Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

Planes:

Guess that you'll have to engage them when you attack their base with LCU's. Otherwise the Sturmovik will make you pay dearly (just a guess, as I never tried, but seems at least reasonable).

Supplies:

Maybe, but what happens when China chooses to attack you while you're busy elsewhere. Of course you could take back the lost terrain later, but you'll still need enough supplied troops in China to hold your most important positions.

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Japanese attack Russia in 41 would have been a rude surprise for Stalin and could have meant the loss of Moscow in the West.

Beezle - Rapidly running out of altitude, airspeed and ideas.

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ORIGINAL: Beezle

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Japanese attack Russia in 41 would have been a rude surprise for Stalin and could have meant the loss of Moscow in the West.

Rude surprise, yes. Why would that have led to the fall of Moscow? I seriously doubt Stalin would have rushed troops away from Moscow in late '41 to reinforce Vladivostok.

In the game, and in Real Life, the main result of a Japanese attack on Russia would be sending a bunch of troops the Japanese could use elsewhere into a sideshow that could not possibly help them in the long term.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kaiser73

To Xargun:

Russia has 7k Assault points, i think for a fast victory (2 months) you need at least 12k Assault points.

I mean, here we are talking about annhilating 7000 Assault Points. no way you can do that with 10k.

About Starving the russians as Hirohito says, startving takes time. a Unit takes a month to finish the supply ONCE the base has run out. Given the supplies Russians have, to starve them it will take 2-3 months.

Prolly you can take amboina and kendari and borneo and mindanao. Surely not Java, sumatra.

IJN can cut off Philippines. But Phi have their own resources. it will take time to starve them, lot of.

I repeat, i can't see Japan winning Russia in 2 months. Many forget the logistic. it will be like 3-4months. and once you have won there you will lose a month to rest your troops and move back in china.
Then you will still need months to kill the chinese. and it will take lot of time to beat china. Hell, it takes 2 weeks just to move units from Sians to Chunking... 3 months is the minimum to win in China and annhilating chinese.

so russia (3,5) + 1 for redeply and rest + (3,5) china is 8 months at best. SO you are in september '42. going to india as you suggest will take lot of time. Takes 1 month just to move units from china to burma and to move by sea some divs to india.

Again, i think you don't have enough time to win in india.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

Hirohito;

Glad to see you are back, and your tone is much more humble this time. Very nice discussions here.

Your plan is not viable. You NEED to take DEI while you can and pulling forces out of the Southern Army to attack Russia is a recipe for disaster; much like your previous proposed plan. However it does score points for originality.

For a variant that I think will work (and I think would work in reality), see:

http://www.svein.org/senkou/index.shtml ALL MY PBEM OPPONENTS NOT ALLOWED TO VIEW

Historically speaking: Japan should have made an all out effort in China - and then turned on Russia in spring 1942 after Russia had transferred forces west.

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The oil production that you get conquering russia and then china makes up for delaying the conquest of DEI, does it not?

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ORIGINAL: 3rd ACR Tanker

Not a bad plan, to a degree. However, I do have some reservations about it working exactly as you think it would go:

1. Supply in the short term probably will not hurt to bad at first. However, once you start to move inland on China, you have to remember, you are moving further away from your supply nodes, where as the Chinese are falling back upon theirs, and India's. So, one glitch in supply, you've got problems.

2. PI's are up and running for the Allies, and India / Burma has some long range AC from decent bases. As allied, since I no longer have to interdict convoy's running from SRA and the Central Pacific back to Japan, I use all available subs to start interdicting your ports (except inland Sea of Japan) and any outgoing supply convoys from the Home Islands and vice versa. As you're chasing down my subs, I'm burning up your fuel reserves at an alarming rate, solidifying my SW pacific bastions and gearing up for a reposite sometime in late 42 to early 43. My A/C are bombing your Mainland china ports, SEA ports and again attriting valuable supplies and fuel stocks.

3. With no concerted effort to work over the SRA, except for a few spots, I'm able to begin to extracate the resources / oil / fuel back to OZ and the long route to India to help bolster the supply issues there. US is sending a couple of additional TF's to OZ and other Central / South Pacific key supply nodes for follow on actions. Meanwhile, I'm mining and setting up interdiction assets for your run around Malaya to get to India / Burma, which is a heavly predicated operation for your success in the CBI.

4. I really don't see Russia paying that much of a concern to losing Siberia at this point. Japan is not a threat to European Russia at this point in time, and Stalin would not release additional troops to the Far East. Yes, I do believe that Russia's loss of Far Eastern troops would hurt them initially, however, seeing as the Germans' were not prepared for any other operation lasting longer than 6 months, factor in the weather (lousy winter which they were ill prepared for) and I believe that the only difference on the Eastern Front would have been a delay in getting off the Soviets' offensives by about 6 to 9 months at most against mostly stabalized lines. The only thing I see the Soviets really getting up tight about is the Trans Siberian lend lease shipments they were getting from the US in terms of Aircraft transfers (if memory serves me proper), only these would have been cut out and would have been shipped via the North Sea supply lines.

Overall, not a bad strategy, however once again, total success on Japan's part would be contengient on intial overwhelming and near perfect execution. Short term goals achievable, however, once again long term goals are seriously lacking. There is no buffer zone to collapse upon as the Allies are gearing up for offensive action. Navy will be stronger due to not losing ships / merchant assets early on. Air Force able to have an impact upon operations earlier than historical and/or planned. This would heavily rely upon no American involvement what so ever for the first 9 months to a year (assuming PH never occurs). Once again, I do not see the US standing patiently by doing nothing.

Not a bad plan, if (<-- note) if, there is an additional plan to be executed in the wings to conduct southern,eastern and central pacific operations to counter US / British counter moves. Enjoyed the thinking you have provoked. And if anyone see's flaws in my observations, please correct them as it will aid me in understaning the Pacific theater better...

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while 10 divisions launch amphibious landings on both coasts of India. After India falls,

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ORIGINAL: moses

You can hardly talk about realism here when it is clear that this kind of plan is only viable in the game and not in the real world. The idea that Japan could have shifted tons of divisions to Russia, defeat them in a lightning winter campaign, shift everything to China, conquer all of China in 4 or 5 months, then shift to India and defeat the forces there is a total fantasy. It is impossible beyond belief.

In the game it is possible because the game does not model large land campaigns all that well. Most important is that things happen at least twice and probably 3 or 4 times as fast as in real life.

It might be fun to try this in the game to see how it goes. But we should not then start bringing in what ifs about added rewards for doing so. You get no extra rewards because in real life it was flat impossible.

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ORIGINAL: Tankerace

No offense, but here is an Allied counter attack strategy. You say that you won't skip Pearl harbor, but you will abandon taking the Central Pacific, and you plan to grab the DEI and such after Russia falls. In that time, With my RN, and ABDA forces, I could easily cut off your supply lines, and force a landing in French Indo China. As any troops that you could rapidly shift to counter this would be in Siberia, I could have a considerable beachhead, supported by Indian units no longer needed in the defense of India. With that beachhead, I could stack it with bombers, and interdict any attempt of yours to land on Malay. Every hour you fight in Russia, I grow stonger.

Then, I would form a good sized task force, and get 1 to 2 good divisions, via Australia, to the Phillippine Islands. While it may not stop you from taking them, by the time you get around to it, it will stall you from taking it long enough that when you do, your industry will collapse and force you out of the war.

While I'm doing that, I will take the 1st and 2nd USMC, and make a landing in the Pacific. Ideally I would take kwajelein. Reletively lightly defended, an all out assault should grab the island. With this, I can seriously hamper your Pacific gains.

And, through all of this time, I would blockade your ports. Mining ports, and putting my subs around Soviet bases and Korea, I can seriously harass your shipping. For every transport I sink that carries goods to the Soviet front, that is less supplies on that front meaning alonger campaign, and 1 less transport that can shift troops to offensive operations. With your Zekes knocking out the Russian airforce, I can strengthen my hold on the PI, and shoot down any bombers that try to attack it. By the time you get around to it, you'll be facing a ready, prepared, and reinforced enemy.

By the time you are in aposition to begin taking the PI and DEI, (after India "falls") I will have enough ships and planes to begin a counterattck. With several Centpac bases already in my hands, I can invade islands at my leisure, straight up to Japan. And then you have a choice. Starve yourself resource wise and defend Japan, or take the DEI and have Tokyo blasted by B-17s in 1943.

And even if you DO take the DEI, it will still be in my favor, as 1) Russia has no plans in my war, 2) It is 1943-1944, and you have had no holdings in the Sopac or centpac area, and 3) my subs have sank so many of your transports, that your troops will be stranded, and the amount of resources you can get back to Japan is minimal, especially if I can get a foothold in the Marianas.

Quite simply, it would be a downhill fight for me all the way.

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ORIGINAL: sveint

quote:

while 10 divisions launch amphibious landings on both coasts of India. After India falls,

You make it sound so easy. Hirohito please play a game and post an AAR. Then come back and talk. Better yet try any of these strategies. Anyone can think grand - but it's execution that matters.

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ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Attacking Russia, "just for fun" is suicide. The only way you could do it is if you sank everything in the US and Japanese inventory, and had control of the Pacific. Then you could let your troops get slaughtered in Siberia. Otherwise, for a serious game, it would be best to go with the normal plan of taking the DEI and the PI. Oil is good. Tanks and Battlewagons love it.

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ORIGINAL: moses

I did a quick look around Russia. Does anyone else think it looks like Japan can take it very easily and quickly? Has anyone tried this? I had thought it should be a tough war and that Japan would need to bring in lots of forces to take Russia out. But an admittedly very quick and superficial look at the Russian deployments makes me feel it would be pretty easy.