RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections?

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RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 4:46:40 AM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
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From: Stillwater, OK, United States
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Oh Forranger, while it seems I do have some support in this, I want to ask you a question. earlier, you said :

quote:

Just one question in this context: Why is footage on returning coffins and badly injured soldiers from Iraq systematically suppressed? I know of no other example of such willing (self-)censorship in another free country. Is this a liberal attitude or does it benefit conservatives guessing that their reasons for this war were too weak for the public to support this mounting casualty list?

Here is the answer. Here in America, we don't have to see our brave troops bodies to know they are dying. But we also know this. For every 1 or 2, or 5 or 10 that do give the ultimate sacrifice, then 100, 200, 500, or 1000 Kurds or Iraqis don't have to die. You seem to zero in on the fact that we didn't find tons of WMDs as meaning there was no reason to go into Iraq. What about the fact that Saddam was using the Oil-for-Food program to rebuild his capacity to build WMDs? What about the fact that documents have revealed that as soon as the sanctions were lifted he was going to build WMDs? I don't know how it is in Switzerland, where no one really gives a thought about your country, let alone wanting to kill anyone in it. But here in America, where someone you don't even know half way around the globe wants to kill you, kill your family, and destroy your way of life, you want to get the bombs before they can be used, or better yet stop them from being made.

If that is not good enough, what about all the murdered Iraqis? You claim you are a news editor. I am sure then you saw the videos of the mass graves, the murdered women, the tortured children, and the gassed kurds. Did not their dying in the hundreds curdle your stomach? Thanks to America, they don't have to wonder each day "Do I die today." Children can go to school. They can see doctors. They can live.

People talk of the injustices at Guantanamo Bay. I have a friend who's father works there. Those priosners eat more, get better health care, and generally lead better lives than what they ever did in Iraq or Afganistan. Now, lets look at what happens to American POWs. They are killed. They are beheaded. Or, in the case of Pvt. Jessica Lynch, they are raped. And you sir, have the gaul to insult Americans? You from the country that in the 1940's took kickbacks from the Nazis? I respect your opinions. But sometimes, you make me sick sir.

quote:

So my question to you: How do you cope with the fact that the arsenal of weapons of mass distruction in Iraq has turned out to be non-existent? And do you still believe that there was a link between Saddam and Al Qaida and 9/11? Are you happy with how things turned out in Iraq after the military victory? Do you really think this has lead to more sympathy towards the US in the potential pool of terrorists? If not, how can you still support Bush with his war on terror strategy?

See my things earlier in theis post reagarding the WMDs. I do believe there was a link between Saddam and Al Qaida. And, even if there wasn't, they were still terrorism. We don't want the Terrorists sympathy, Mr. Forranger. We want them to give up terrorism, and lead peaceful lives. Am I happy with how things turned out? Not totally. I didn't expect Iraq to be so chalk full of terrorists as it is. But, I suppose that in itself reinforces my beliefs. The fact that all these terrorist groups in Iraq prove there had to be a link of some kind. But I am happy about the fact that many Iraqi men, women, and children don't have to live in a perpetual state of fear from the regime in power.

< Message edited by Tankerace -- 10/29/2004 11:14:42 PM >

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Post #: 151

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 4:54:14 AM

madmickey

Posts: 1336
Joined: 2/11/2004
From: Calgary, Alberta
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The use of Iraq against Iran strategy was initially proposed by Jimmy Carter and his national security advisor Z Brezhniski (sic)

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Post #: 152

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 4:54:33 AM

2ndACR

Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline

I have been trying to decide if I wanted to jup in this thread, and I do, but this really needs to be in the Steakhouse.

Over there, we can argue politics and what the bad old US has done wrong this time till we are blue in the face. I would suggest the mods lock this up. Otherwise I may have to uncork some REAL right wing mud slinging on some Europeans and Lefty's.

Bush rules and Kerry is a Traitor to this country.

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Post #: 153

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 4:55:16 AM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline

Here Here, 2ndACR! Thank God I am not alone anymore.

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Post #: 154

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 4:58:25 AM

2ndACR

Posts: 5665
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From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline

Never alone, but I did not want to get on a roll in this forum. I prefer this one to stay the nuetral ground. But if they feel froggy to come on over to the Steakhouse and play, then that is a whole different ball of wax.

For the uninitiated of you, on the main forum page at the bottom is a hyper link to the Steakhouse. We can get as rough as you like over there.

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Post #: 155

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 4:58:58 AM

madmickey

Posts: 1336
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From: Calgary, Alberta
Status: offline

Tankerace do not forget that Hitler used Swiss rail to transport Italian Jews to death camps and it was only USA pressure that forced Swiss bank to pay Jewish survivor. Of Course the Swiss were a big help in the fall of the Iron Curtain even though they are an extremely heavily armoured country.

< Message edited by madmickey -- 10/30/2004 2:59:32 AM >

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Post #: 156

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 5:00:33 AM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
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From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline

True, I forgot about that. I don't think that Switzerland is a bad country, but I don't believe people in it have any right to insult Americans, or any other country for that matter.

I agree though, lets shift it to there. While we are all entitled to our opinions, I feel this might be becoming too heated, and I have no desire to offend or insult anyone, regardless of the insults they have or may throw at me.

< Message edited by Tankerace -- 10/29/2004 9:02:07 PM >

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Post #: 157

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 5:01:09 AM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
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From: Stillwater, OK, United States
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Hrm, my browser isn't wanting to let me go to the steakhouse. A liberal-Communist conspiracy!

I hate IE sometimes.

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Post #: 158

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 5:01:17 AM

madmickey

Posts: 1336
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From: Calgary, Alberta
Status: offline

Tankerace as I said I do not want to get invovled in politics, but the Swiss lurker really pissed me off. I still do not want to waste a lot of time hear not talking about the game, sport or other friendly matters (beer).

< Message edited by madmickey -- 10/30/2004 3:02:12 AM >

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Post #: 159

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 5:02:46 AM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
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From: Stillwater, OK, United States
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That's what got me too. Remember, I'm the guy he said was Brain-washed, because I don't think Kerry is, to use an American phrase, "All that and a bag of chips."

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Post #: 160

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 5:47:50 AM

fbastos

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Bumped to the Meathouse

< Message edited by fbastos -- 10/30/2004 4:24:08 AM >

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Post #: 161

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 5:54:24 AM

2ndACR

Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
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Once again, lets move this to the Steakhouse. This is nuetral ground here. What is said over there about politics and other countries should not be brought back here.

This is for WITP not politics. Even though I am mighty tempted to start bashing.

http://prochelo.com/stl-web/bulletin/bb/index.php

< Message edited by 2ndACR -- 10/29/2004 9:57:34 PM >

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Post #: 162

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 6:13:00 AM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline

Woo, a working link, thanks.

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Post #: 163

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 6:15:06 AM

Titanwarrior89

Posts: 3283
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From: arkansas
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The election will come first by a long shot.

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Post #: 164

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 6:19:36 AM

Tankerace

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From: Stillwater, OK, United States
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Yea, I am betting the election will come, then the patch, then the next president. In that order.

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Post #: 165

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 6:20:18 AM

2ndACR

Posts: 5665
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From: Irving,Tx
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There is now a thread in the Steakhouse for any of you lefty's and euros that want to play.

Come to the lions den and spout this crap.

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Post #: 166

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 6:21:14 AM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline

Shall we let loose the dogs o' war?

So, lets all go to the steakhouse, and end this thread. Let us continue to be friends and play Witp, regardless of Communist, leftist, right-wing, or whatever political views.

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Post #: 167

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 6:23:16 AM

fbastos

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Oh, **THAT** is the steakhouse.. :)

I was wondering what that meant.

Okies, bumping last post.

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Post #: 168

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 6:32:02 AM

2ndACR

Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
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Lets see how many really want to debate the crap they spew. Bring it on.

But be fore warned, you may get mauled.

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Post #: 169

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 7:09:58 AM

Reiryc

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Joined: 1/5/2001
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quote:

ORIGINAL: forrange

Just one question in this context: Why is footage on returning coffins and badly injured soldiers from Iraq systematically suppressed? I know of no other example of such willing (self-)censorship in another free country. Is this a liberal attitude or does it benefit conservatives guessing that their reasons for this war were too weak for the public to support this mounting casualty list?

This policy was created under the clinton administration.

quote:

I for myself - believe it or not - am a big fan of the US of A, historical achievements, the American way of life. I'd even say most of the Europeans are. What is not realized by Americans is that over here most observers clearly divide between the American folks on the streets and their government.

Maybe some of you should realize that over here, quite a few of us don't take kindly to this view.

quote:

I'd sit together anytime with American tourists and have a good time. But it's hard to understand how blindly you follow your leadership, even more so since the circumstances how Bush became president were disgusting.

There is nothing disgusting about how he came to be president beyond Gore and the DNC injecting doubts into the american voting process. Bush has been shown, but many independent recounts after the whole fiasco, to be the winner. The LA Times, known for it's left wing views even declared bush the winner with it's own recount afterwards.

quote:

In Europe we had some utter bad experiences with leaders with absolute power, therefore it's hard to take for example how easy you can forgive to be lead into war with weak if not plain false reasons given.

Because there is no leader here with absolute power. It's comparisons such as these that go too far.

quote:

So my question to you: How do you cope with the fact that the arsenal of weapons of mass distruction in Iraq has turned out to be non-existent?

I cope with it the following way:

WMD's were a primary reason for going to war, but not the only reason. In bush's speech prior to the war he listed humanitarian reasons such as removing saddam from power.

I also deal with the fact that iraq was in violation of resolution 1441 by 'failing to declare weapons either by omission or deceit' in iraq's weapons declaration. As far as I'm concerned, we should have resumed the war upon the first transgression of the ceasefire treaty, not 12 years later.

Lastly, I'm pretty pleased that 25 million people no longer are ruled by such a megalomaniacal dictator.

quote:

And do you still believe that there was a link between Saddam and Al Qaida and 9/11?

I never thought there was. However he did support terrorist activities by providing money to the families of suicide bombers in israel. That kind of behavior and attitude needs to be stamped out in the middle east.

quote:

Are you happy with how things turned out in Iraq after the military victory?

For the most part, yes. We have done many many positive things in iraq, much more so than the negative. However, since it doesn't bleed, it doesn't lead.

quote:

Do you really think this has lead to more sympathy towards the US in the potential pool of terrorists? If not, how can you still support Bush with his war on terror strategy?

I realize that after the US started bombing germany that germany would create more fighter squadrons to defend against such an offensive. This doesn't mean that bombing the reich shouldn't have been done simply because it creates more resistance.

quote:

By the way: I'd never say Kerry is an ideal choice, but there's no other choice in my eyes to avoid the certainty of even more porcellain broken during a second Bush presidency.

I'd rather bush(although he isn't receiving my vote) to kerry any day. Kerry's activities after he came back from the vietnam war, specifically his direct support of our enemies peace proposal that was not favorable to the US smacks of treason to me... "giving aid and comfort". Add this to his yurupean socialist tendencies and he is wrong for america, much more so than bush is.

< Message edited by Reiryc -- 10/30/2004 5:20:37 AM >

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Post #: 170

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 7:16:26 AM

fbastos

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Second bump

< Message edited by fbastos -- 10/30/2004 6:27:38 AM >

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Post #: 171

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 7:27:59 AM

Tophat

Posts: 460
Joined: 8/6/2002
From: Cleveland,Ohio
Status: offline

hmmmn,
So far no takers in the steakhouse....dissapointing

There is that nasty finger wag again......

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Post #: 172

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 7:33:32 AM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
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From: Stillwater, OK, United States
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Awww, the Liberals don't want a taste of their own medicine do they?

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Post #: 173

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 7:34:48 AM

Mr.Frag

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From: Purgatory
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Die thread Die!

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Post #: 174

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 7:35:25 AM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
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hahahahaha. No, we want 'em to come to the steakhouse. we do want this one to die.

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Post #: 175

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 7:36:43 AM

Mr.Frag

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Thats about the ONLY reason this thread still lives ... the nice link to elsewhere

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Post #: 176

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 7:37:41 AM

Tankerace

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From: Stillwater, OK, United States
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Post #: 177

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 7:53:30 AM

fbastos

Posts: 827
Joined: 8/7/2004
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Are you kidding? That place is scary!!

Look at someone's avatar there...

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

I'm kind of more comfortable with avatars like mine... :)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by fbastos -- 10/30/2004 5:54:30 AM >

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Post #: 178

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 7:57:32 AM

2ndACR

Posts: 5665
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From: Irving,Tx
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That would be Nefarious. Just stay out of the outhouse if you have a weak stomach.

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Post #: 179

RE: Presidential Patch or Matrix Elections? - 10/30/2004 8:03:36 AM

fbastos

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Me going there would be like Kennedy in his PT-109 running right into Tokyo Bay on 1942... :)

F

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Post #: 180

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