maddox says his simulators are as realistic and historically true as possible in today computers. And I'm not giving my money to blatant liers, as I won't ever buy a CFS from Micro$oft, either. HAd Maddox published his titles as the "most immersive", "best recreation of piston engined combat fights" without any claim about being very historically accurate, then I would probably buy them, for they are good simulators.

But he's still claiming he's doing the most realistic, accurate thing possible. Something which is plainly false. As I say, liers don't eat with my money, So I'm not getting PF, at all.

_____________________________

RAM

"Look at me! look at me!!!

Not like that! NOT LIKE THAT!!!"

(in reply to Jon_Hal)
Post #: 2
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/24/2004 12:48:29 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RAM

I purchased Il-2. Got terrified with the heavy pro-soviet bias of the game.



Why do you say this? I own FB but have not had any chance to play it so cannot comment on it's authenticity.

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Post #: 3
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/24/2004 1:08:24 AM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Hi Ram
well, I think your a little wet dude

I agree that some of the planes are overmodelled, but so are some of the GE/GB/US planes

I got a GE pilot with over 150 kills, a Romy Pilot with 74 (patch broke that campaign, they changed the bomb load of his plane) a Fin pilot with over 50 kills

I do think there is some bias but what do you expect, it is a Russian game designer, if you go to the forums there, they have as many grogs there as we do here

my copy has been order and is shipped, hope to get it monday

will say, my HARDcore Full real friends, just love it

HARD_Sarge

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Post #: 4
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/24/2004 2:22:09 AM   
Vladd


Posts: 69
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		Hi RAM :)

I'd give Pacific Fighters a try. It is immersive, the CVs and other ships are tremendous, graphics amazing. Some features of IL2 have been impoved also - no more ridiculous blinding muzzle flashes for example.

No Soviet bias as a problem given the main combatents either ;)

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 5
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/24/2004 4:12:32 AM   
Caltone


Posts: 651
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: Raleigh, NC USA
Status: offline 		I'm enjoying it. I was also fan of FB. It's really of the only thing we have atm, so I'm glad it's out there. Fun, looks good, nice flight model, and good campaign.

_____________________________

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Post #: 6
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/24/2004 3:05:08 PM   
RAM

 

Posts: 402
Joined: 5/1/2000
From: Bilbao,Vizcaya,Spain
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

quote:

ORIGINAL: RAM

I purchased Il-2. Got terrified with the heavy pro-soviet bias of the game.



Why do you say this? I own FB but have not had any chance to play it so cannot comment on it's authenticity.




Hmmmm...I'll only comment the problems on ONE of the plane types of the planeset of where this is very present in Il-2:

There were three versions of the Fw190 in the game (and posterior official patches): Fw190A4,A5 and A8.

All of them were modelled with not that great performance given the performance curves for the given planes.

The A4 was particularly punished: was modelled using TsAGI performances which were shown as wrong because the plane tested was faulty. The climb performances are similar to that of a de-rated 190A4, when in russia no Fw190Anton flew with derated engines after the move from Fw190A3 to A4.

The Fw190A8, with special C3 injection into the engine was cleared for 1.58ata for ,literally, "all the emergency time needed", from, previously ,being cleared for usage of 10 minutes in a row. In the game the engine overheats after 3-4 minutes of special injection. In real life in late 1944 the emergency C3 injection was cleared for use at any altitudes up to 4000m. In the game over 1000m you get no benefit from it.


in contrast, ALL and EVERY soviet fighter modelled in the plane is modelled after their BEST performance curves. Something up to ridiculous levels when you see a La5FN achieving 590km/h@SL (something which only the La7s and very late 45' La5FNs were able to do, when the FN was flying from 1943...result: in a 1943 planeset you get a 1945 La5FN. Great). And you take AGES to overheat a soviet engine compared with the german ones...the La5, for instance, is almost impossible to overheat if you let radiators open.


Fw190s and Bf109s' pilots were prone to be killed with a single rifle caliber impact in the plane, as if there was no armored plates in it. It grew to extremely ridicule happenings, such as getting a hit in the lower fusselage and getting the pilot hit (ultra-AP 7.92mm soviet ShKAS ammunition????)


Extremely weird energy-loss modelling on certain planes. Fw190 was reportedly (and markedly) unable to do any kind of move out of diving&zooming as anything in the horizontal plane would cause an almost instantaneous 100km/h loss in a couple seconds. Even the Dive&Zoom ability is seriously impaired :the pull-out causes too much E-bleed.


Horrible frontal cockpit view from one of the planes with best cockpit view of WW2. Refraction from inclined armored frontal glass is not modelled. REsult: half of the gunsight is covered by an horrible metal bar that wasn't visible in the true Fw190. Result nº2: it's impossible to hit anything lower than the center of your gunsight, deflection snapshots (the key for 190 success) are seriously imparied.

It's so ridiculous that the cockpit view from a Bf109 is BETTER than one in a 190 (and the 109 view has also its own problems, to start with), something which is clearly wrong according to any source one can try to seek.


Ridiculous ammunition model. half of the 30mm load of the Mk108-fitted planes is useless. Oleg insisted to model the 30mm tracer round (which was rarely used in the east) and include it in the ammunition of the gun. Result: 50% of your 30mm hits are useless.


etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc...and etcetera.

and those are problems with ONLY Il-2. If I go into FB I can last forever (someone tells me how is possible that a Fw190D9 with low-pressure Mw50 injection has BETTER performance than a later Fw190D9 with HIGH-pressure Mw50 injection????)---so I won't get into that.


As a fighters simulator is a GREAT game. Both Il-2 and FB. As a high-fidelity WW-2 fighters simulator, it's crap because of the very numerous errors present....and as they insist on marketing it as the second, I'm not buying anything from them. As simple as that :).

< Message edited by RAM -- 10/24/2004 1:08:22 PM >

_____________________________

RAM

"Look at me! look at me!!!

Not like that! NOT LIKE THAT!!!"

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 7
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/24/2004 5:19:12 PM   
Caltone


Posts: 651
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: Raleigh, NC USA
Status: offline 		Just a short follow up. The link below is to a set of screenshots detailing the attack on PH. The guy is in a Val onboard the Akagi and managed to get some nice pics of his trip. Thought everyone might enjoy these.

Pacific Fighters Screenshots

_____________________________

"Order AP Hill to prepare for battle" -- Stonewall Jackson

(in reply to RAM)
Post #: 8
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/24/2004 5:38:12 PM   
RAM

 

Posts: 402
Joined: 5/1/2000
From: Bilbao,Vizcaya,Spain
Status: offline 		As I said ,if it is for graphics or immersion, Il-2&follow ons are the best simulators around, bar none.

But as an historical-high-fidelity simulator it's not (by far). Had they changed the planes' graphics from upside down,changed its name for "piston engined planes",and stopped pretending it's a WW2 simulator, I would play it with no problem...

however, I'm an historical nut, and seeing planes under or overperforming WAY over (or under) their historical counterparts destroys all the fun out from me. But admitedly I'm a WW2 fighters freak so unless you're as freak as me, Maddox games' simulators are really great...just don't extract "historical" conclussions out from it :)

_____________________________

RAM

"Look at me! look at me!!!

Not like that! NOT LIKE THAT!!!"

(in reply to Caltone)
Post #: 9
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/25/2004 9:57:32 AM   
Bane


Posts: 132
Joined: 4/18/2004
From: Honolulu, HI
Status: offline 		You'll get a kick out of this

_____________________________

Second to the Last Samurai...

"What do you think Abraham Lincoln would be doing if he were alive today? (1) Writing his memoirs of the Civil War. (2) Advising the President. (3) Desperately clawing at the inside of his coffin."

(in reply to RAM)
Post #: 10
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/25/2004 11:59:08 AM   
nico71


Posts: 121
Joined: 9/2/2003
Status: offline 		Oleg "All-western-sources-propaganda" Maddox? LOL! Yeah, it's true! The heavy pro-soviet bias has killed the game for me. I was a member in three online-squads for two years. I was really willing to give it a chance and give Oleg a chance to fix it. He didn't. So I gave up on it. This bias issue is not new. There are sims out there with uber US-aircraft. The problem with Maddox is that he only accepts Russian sources as they are (in his opinion) the only reliable ones.

Nevertheless, I gave PF a chance as well. My expectations weren't really high, and that's why I'm not really disappointed. I thought that Oleg can't break it because there are no Russian fighters. But I was wrong! Well, The A6M2, at least, is indeed a flying zippo! A single rifle caliber round has killed both the pilot and the engine and has set my Zero aflame. And this has happened several times now. The A6M2 is an easy prey for the F4F-3 in PF. If I fly the latter I can easily outturn the Zero and kill it with a short burst. I didn't test the later US aircraft, but from what I gather the 7-tons monster Hellcat can outrun, outdive and outturn any Japanese plane. Have to test it more thoroughly, though. I was excited about the carrier ops, but they are simplified and become boring quickly.

Then I tried an offline campaign mission as a Beaufighter driver in Guinea. Just to watch the entire flight crashing into the next hill. After more than two years this issue has not been adressed.

PF is, like its predecessors, a nice online game with WWII aircraft for a quick dogfight in between. Nothing more.

(in reply to RAM)
Post #: 11
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/25/2004 12:27:05 PM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		I particularly liked the KGV's in BB row!

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Post #: 12
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/25/2004 2:00:55 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

I particularly liked the KGV's in BB row!

Yeah, that cracked me up too. Seven of them! Who knew? Must have been like a reverse Lend-Lease.

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Post #: 13
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/25/2004 3:30:22 PM   
RevRick


Posts: 2617
Joined: 9/16/2000
From: Thomasville, GA
Status: offline 		Well, that settles the "realism" aspect of this game for me... Won't waste my time.

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Post #: 14
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/25/2004 4:13:29 PM   
nico71


Posts: 121
Joined: 9/2/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

Well, that settles the "realism" aspect of this game for me... Won't waste my time.


Well, those ships at PH are a very minor issue. I mean, c'mon! You don't expect 3D-modellers to create models for a bunch of BBs just for a single mission?! I mean, modelling a single ship is much more demanding and time consuming than modelling a little simple aircraft. I've done both and I know what I am talking about! Yes, as stated above, there are some issues with PF, but let's not stretch it too far!

(in reply to RevRick)
Post #: 15
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/25/2004 4:16:42 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		They could at least have done a generic US Standard Type BB.

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Fear the kitten!

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Post #: 16
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/25/2004 4:31:28 PM   
steveh11Matrix


Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		I'm guessing that the next mission is an attack on Prince of Wales and Prince of Wales!

Steve.

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Post #: 17
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/25/2004 5:23:58 PM   
UncleBuck

 

Posts: 633
Joined: 10/31/2003
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I play IL_2 FB and will be getting PF when my squad moves to it. THey say that upgradingto PF will cause problems with servers that are not also updated. My Squads server is not upgraded to PF yet so I am holding off.

UB

_____________________________


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Post #: 18
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/25/2004 5:58:14 PM   
NimitsTexan

 

Posts: 63
Joined: 4/30/2004
From: United States
Status: offline 		The KGV is a place holder; evidently alot of content was left out of the CDs (UBI and 1C did were cheap and did not want to spring for a third cd) and so will be available for download as a patch very soon. I am guessing some WWI US BBs will be in there.

(in reply to UncleBuck)
Post #: 19
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/25/2004 6:23:34 PM   
Milman

 

Posts: 269
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Serbia
Status: offline
quote:

The problem with Maddox is that he only accepts Russian sources as they are (in his opinion) the only reliable ones.


Don't you think that west europe and North american companies do the same thing ? They also use USA as only reliable source of history facts witch they implement in video games .

(in reply to nico71)
Post #: 20
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/25/2004 6:34:34 PM   
Jaws_slith


Posts: 615
Joined: 1/11/2002
Status: offline 		I've got IL-2/FB/AEP/BoE and PF and going to play at the World Championship IL-2 in the Netherlands next month. Not that I'm a good pilot but it is a lot of fun and I live in the area

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Good Hunting

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Post #: 21
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/25/2004 6:35:27 PM   
nico71


Posts: 121
Joined: 9/2/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Milman

quote:

The problem with Maddox is that he only accepts Russian sources as they are (in his opinion) the only reliable ones.


Don't you think that west europe and North american companies do the same thing ? They also use USA as only reliable source of history facts witch they implement in video games .


That's what I have said. In the sentence before this one above.

(in reply to Milman)
Post #: 22
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/25/2004 6:44:23 PM   
Caltone


Posts: 651
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: Raleigh, NC USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NimitsTexan
The KGV is a place holder; evidently alot of content was left out of the CDs (UBI and 1C did were cheap and did not want to spring for a third cd) and so will be available for download as a patch very soon. I am guessing some WWI US BBs will be in there.


Yeah I was surprised the game was on 2 disks. I expected 3 or maybe 4. I'm sure the game will get better after some updating. But overall, I like this title better than regular IL2, mainly due to the theater.

_____________________________

"Order AP Hill to prepare for battle" -- Stonewall Jackson

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Post #: 23
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/25/2004 7:34:37 PM   
Howard Mitchell


Posts: 449
Joined: 6/3/2002
From: Blighty
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

Well, that settles the "realism" aspect of this game for me... Won't waste my time.


I think you're getting a very one-sided view of the game here - perhaps those who are criticising it would like to give you the names of WW2 flight sims they consider more realistic? I can't think of any, all have their faults and quirks.

PF, added on to Forgotten Battles and its Aces Expansion Pack, is in my opinion the current leader for WW2 flight sims. You will always get people who don't like the way a particular plane has been modelled, but the overall feel of the game is the best I have come across. I'd recommend it, especially as, like WitP, the makers support the product once released with however many patches they feel necessary.

_____________________________

While the battles the British fight may differ in the widest possible ways, they invariably have two common characteristics – they are always fought uphill and always at the junction of two or more map sheets.

General Sir William Slim

(in reply to RevRick)
Post #: 24
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/25/2004 7:36:32 PM   
Jon_Hal

 

Posts: 95
Joined: 2/23/2004
Status: offline 		wow, check it out.. this thread is so popular it generated it's own thread over at SIMHQ

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=114;t=000499


I have spent more time with it now and am really enjoying it. In Witp, We order our Ships around on a massive Stratigic scale. Taking off from your carrier at dawn and watching the sun rise as you fly towards the enemy fleet is something to be experienced if you love the time period. It gives you a great perspective on the personal side of the air war.

Arguing about flight models and how accurate they were has continued since World War 2 and even then the experts then couldn't agree! some things should just be enjoyed for what they are. The best World War 2 Pacific flight sim yet. Sorry if you don't care to fly it. It's your loss

regards,

Jon

(in reply to RAM)
Post #: 25
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/25/2004 7:38:57 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Well, my copy just got here, so I am happy (of course, hopeing that NBA2005 shows up tomorrow or so :( )

so now, I can be in charge of the whole war in WITP and then take and fight battles in the air too :)

come on UB, get the puter up and running so you can spend more money and go flying :):):)

HARD_Sarge

_____________________________


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Post #: 26
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/25/2004 8:21:39 PM   
BarkhornXX

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 6/5/2004
Status: offline 		Pro-Soviet bias - huh?? There seems to be more than a bit of anti-IL-2 bias on these boards.

For the record;
1. Historical Accuracy;
- Yes the KGV's are place holders, and yes 1C could not fit all of the content on to the 2 CD's that UBI allowed them to issue.
- And yes there will be a huge patch out soon that will provide much more content as well as revamped (more accurate) campaigns
- So - to focus on the KGV issue and say Pfft! - after that amazing series of screenshots is just churlish, IMO.

2. FM Masturbation;
- Hey RAM, have you even flown an FW-190A or D, or an LA-5FN?
- Neither have I - which puts us both about even on the bitch meter and allows Oleg to laugh at our opinions.
- Nico - the Zero was a zippo - the fact that your not using it right is not the fault of the sim. You say one shot = 1 kill? I've seen these claims before - and the tracks always show that there were multiple hits. An F4F-3 can outrun a Zero? Let's see a track then and we can all have the proof.

Is IL-, FB, AEP, PF perfect? Hell No - the GUI is "functional' but lacks character, the campaigns could use more as well, the AI is erratic, and why aren't there actually "accurate" national markings available out of the box for a game that bills itself as a sim.

However, Howard was right on target when he stated that there is NO WWII sim better - consistently overall - in the areas of FM, DM, Sfx, plane modelling quality, pit quality and the sheer number of a/c that you can fly.

Finally, I've flow RBII (loved it), EAW (liked it), CFS2 (loathed it) - and I passed on CFS3 -because I knew that post release support would be almost non-existent. With PF you KNOW there will be at least 3 patches that will fix some things and add tons more content.

Thank you all for allowing me to provide the rest of the story.

Barkhorn.

< Message edited by BarkhornXX -- 10/25/2004 6:24:13 PM >

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 27
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/25/2004 9:02:03 PM   
UncleBuck

 

Posts: 633
Joined: 10/31/2003
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Hey Sarge,

I am sorry to say that I have for the first time taken my PC to a store for work. They told me it should be back today or tomorrow. I am not holding my breath. I am certain that the new MB was bad. I was just at a loss after 2 weeks of having it down. Anyway, I will get that turn to you as soon as it is back up. I may see about gettign it installed on GF PC tonight but it is her box and I got to ask to play with it.

UB

_____________________________


(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 28
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/25/2004 9:19:53 PM   
Caltone


Posts: 651
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: Raleigh, NC USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge
Well, my copy just got here, so I am happy so now, I can be in charge of the whole war in WITP and then take and fight battles in the air too :)
HARD_Sarge


That's about the way I see it too Hard Sarge. It's a lot of fun, the patch will improve it, and it's the PTO!

So I jump into my PBEM and watch Sonny bombard my bases and sink my carriers. Then I go into PF, set up a battle and get some revenge

With custom mission building you can make your own campaigns or play someone else's. Personally I'm having a blast playing a Val pilot atm in the dynamic campaign, and look forward to trying my hand as a fighter jock soon. Heck, maybe I'll take out an Emily for a jaunt

Anyways, if you like sims of this type, you'll enjoy PF. I stayed away from the CFS stuff so the only thing even close I had played before was a PTO mod for EAW. I didn't really care for that one so PF is a great title to go along with WitP.

_____________________________

"Order AP Hill to prepare for battle" -- Stonewall Jackson

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 29
RE: OT- Pacific Fighters - 10/25/2004 9:33:32 PM   
RAM

 

Posts: 402
Joined: 5/1/2000
From: Bilbao,Vizcaya,Spain
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BarkhornXX

Pro-Soviet bias - huh?? There seems to be more than a bit of anti-IL-2 bias on these boards.


it's called "Opinion". And FYI, there is A LOT of people (potential customers lost) who think exactly as I do.


quote:

2. FM Masturbation;
- Hey RAM, have you even flown an FW-190A or D, or an LA-5FN?


this is the most usual, yet idiotic, kind of answer you get on UBI forums as soon as you point out to a maddox games' FM error.

They don't discuss your sources, they don't try to argue. All they know is to answer: "have you flown one? no? then shuddup".


See, man, do I need to fly a Fw190A or D or a La5FN to know how to read original WW2 performance charts, flight manuals and personal quotes about both?. No, isn't it?

If you do have an answer to my question about FB (how does a Fw190D9 with low-pressure MW50 injection perform BETTER than a latter Fw190D9 with HIGH pressure MW50 injection?. For instance), then do it.

in the meantime you can jerk around with your stupid observations about FM "masturbations" somewhere else. You have your opinion. I have my (well documented) own. I share it. Share yours. But stop messing with everyone who think's otherwise and shares their opinion as they see fit. This is not UBI forums, where you can do that freely.

I don't need to fly a Fw190 to hold my own opinion about Maddox games, so respect it if you want respect in exchange.

thank you.



quote:

- Neither have I - which puts us both about even on the bitch meter and allows Oleg to laugh at our opinions.


and what Oleg gets for such a questionable attitude, such questionable sources (which he has -NEVER- shared in public, yet we have to blindly trust them), and such, excuse me ,idiotic support from the cheerful proMaddox biased support groups is that almost 50% of FB was owned by piracy methods.

I don't like piracy, at all. But Il-2 got less than a 20% mark of Piracy, and that was because something (people didn't know Maddox back then). People stops buying Oleg's products because "something".

"something" is Oleg, his "mistery" sources, his mind closeness, and the rabid supporters on UBI forums who draw any critic poster out from there burning down in flames.

But as I said this is not Ubi forums, so please go back there if you want to keep that line of posting. Otherwise, try to talk to others with respect.



quote:

However, Howard was right on target when he stated that there is NO WWII sim better - consistently overall - in the areas of FM, DM, Sfx, plane modelling quality, pit quality and the sheer number of a/c that you can fly.



False. Try out Aces High. Damage model and SFX are better on Il2, as does gunnery model in some ways (but not all). But FMs and plane performances are MUCH better in Aces High...in fact, all of them historically backed (and when you ask about the sources backing those performances they don't answer "I can't show them", they share them with you).

Historically-wise AH is consistently better than Il-2 or FB. Immersion-wise, as I already said before, Maddox games reign supreme. But that doesn't mean it's the best WW2 sim...because the planes performances simply aren't those of WW2.


oh, and in aces high I've flown in an area with 75 enemy planes present. And all of them human...in an arena with a total of more than 500 guys flying at the same time. So you might watch that thing about "sheer numbers of aircraft around".

if I understood it wrong and you mean the number of types of aircraft you can fly first-person, then Aces High ranks very high too. I lost the count, but you can fly more than 35 aircraft types of all nationalities, some five tanks and vehicles and even a PT boat.

< Message edited by RAM -- 10/25/2004 7:46:15 PM >

_____________________________

RAM

"Look at me! look at me!!!

Not like that! NOT LIKE THAT!!!"

(in reply to BarkhornXX)
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