Japan Declares War against Western Imperialism - Xargun vs RRoberson (take 3)

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Japan Declares War against Western Imperialism - Xargun... - 11/2/2004 12:35:38 AM

Xargun

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From: Near Columbus, Ohio
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Well its about to begin... Rob & I have put our current game on the shelf in favor of starting over with the new 1.3 patch which is due out any time now. We have a few changes to the OOB and some house rules we're going to use and I must make a few hard decisions....

First of all everyone is welcome to read this thread (except Rob) and comment however you want on this thread. All that I ask is whatever you read here you do not comment on in Rob's thread (and vice versa). We both agree that using separate threads for our AAR will be interesting and more fun - it will allow us to explain our plans and strategy to all of you without the other learning of it... It also allows us to use you all as our advisors and bounces ideas and questions off you...

I believe I have all of our changes and rules listed below, if not I'll edit the post and inform everyone..

OOB Changes

1. Japan gets 12 new air sentais - 6 Army / 6 Navy - to be used for training purposes only. Not sure of exact composition of the units but will be split between fighters and bombers mostly - and of different types - so yes, I will get crappy Nate pilots to train... But the aircraft isn't the reason for this - its the ability to use on-map training as per Mogami's ideas...

2. The 1st & 2nd USMC Divs cannot move beyond the Hawaiian islands (or west coast) until April 1st, 1942. This is to simulate when the 1st Div becomes operational and the major concern for the defense of the Hawaiian Islands and west coast.

3. Some Japanese units will have their starting targets changed according with Invasion rules below (See House Rule #2 below).

HOUSE RULES

1. No Amphibious Invasions without friendly air cover - either Land-based or CV provided (Turn one is only exception to this rule due to surprise).
2. No Amphibious Invasions (of greater than 1000 load size) without every unit in the invasion with at least 30 Preparation Points for the destination - this is to simulate the training the units would recieve prior to being sent to invade an enemy held island. This also included aerial paratrooper assauts as well. Overland attacks can proceed at any pace possible.

3. No rearming TFs in ports smaller than 3 without an AE present
4. No refueling of capital ships in ports smaller than 3 without an AO or TK present (Capital ships are cruisers and larger)
5. ASW TFs cannot exceed 10 ships
6. PT Boats may not be included in TFs with other ships (exception: Rule #8)
7. PT Boat TF may have a max of 6 ships in it
8. PT Boat TF may only have other ships in it - or more than 6 - when transferring between bases - using the extra ships are portable fuel sources
9. No creating Barges / PT Boats at bases smaller than 3 or that are behind enemy lines - cut off. It is unrealistic to have new PT boats magically appear at bases behind enemy lines without having to sail there and be subjected to enemy attack
10. Japanese Home Defense Air Units cannot be used on IJN Carriers without changing their HQs and paying the appropriate PP cost
11. No attacks on Manilla or Singapore Ports during turn 1
12. The allies cannot simply pick up and withdraw from Malaya, PI, or the DEI without putting up significant fights. This will stop the allied player from playing on hindsight and evacuating all of the Dutch forces before they are even attacked - very unrealistic.
13. No Allied CV Capable air units on CVs until 1/44 - designed to keep Marine Fighter groups off CVs
14. Allied player may give orders to any allied TF at sea to reflect possible early war warnings. The Allied player may NOT order US CVs back to PH on turn 1 to interrupt KB's attack on Pearl.
15. Allied player may NOT create any new TFs on turn 1

Game Settings

Scenario 15 PBEM
Sub Ops Off for both players
Auto Sub Ops - off
Auto Replacements / Reinforcements / Base Expansion - off
Allied Damage Control - on
Historic Turn One - off
Dec 7th Surprise - on

House Rules #1 & #2 are designed to mostly slow the pace of the game down to a more historic / reasonable level. House Rule #2 is open to change during the game should we find the need to slow the game down more.

< Message edited by Xargun -- 11/1/2004 10:39:06 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Japan Declares War against Western Imperialism - Xa... - 11/2/2004 12:44:13 AM

Xargun

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From: Near Columbus, Ohio
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All right.. Now that I have that posted my dilema.... Pearl Harbor.. Usually I stay 4+ days bombing the hell out of PH - at a high cost of losing a lot of Kate pilots... What do you guys think I should do ? Stay at PH for several days trying to cripple / kill as much as I can or stay for like 2 days and then pull back ?

Also. I plan on leaving Wake Island alone at the war's beginning - its to easy for the allies to use US CVs to smash the invasion fleet if the invasion doesn't happen right on schedule.

I am also going to land at Mersing (Malaya) instead of Kuantan and attempt to cut off the all the bases from singapore quickly.. I am thinking of dropping 2 divisions in Mersing to accomplish this..

I am thinking of taking Balikpapan and Kendari on turn 1 as well for forward air bases to hinder his fleeing ships and attempt to bag some of the dozens of warships in the area at game start.

In china I am thinking of hitting hard at Changsha and then down the rail and then possibly laying low to conserve supplies for another huge push in Feb..

I am thinking of making an early bid for Midway to put a crimp of US sub use..

Let me hear your ideas ? Complaints ? Suggestions ? Comments ?

Xargun

(in reply to Xargun)

Post #: 2

RE: Japan Declares War against Western Imperialism - Xa... - 11/2/2004 1:01:54 AM

Reiryc

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quote:

I am also going to land at Mersing (Malaya) instead of Kuantan and attempt to cut off the all the bases from singapore quickly.. I am thinking of dropping 2 divisions in Mersing to accomplish this..

I tried that, but it takes so long to cross the trail, that he can still get troops into singapore before you walk across. The only way around it, imo, is to land at the base across the trail on the rail line. (can't remember the name)

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Post #: 3

RE: Japan Declares War against Western Imperialism - Xa... - 11/2/2004 1:02:56 AM

Reiryc

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Also, I think the prep points is really going to hurt you during the first 6 months. I almost think you should get a reprieve from that rule until like May 1st or something.

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Post #: 4

RE: Japan Declares War against Western Imperialism - Xa... - 11/2/2004 1:16:44 AM

2ndACR

Posts: 5665
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From: Irving,Tx
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You will have to use 4500 size AP's for a turn 1 invasion of Kendari. The other ones will be 2-4 hexes away at the end of turn 1. I would go for Kendari turn 2 though.

The Mersing invasion can be very costly for you. I tried it and got butchered by air power and POW battle group.

Better to invade the base above there with 1 of the 300 size brigades and then march overland to cut off the Northern forces. Or 2 of them.

You could also split 2 CV's off from KB and send them either to Wake or to the Southern part of the DEI to commence duck hunting early. Every CVL, CVE should be at Palau at the start of turn 2 to relieve the CV's if you go that route. I send alot of 3000, 4500 AP's to Bangkok and pick up the Imperial Div for use in the PI. Also send alot to Haiphong and pick up the division there for the PI. Plus the divisions in Japan proper.

I use mass force in the PI to conquer it faster. Malaya will around January 14, 1942 if you can cut off the Northern forces.

(in reply to Reiryc)

Post #: 5

RE: Japan Declares War against Western Imperialism - Xa... - 11/2/2004 1:24:57 PM

Oliver Heindorf

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I think Kuching is as good as Balikapan, at Kuching you can interrupt any early shipping that comes along , it takes only a brigade to capture and has a size 4 port/AF. maybe you take both of them to cut off 2 ways off ?

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RE: Japan Declares War against Western Imperialism - Xa... - 11/2/2004 1:46:02 PM

String

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Don't pound PH after turn 1. Instead send your carriers to north to refuel and then retreat northwards out of catalina range, and head east to hunt down some tf's between PH and west coast. There are bound to be some crippled ships heading for the repair yards in SF

(in reply to Oliver Heindorf)

Post #: 7

RE: Japan Declares War against Western Imperialism - Xa... - 11/2/2004 6:37:04 PM

kaiser73

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About Mersing

Are you sure you can cut off allied troops?

I tried it in my PBEM and i found out you don't achieve much.

In order to cut off Allied units from Singapore you need to:
1) conquer Mersing (4 days)
2) move to Johore Bahru (4 days)
3) conquer Johore Bahru (time depends if Allies don't reinforce it when they see you unloading at mersing)
4) move units to Singapore
After that no unit from north can reach Singapore.

Keep present that, as the game is now, even if you hold Johore Bahru, Allies can simply move to johore bahru and then to Singapore. So to succussefully split units you need to have units in singapore too.

Now how long does it take to do the 4 points? i think 15 days is already very optimistic. In the scenario where Allies reinforce Johore Bahru while you are busy doing 1) and 2) you may need more than 2 divs to conquer it and more than 15 days for sure.
Allies have RR, so they can move units very fast. in 15 days they can move all the units in Singapore.

PS: if you decide to land at mersing, pick a Zero Daitai and use for LR CAP over the fleet. and a big surface group to defend. That way you won't lose much. In my PBEM i didn't lose a lot. But my enemy was able to move all untis to singapore (and i had landed on Mersing and Johore Bahru at same time).

(in reply to Xargun)

Post #: 8

RE: Japan Declares War against Western Imperialism - Xa... - 11/4/2004 3:56:06 AM

Xargun

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Well the war has begun. I have sent Rob my opening turn and am awaiting its return - hopefully tonight. I am attacking all over the place

Below is a list of bases being invaded on turn 1:

Malaya: Kuantan and Khota Bharu
PI: Laoag, Lingayan, San Marcelino, Lamon Bay, Legaspi, Batan Is, Dadjanges and Davao
Borneo: Kuching
DEI: Kendari and Balikpapin
Other: Guam, Tarawa and Makin Island

Most of my opening invasions are being conducted by Brigade or larger units with divisions waiting for transport - not enough APs where I need them on turn 1. I expect easy victories at Guam, Tarawa, Makin Island, Balikpapin, Kendari, Batan Is, Dadjanges, Lamon Bay and Lingayan - most of these locations are empty but a few have minor enemy units there.

My aircraft are hitting most of the northern airfields in Malaya as well as Singapore as hard as I can trying to kill RN bombers on the ground. I am also hitting Clark Field heavily as normal... I am bombing the troops in Hong Kong and attempting to hit the RN DDs in port there - since our rules do not forbid port attack in Hong Kong

The KB is hitting PH with some changing of missions... I have 4 of the 6 Val groups hitting the airfields only with the other 2 on Naval Attack / Rest. All 6 Kates are hitting the port with the Zeros escorting and strafing the airfield. On turn 2 I will switch the Vals to city attack and bomb the repair yards.

My Baby CVs are all heading into the DEI with the CVs from Japan stopping just south of Davao for a turn to hit Cagayan airfield - trying to kill some B-17s on the ground before he can evacuate them.

My other baby CV TF (from Palau) is supporting the invasion of Kendari just in case Rob tries anything there.

All of my invasions are supported with either surface or bombardment TFs... Kuantan and Kuching have the heaviest support as they are very close to Force Z in Singapore - one has 2 BB and cruisers, the other has 3 BBs and cruisers - so if Force Z comes out I am ready for her. I also have a cruiser-heavy TF supporting the invasion at Balikpapin due to the high enemy warship count in the area - lots of DDs and numerous CLs around.

In china I am heading for Yenen, Ichang and Changsha, as well as pulling all units out of unimportant bases so I can have more forces to attack with.

My subs are spreading out all over the DEI - concentrating at a few chokepoints and around Singapore. Also have several subs near Soerbaja and Palembang incase Rob tries to ship oil out. The subs around PH have been dispersed - about 10 towards the west coast, another 2-4 towards Midway, a couple to the South Pacific and the rest around the Northern half of PH. My subs are also lying in wait near Wake for the US CVs should they decide to show up. I also have subs being pulled back to Truk and Kwajalein for troop transport missions.

The subs from Hiroshima have been loaded with mines and are mining Singapore

and .... Hmmm I don't remember... Oh well... I am also using the MLs in Formosa and Hainan to lay a field of mines just west of Bataan to catch ships fleeing Manilla - mostly subs.. Would love to have even 1 sub hit a mine.

Back home in Japan I have expanded a lot of industries, halted some aircraft production (Nates, Idas and Claudes) and began my expansion of all ports. I have left aircraft production alone this turn to ease the strain of doing too much in one turn. I have converted 4 AS, 4 MLEs and 20 ARs. I plan on accelerating roughly half of those ships and when they arrive in 90 days building a second wave of ARs - like another 10... But that will depend on how well the first 3 months of the war go in terms of ship losses and damages.

Over 17 bases have had industry expanded - mostly shipyards (both naval and merchant), repair yards, armament & AFV factories as well as some HI.

I have used most of my starting pool of zeros already - upgrading baby CV Claude groups to zeros before sending them off to fight. Only 1 baby CV has a Claude based group on it - the one starting at Palau - it needed its fighters for turn 1 - the rest are mostly moving and have very low enemy air threat. By the time they need to have fighters the zeros onboard will be repaired and ready to go.

Not sure what else to post except that this game I may use my baby CVs to chase the fleeing allied warships down as soon as possible instead of messing around with the merchies... Most allied warships (at game start) are heading to Soerbaja so I may need to raid there within a couple turns... Will depend on how turn 1 goes...

Xargun

(in reply to kaiser73)

Post #: 9

RE: Japan Declares War against Western Imperialism - Xa... - 11/4/2004 5:28:03 AM

Tanaka

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

quote:

I am also going to land at Mersing (Malaya) instead of Kuantan and attempt to cut off the all the bases from singapore quickly.. I am thinking of dropping 2 divisions in Mersing to accomplish this..

I tried that, but it takes so long to cross the trail, that he can still get troops into singapore before you walk across. The only way around it, imo, is to land at the base across the trail on the rail line. (can't remember the name)

Johore Bharu...yes im trying that against the ai. only problem is its very far away to supply. you have no aircover. and the enemy planes blast u at will. and it takes 3 turns to land there. and then the defenses...it is very tough. especially with little supply! ...and of course Force Z and friends are waiting!

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 11/3/2004 10:29:37 PM >

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RE: Japan Declares War against Western Imperialism - Xa... - 11/4/2004 6:09:55 AM

Tanaka

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any reason you guys decided to go with allied damage control on this time around???

quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

yea Xargun I was wondering this as well

My reasoning behind it was that it will be hard enough to sink Allied ships without them having extra damage control - whether its historical or not. Everyone says the US had highly trained Damage Control parties... what about OZ ? England ? Dutch ? I dont think they all were that good and I'm sure not every ship was above average. With the amount of production the Allies have I saw no reason to give them another advantage of having their ships survive more hits than they should. Rob didn't object to it at all, so it was a done deal. I wouldn't care either way if I were playing the Allies either. Some people would object, some won't..

Xargun

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 11/3/2004 11:15:19 PM >

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Post #: 11

RE: Japan Declares War against Western Imperialism - Xa... - 11/5/2004 2:32:32 AM

Xargun

Posts: 3690
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From: Near Columbus, Ohio
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

any reason you guys decided to go with allied damage control on this time around???

Nothing really. Just felt it was probably right and sense I was getting what I wanted - the 12 training air groups - I wasn't gonna be greedy.. After some thinking if it survives my attacks and doesn't escape it doesn't really matter as my next wave will finish it...

Xargun

(in reply to Tanaka)

Post #: 12

Dec 7, 1941 - A Great Day for the Empire - 11/6/2004 4:11:31 PM

Xargun

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Well the first turn is done and I am waiting for turn 2 from Rob but let me rehash what has happened so far...

The war starts off with Allied subs hitting like 4 of my TFs - all invasion TFs. Two APs and an AK are hit - 1 AP later sinks - over 100 casualties reported - Not a good start. Near San Marcelino though the sub does not get off a shot and gets jumped on by my escorting PCs which manage to hit with 3 Depth Charges sinking the enemy sub !!! First kill of the game is mine and its a sub - YEAH !!!

My landings all go off without a hitch despite the efforts of enemy subs. My troops captured 3 bases on the 7th - Tarawa, Makin Is and Batan Is.. A lot of troops are ashore but only a few are given attack orders due to lack of supplies - most of them have 0 supplies with them and I didn't want to attack in that condition - I am unloading more troops and supplies everywhere and will make a full attack next turn.

My escorting TFs were all set to bombard to support my landings and hundreds of allied casualties were reported. At Kendari my TF caught 4 merchies at the port and hammered them - none sunk, but they can't be in good shape and are blockaded in the port. At Balikpapin my TF found 4 more allied ships (3 merchies and an AD) and beat up on them as well.. Unfortunately none were sunk again, but like Kendari these ships are stuck in the port with my TF waiting right outside...

My air raid on Hong Kong harbor proves costly with 10 Sonias lost to flak, and only 1 reported hit on RN DD Thracian - not the results I had hoped for.. Oh well, maybe I'll catch those DDs at sea this turn.

My air attacks against airfields in Malaya (and Clark Field) go fine ... except for the raid on Singapore... Weather prevented one strike and the second was not very good... Dozens of British bombers were able to launch from Singapore and hit my invasion fleets.. Luckily the concentrated on the escorting TFs and managed to bounce 2 bombs off the Fuso - she has minor damage (like 10 sys) and a little fire. But she will need a month in a repair yard to repair that damage and I'll be sending her as soon as my opening invasions are done and I know where Force Z is.

My attack on PH went good with 180 aircraft reported destroyed on the ground and lots of torpedo hits reported - all 8 BBs are reportedly hit with at least 1 torpedo and several bombs (800 kgs). As the smoke cleared 2 BBs (Tennessee and Pennsylvania) and a DD (Dale) sunk - my best day one PH ever.

4 Enemy subs have been found and ASW forces are converging on 2 of them - if they stay in the same spot.

At PH I have altered my air group's orders... My Vals are rotated into Naval Attack and City Attack - repair yards. 4 groups are hitting the repair yards and 2 are on Naval Attack / Rest. My zeros are simply on CAP and escort missions and the Kates are given orders to attack the port - hopefully more torps will find targets and get some more kills..

Day One air attacks have highly fatigued most of my air units (and lowered morale) so many of them are resting with several LR Bombers given naval attack orders to try to catch allied shipping - especially Force Z and the 3 RN DDs from Hong Kong..

Hopefully Rob will get the turn back to me soon so we can get some turns done this weekend.

Xargun

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Post #: 13

Aircraft Production - 11/7/2004 11:58:19 PM

Xargun

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From: Near Columbus, Ohio
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I haven't messed with aircraft production yet... what do you guys recommend ?

Xargun

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Post #: 14

RE: Aircraft Production - 11/8/2004 12:10:36 AM

madflava13

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End all Claude and Nate production - switch it to Zeros... Double Val and Kate production, as well as increasing Emily production. Make a pool of F1M2 Petes, than switch them to something else as well - just enough to cover ops losses. Otherwise it's a useless plane.

_____________________________

"The Paraguayan Air Force's request for spraying subsidies was not as Paraguayan as it were..."

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Post #: 15

RE: Aircraft Production - 11/8/2004 12:43:57 AM

Ron Saueracker

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Of course you should take Wake initially. KB hits PH for 1 day then sails west to cover Wake op. If the Allied player wants to get silly then say good-bye to 1/3 of his 1942 CV strength and any chance of holding off KB and Japanese thrusts during 1942. It's a win win situation playing either a sensible opponent or a crazoid.

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Post #: 16

RE: Aircraft Production - 11/8/2004 1:25:55 AM

Xargun

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I plan on using KB to cover the Wake invasion - Mogami taught me that trick in our PBEM game.. I just want to stick at PH for another day (probably 3 days total) and bomb the ships and repair facility some more.

I am also thinking of invading Johnson Island (I think thats the one) in late dec or early Jan as soon as I know where his CVs are. The island is in easy betty/nell range of PH and I can harrass him at leisure.. What do you guys think of this ? Is it worth it or is it too close to PH ?

Xargun

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)

Post #: 17

RE: Aircraft Production - 11/8/2004 1:27:40 AM

Xargun

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From: Near Columbus, Ohio
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quote:

ORIGINAL: madflava13

End all Claude and Nate production - switch it to Zeros... Double Val and Kate production, as well as increasing Emily production. Make a pool of F1M2 Petes, than switch them to something else as well - just enough to cover ops losses. Otherwise it's a useless plane.

I have halted all Claude, Nates and Ida production.. What should I do with the Ida factories ? The Ida is worthless as well and my starting pool has plenty to cover op losses in the 2 units I have - and I won't get any more... I plan on doubling Kate and increasing Vals as well - but in my expeirence I always have lots of Vals around and not enough Kates, so I may not double Val... But then I have never gotten out of Feb 42 in my games so maybe I will need more down the road...

Xargun

(in reply to madflava13)

Post #: 18

RE: Aircraft Production - 11/8/2004 1:31:21 AM

madflava13

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From: Alexandria, VA
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Put the Idas into anything else... More Zeros, More Oscars IIs, or research something...

If you take Johnson Island, I wouldn't plan on keeping it. It's too exposed to invasion and is within B-17 range of PH. He can pummel you from the air, then leisurely take the base back once you've parked all sorts of nice planes there. If you take it, just throw some NLFs and ENGs on it and make him pay to take it back. Same thing if you decide to go for Midway. Neither base is worth more IMHO...

_____________________________

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Post #: 19

RE: Aircraft Production - 11/8/2004 1:32:11 AM

Ron Saueracker

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

I plan on using KB to cover the Wake invasion - Mogami taught me that trick in our PBEM game.. I just want to stick at PH for another day (probably 3 days total) and bomb the ships and repair facility some more.

I am also thinking of invading Johnson Island (I think thats the one) in late dec or early Jan as soon as I know where his CVs are. The island is in easy betty/nell range of PH and I can harrass him at leisure.. What do you guys think of this ? Is it worth it or is it too close to PH ?

Xargun

I would not take a base within B-17 range of PH. Just too big and any base would be unservicable in a matter of days. Johnston and Midway are smaller and many players won't station too many B-17s on them (Midway) as Wake is the only target.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Xargun)

Post #: 20

8 December 1941 - 11/8/2004 4:43:28 AM

Xargun

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From: Near Columbus, Ohio
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Well where to start...

I landed a lot of troops through the night and the next day and only took limited CD gunfire in return - a couple PG/PCs took a couple hits, but nothing that won't make it back to base.

During the night some allied ships attempted to flee Kendari but were intercepted by my warships there and mauled - an allied AK and AP sunk - no damage in return. Also during the night 4 allied DDs (from Manilla I believe) cmae upon my TF laying mines west of Bataan and attacked.. 1 ML sunk and another hurt - I ordered them to retreat back to base, but apparantly they didn't want to and stayed around a little too long..

A lone allied AK tried to make it past my naval blockade at Balikpapin and was overcome with gunfire and quickly sunk.

IJN Subs locate and torpedo an allied AK and ML - the ML sunk quickly.

Rob attacked Bangkok with some bombers from Rangoon - but they accomplished no real damage and killed nothing.

Some Nells stationed in Saigon (Naval Attack) located a large TF near Palembang and hit it. 3 allied MSW were torpedoed and all reported sunk. I believe they are fleeing from Singapore.

My Baby CVs located another dutch ML and sunk him as well. Thats 2 MLs killed - should dampen his mine laying ability for a while. The Baby CVs also located a pair of AKs fleeing Borneo and put some torps into them too - one sunk the other limped away burning. They also located a pair of DDs and hit one with a pair of torps - it later sank.

Nells based in Formosa spotted some allied PGs at Bataan and struck. Both were hit with torps, but only one sunk. The other should be able to limp back to Manilla before it sinks.

I am not happy with Nagumo... the KB only launched one airgroup - a group of zeros set to fighter sweep over PH... They encountered half dozen enemy fighters and did not engage - no kills on either side.. No other air strikes were launched from KB... There was some weather in the AM phase, but it moved off in the PM phase.. Not happy about this.. I needed to hit that base again...

On the ground my men reduced the forts at Balikpapin and Davao - both should fall next turn. My men also captured Lamon Bay, Dadjanges and Lingayen. An entire division is unloading at Lingayen - they did not partake in the initial invasion to avoid losses unloading over the beach. So once they unload and spend a day resting, they will be fresh to move on to Clark Field and block other PI units from retreating there.

In all not a bad day. If the KB would have hit PH again it would be a good day. In total 11 allied ships sunk, including 3 MSW, 2 ML and a single DD... With how much Rob likes mines the loss of the MSWs and MLs should hurt his plans.

Xargun

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)

Post #: 21

RE: 8 December 1941 - 11/8/2004 5:40:42 AM

2ndACR

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From: Irving,Tx
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I am assuming you guys are playing a slightly modified Scenario 15 and not Lemurs version?

Since I only play with Lemurs ver, I can be no help with long term production. Me and Ron are up to 7/42 in our game. We are averaging a month of game time per week.

(in reply to Xargun)

Post #: 22

RE: 8 December 1941 - 11/8/2004 5:48:12 AM

Xargun

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

I am assuming you guys are playing a slightly modified Scenario 15 and not Lemurs version?

Since I only play with Lemurs ver, I can be no help with long term production. Me and Ron are up to 7/42 in our game. We are averaging a month of game time per week.

Yes. It is basically scenario 15 with 12 training air groups for the japanese along with some house rules. Wow, a month of game time per week thats keeping you both busy.. Wish I had that kind of time...

Xargun

(in reply to 2ndACR)

Post #: 23

RE: 8 December 1941 - 11/8/2004 6:18:40 AM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

Yeah. Cooking with flamethrowers. Wish my subs would fire!!!!

How long does this neutered doctrine last? Mid 43!!? Ughhhh. Game's great otherwise. Land combat still kinda weird. Too much fun.

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(in reply to Xargun)

Post #: 24

RE: Aircraft Production - 11/8/2004 5:46:58 PM

Oznoyng

Posts: 818
Joined: 4/16/2004
From: Mars
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I am a big fan of expanding production on a few aircraft: the A6M2, the H8K, and the Ki-46.

The H8K and the Ki-46 are your eyes and ears. The sooner they get into your Daitai, the better off you are. The Ki-46 means you can recon farther into enemy territory with fewer ops losses - meaning fewer planes you need to build and fewer pilots you need to train. The H8K increases your patrol range by 6 hexes, which is a considerable advantage. The H8K is also capable of conducting night bombing raids. I have seen more AAR's bemoaning what happened because of what the players *thought* was located in an area...

As for the A6M2, it is a great aircraft, but you need to use it early to have maximum effect. For that reason, I really suggest bumping up the production on it. I bump production up to 200 and then halt it when I get a big enough pool. One key thing to do is to increase your A6M2 production by converting factories, not by expanding one big factory. Later in the war, diverse engine/plane production will be important once bombing starts. However, the main reason to expand production is to get production earlier. Consider this:

I upgrade a single factory to produce an extra 100 A6M2's. My added production looks like this:

12/8: (99)x1
12/9: (98)x2
12/10: (97)x3
12/11: (96)x4
etc.

Now, look at a situation where I convert the 3 and 8 capacity Alf plants to around 32 each, the A5M4 plant to 32, and add about 32 to an existing small plant:

12/8: (124)x4
12/9: (120)x8
12/10: (116)x12
12/11: (112)x16
etc.

I reach full production in mid-January in the second case, but reach it sometime in March in the first. Along the way, case two allows me to take great advantage of the Zero's early war Manuever bonus and case one throws it away.

< Message edited by Oznoyng -- 11/8/2004 11:24:31 AM >

(in reply to madflava13)

Post #: 25

RE: Aircraft Production - 11/8/2004 5:57:20 PM

tsimmonds

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Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
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quote:

I reach full production in mid-January in the first case, but reach it sometime in March in the second.

Surely it's the other way round? Excellent post though.

< Message edited by irrelevant -- 11/8/2004 10:57:35 AM >

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Post #: 26

RE: Aircraft Production - 11/8/2004 7:24:54 PM

Oznoyng

Posts: 818
Joined: 4/16/2004
From: Mars
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

quote:

I reach full production in mid-January in the first case, but reach it sometime in March in the second.

Surely it's the other way round? Excellent post though.

Yep, I edited it. Thanks for catching that.

(in reply to tsimmonds)

Post #: 27

RE: Aircraft Production - 11/8/2004 9:22:59 PM

pauk

Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: madflava13

Double Val and Kate production

from experience in my pbem games, you could find yourself in situation that opponent will avoid CV battles. Yes, you will certantly need to expand Val and Kate production, but i dont think you will need more than 35 val and 40 kates per month....

secondly, i considering also what to do with nates factory. I notice that my big factory in Tokyo (119) researching Oscar II faster then switched (Harbin, Gumma) factories (to O II), with smaller capacity (20,25). After 3 months of research, in Harbin i have only 5 rd points (of 20). So i'm not sure if really worth it research new ac (all together i have 51 rd oscar points after 3 months). Maybe it is better to halt factories and let it auto upgrade (i think it was your idea (Xargun) or Oznoyng.)

Big Frank assembly in Tokyo (capacity 320) make rd points pretty quickly (right now i have 41), so i plan in future games let it to research...

(in reply to madflava13)

Post #: 28

RE: Aircraft Production - 11/8/2004 9:46:34 PM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk

quote:

ORIGINAL: madflava13

Double Val and Kate production

from experience in my pbem games, you could find yourself in situation that opponent will avoid CV battles. Yes, you will certantly need to expand Val and Kate production, but i dont think you will need more than 35 val and 40 kates per month....

secondly, i considering also what to do with nates factory. I notice that my big factory in Tokyo (119) researching Oscar II faster then switched (Harbin, Gumma) factories (to O II), with smaller capacity (20,25). After 3 months of research, in Harbin i have only 5 rd points (of 20). So i'm not sure if really worth it research new ac (all together i have 51 rd oscar points after 3 months). Maybe it is better to halt factories and let it auto upgrade (i think it was your idea (Xargun) or Oznoyng.)

Big Frank assembly in Tokyo (capacity 320) make rd points pretty quickly (right now i have 41), so i plan in future games let it to research...

It's not so much that CV battles are avoided, at least in my case. I don't commit CV unless there is a solid reason to do so.

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Post #: 29

9 December 1941 - 11/9/2004 12:36:53 AM

Xargun

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline

Another day in the war against the Imperialists.. Kind of a mixed bag I guess.

Lots of ASW and sub action this turn - I'll start with the bad news...

Allied DDs locate and damage I-19 off the west coast. The sub has moderate damage but has high flt damage (66) and I doubt she will make it safely home, although I will try. A large TF consisting of 8 DDs run over I-24 and sink her in the central pacific. Since the allies have nothing in the area to start, I'm assuming its one of the CV TFs heading south. I'm sure they have a lot of DDs escorting them - if only I would have got off a shot

Off the coast of Soerbaja a small allied TF managed to locate and sink I-155 without her getting off a shot.

I sent a PG dominated ASW TF off the coast of Malaya where I spotted a sub on turn 1. The dutch sub was still there and I managed to sink it without it getting off a shot in return. IJN SS I-154 adds another kill to its list by hitting and sinking an allied AP as it passed near Palembang. SS I-164 entered the war by hitting and sinking another allied AP off the coast of Muntok.

On the surface a Tf of 6 PTs showed up at Legaspi and attack one of my invasion TFs - somehow they manage to pick the TF with minor escort - a couple PCs - and not the one with numerous DD escorts. In a one-sided battle, the PTs sink a PC and cripple an AP and PC. The PC was scuttled due to 90+ flt damage and nowhere to run to.

One of my invasion escort TFs reacted and encountered a lone allied AK and blew it apart.

Nagumo got his head out of the clouds and launch a massive 2nd attack on PH this turn - over 300 planes were involved. 17 Allied fighters made it into the sky in defense but they were ineffectual in attacking the bombers and were shot out of the sky by my zeros. As the zeros flew CAP my Vals hit the airfields and repair yards and the Kates ran along battleship row again. Mostly bombs were used on the port attack, but a few torps found their way into the sides of BBs and a CL. BB Nevada took 4 torp hits while the West Virginia took 2 - California and Maryland each took 1 torp. Several cruisers were hit with 800 kg bombs as well. Despite nothing being sunk, I believe this wave had a devastating affect on the status of the BBs - they should all be highly damaged now. My Vals managed to hit the repair yards quite hard as well, reporting 10 hits - which is 22 points of repair yards damaged (Checked Intel report for Strategic Losses).

I am planning another day of attacking PH - airfield, repair yards and port once more. Depending on how well the port attacks go, I will probably withdraw after this last wave. I plan on sending 2 CVs around behind PH to intercept allied TFs heading between PH and the west coast - just not sure of the timing to show them...

In bad news, RAF bombers from Singapore attacked and hit several IJN TFs along the coast of Malaya damaging 1 AP and causing a scorch mark on a BB. I need to hit Singapore airfields hard and soon, but all of my long-range bombers are highly fatigued and have low morale - they get one more day of rest then they get pressed into combat whether they want too or not.

Fighters from Manilla strafe several IJN TFs off the coast of Luzon causing minor damage to some APs.

One of my Baby CVs located and attacked an allied cruiser. 5 Torps reportedly hit the heavy cruiser Houston, splitting her apart and sinking her. My baby CVs launched many other Kates are various targets but nothing else was hit

Rob launched another air raid on Bangkok and was met with a score of Nates. In the end the British air attack was driven off before any bombs were dropped and a pair of Buffalos and a Blenheim were shot down with no losses amongst my Nates.

Now the good news.. On the ground the IJA really got it done this turn capturing 9 bases including: Legaspi (1200 POWs), Kendari, Belikpapin, Kuching, Changsha (resources fully intact), San Marcelino, Davao, Guam and Laoag. I am already moving fighters and long range bombers to Kendari and Balikpapin as well as a chutai of Nells to Kuching to try to hit the fleeing allied ships. Hong Kong and Yenen still hold on, but attacks will continue there. In not such a surprise move, Rob has moved 4 chinese units into Nanning. It is probably an even fight and will come down to the first attack - how much damage he takes... I have a full Bde and a BF there and they sit behind 2 or 3 forts. I have no units to rush there larger than SNLFs and I have a couple on the way, but they are 3-4 days away at best so hopefully the base can hold.

Not much else is happening yet. I want to make some moves in the South Pacific from Truk, but don't have the air or naval power there to support any real offensives, so I must wait. After a couple more days of bombing Manilla and Clark Field, I will transfer the long-range bombers from Formosa down to Truk to provide protection against any allied attacks. Until then Truk is kinda exposed - especially against air attacks - but luckily the US CVs are 4-5 days away at best speed - unless they want to cut past Kwajalein and take the hits from the bombers based there...

In all I sunk 8 allied ships this turn (1 Sub, 3 APs, 2 AKs, 1 MSW and a CA) while losing 2 PCs (1 sunk, 1 scuttled) and 2 Subs. Not a bad trade, but I'd rather have not lost the subs..

Xargun

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)

Post #: 30