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Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 5:58:16 PM   
color

 

Posts: 324
Joined: 7/24/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline 		2by3Games are pleased to bring you yet another entry in our famous developers journal. The new entry is packed with information, the longest in the journal until todays date.

Among the topics we present to you this time are patches for War in the Pacific and Uncommon Valor, status on World at War and word from the developers on what's going to happen with UV Mediterranean. And finally, but not least, don't miss out the large section where exciting news about the future releases of 2by3Games are revealed!!

Click here to to open the developers journal.


Jorgen Vasshaug
Webmaster
2by3Games
Post #: 1
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 6:13:12 PM   
moses

 

Posts: 2252
Joined: 7/7/2002
Status: offline 		Oh my God!! A strategic Civil War game and War in Russia. I am in heaven.

(in reply to color)
Post #: 2
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 6:30:43 PM   
Embark


Posts: 138
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		Makes you want to buy GGWAW just to support these guys future products huh?

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The tragedy of war is that it uses man's best to do man's worst.
Henry Fosdick

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Post #: 3
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 6:33:21 PM   
strawbuk


Posts: 289
Joined: 4/30/2004
From: London via Glos
Status: offline 		Uh huh - but read rest re WITP - now let's be really cardful what we wish for in patch 1.4 (espeically in systems not oob) because if it ever happens it looks like it will be the last...

And I bet few Sauercrackerisms or similar make it - to much and no resource to do it. Understandable but not reassured about what happens if us normal mortals hit a big bug in 1944

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Post #: 4
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 6:37:58 PM   
Admiral Scott


Posts: 625
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Syracuse, NY USA
Status: offline 		I wouldn't have purchased a Med version of W.I.T.P., BUT I WILL BUY A CIVIL WAR GAME!!!!!
Good choice.

(in reply to moses)
Post #: 5
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 6:39:09 PM   
U2


Posts: 3332
Joined: 7/17/2001
From: Västerås,Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: moses

Oh my God!! A strategic Civil War game and War in Russia. I am in heaven.


Eastern Front

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Post #: 6
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 6:48:22 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: strawbuk

Uh huh - but read rest re WITP - now let's be really cardful what we wish for in patch 1.4 (espeically in systems not oob) because if it ever happens it looks like it will be the last...

And I bet few Sauercrackerisms or similar make it - to much and no resource to do it. Understandable but not reassured about what happens if us normal mortals hit a big bug in 1944


We'll continue to fix major bugs for sometime. Just don't expect an endless stream of new features or routines rewritten to attempt to increase the accuracy of the model by including new variables.

(in reply to strawbuk)
Post #: 7
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 6:51:30 PM   
tanker4145

 

Posts: 190
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		I'm very excited about the Civil War game. I'd like to see how they do a med game with the GGWAW engine. I think it could be pretty cool if they scale it right. I'm defiantely getting GGWAW when it's out, mainly because I think I'll like it and I love the AARs, but also to help these guys make these great games.

(in reply to U2)
Post #: 8
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 7:11:53 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

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Post #: 9
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 7:28:35 PM   
fbastos


Posts: 827
Joined: 8/7/2004
Status: offline 		This is pretty much what I told before, that at some point in time 2by3/Matrix would stop working on it.

Consder this phrase:

"Lacking a good mechanism to charge additional money for retrofitting WitP features into UV (and enough customers willing to pay), we just can't afford to undertake this time-consuming development work."

This is what's going to happen with WiTP too. I think all comes down to money; we got what we paid for, so I come again to my point, that was... why not pay for WiTP 2.0?

Say there are 5,000 folks willing to pay $20 for an upgrade of the game engine; I'm sure they wouldn't refuse our $100K to work on improvements we desire. Otherwise, 1.4 will be the last with engine changes.

Heck, I could pay say $10 per month for constant upgrades on the game; perhaps many other folks would do it for say $5 per month.

F.

< Message edited by fbastos -- 11/9/2004 5:36:45 PM >

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Post #: 10
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 7:40:20 PM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		Well, that about wraps it up for me. I can understand that they're sick and tired of wrasslin' with WitP, and I see the problem presented by limited sales projections. As the sign the little boy put over his dead goldfish's grave said, "He was fun while he lasted."

I never had any interest in what I have seen of the WaW system, and I long since got tired of WWII Eastern Front, probably due to the huge number of board games I have played over the years that covered the subject to the nth detail.

I'll check in with 'em from time to time in order to see if they've got anything coming up that butters my corn. Meantime, there's WitP to be played and EiA, GoA, and WiF to be bought. I hope that Matrix continues to pursue challenging simulations geared toward the serious wargaming audience.

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 11
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 7:42:20 PM   
ZOOMIE1980

 

Posts: 1284
Joined: 4/9/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tanker4145

I'm very excited about the Civil War game. I'd like to see how they do a med game with the GGWAW engine. I think it could be pretty cool if they scale it right. I'm defiantely getting GGWAW when it's out, mainly because I think I'll like it and I love the AARs, but also to help these guys make these great games.


Still trying to get my handle on GGWAW and what they are doing there and what the underlieing advances in developmental techniques they've employed there. The interface and gameplay is a rather major departure from games like WitP, so I'm assuming the underlieing development environment is as well. Using non-proprietary plain text files for data will make it much easier for third-party user-mods, although it would have been interesting to see them take the additional step move towards structured disk files ala an SQL engine. Wondering if they are finally abandoning all that hardcoded, fixed 'C'-style array based DOS-like stuff? Seems like they might be.

Gonna have to spend more time on that forum get a better idea of what that game is all about, since it appears it is going to be the basis of a lot of future titles. The style of play isn't all that appealing to me, but if I spend more time on it, it may grow on me. The notion of movement and combat occuring at the same time is rather fascinating. It will be interesting to see how they pull that off.

< Message edited by ZOOMIE1980 -- 11/9/2004 5:43:14 PM >

(in reply to tanker4145)
Post #: 12
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 8:29:21 PM   
Peter Fisla


Posts: 2503
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I'm very much pleased with WitP and I will continue to play for long time to come; I don't think something like this will be out again in the near future.

Joel Billings comments: "We'll continue to fix major bugs for sometime. Just don't expect an endless stream of new features or routines rewritten to attempt to increase the accuracy of the model by including new variables. "

Joel, my question to you: I do realize that there is so much a person can do for a project within a given time I was wondering when time runs out for WitP or better say when developers will have to focus on the future project only is there any chance that some of us from the community can step and help with future code cleanup and new features for WitP ? Seems WitP engine is not an option for future projects however I would be happy to step in and help out with WitP further development; for free of charge of course.

Regards,

Peter Fisla

PS: My skills - C/C++, WinAPi 32, MFC

< Message edited by Peter Fisla -- 11/9/2004 6:31:43 PM >

(in reply to ZOOMIE1980)
Post #: 13
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 8:43:45 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

I'm very much pleased with WitP and I will continue to play for long time to come; I don't think something like this will be out again in the near future.

Joel Billings comments: "We'll continue to fix major bugs for sometime. Just don't expect an endless stream of new features or routines rewritten to attempt to increase the accuracy of the model by including new variables. "

Joel, my question to you: I do realize that there is so much a person can do for a project within a given time I was wondering when time runs out for WitP or better say when developers will have to focus on the future project only is there any chance that some of us from the community can step and help with future code cleanup and new features for WitP ? Seems WitP engine is not an option for future projects however I would be happy to step in and help out with WitP further development; for free of charge of course.

Regards,

Peter Fisla

PS: My skills - C/C++, WinAPi 32, MFC


That's something we'd have to take up with Matrix when the time comes. I wouldn't wish that work on anyone, but I realize that to some this could be fun. It's certainly a possibility down the road. Basically, from what I can tell, that's what Matrix and Mike Wood did for the original Pac War long after SSI had any ongoing interest.

(in reply to Peter Fisla)
Post #: 14
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 8:44:10 PM   
DrewMatrix


Posts: 1429
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline 		A new version of a strategic American Civil War game would be wonderful! That was actually what excited me the most of anything in the pipeline.

_____________________________


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Post #: 15
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 8:45:22 PM   
Chaplain

 

Posts: 133
Joined: 8/21/2003
Status: offline 		Thanks for the update. Very excited about the mega-East Front game. Could care less about GGWaW, which IMHO is just a (very) poor man's HOI2. But you can count on me for the Civil War game, and especially the huge EF game.

Steel Panthers IV? Well, if you can give the AI a brain - or even half a brain - and if you can modernize the graphics, then you can drag me away from my love affair with the Campaign Series.

(in reply to Peter Fisla)
Post #: 16
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 8:50:27 PM   
captskillet


Posts: 2493
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: Louisiana & the 2007 Nat Champ LSU Fightin' Tigers
Status: offline
quote:

BUT I WILL BUY A CIVIL WAR GAME!!!!!


Amen to that brother!!!!

Since the demise of Civil War Generals II I have surely missed my 2nd favorite war!!!!

< Message edited by captskillet -- 11/9/2004 12:54:59 PM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 17
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 8:54:52 PM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline 		Civil war? Yawn

East Front? Shrug - the full european theatre would have been so much more interesting.

(in reply to Chaplain)
Post #: 18
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 8:54:57 PM   
Peter Fisla


Posts: 2503
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

I'm very much pleased with WitP and I will continue to play for long time to come; I don't think something like this will be out again in the near future.

Joel Billings comments: "We'll continue to fix major bugs for sometime. Just don't expect an endless stream of new features or routines rewritten to attempt to increase the accuracy of the model by including new variables. "

Joel, my question to you: I do realize that there is so much a person can do for a project within a given time I was wondering when time runs out for WitP or better say when developers will have to focus on the future project only is there any chance that some of us from the community can step and help with future code cleanup and new features for WitP ? Seems WitP engine is not an option for future projects however I would be happy to step in and help out with WitP further development; for free of charge of course.

Regards,

Peter Fisla

PS: My skills - C/C++, WinAPi 32, MFC


That's something we'd have to take up with Matrix when the time comes. I wouldn't wish that work on anyone, but I realize that to some this could be fun. It's certainly a possibility down the road. Basically, from what I can tell, that's what Matrix and Mike Wood did for the original Pac War long after SSI had any ongoing interest.


Yeah that's what I had in mind; well if it's possible I would be happy to step-in and help.

Peter

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 19
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 8:56:13 PM   
Peter Fisla


Posts: 2503
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I would happy to see in the future Bombing the Reich Version 2; I would say WitP engine would be pretty good for it.

(in reply to Peter Fisla)
Post #: 20
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 9:28:58 PM   
testarossa


Posts: 952
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Beezle

A new version of a strategic American Civil War game would be wonderful! That was actually what excited me the most of anything in the pipeline.


That will probably limit the game's market to US only. Personally I have no interest in US civil war.

(in reply to DrewMatrix)
Post #: 21
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 9:29:24 PM   
ZOOMIE1980

 

Posts: 1284
Joined: 4/9/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

I'm very much pleased with WitP and I will continue to play for long time to come; I don't think something like this will be out again in the near future.

Joel Billings comments: "We'll continue to fix major bugs for sometime. Just don't expect an endless stream of new features or routines rewritten to attempt to increase the accuracy of the model by including new variables. "

Joel, my question to you: I do realize that there is so much a person can do for a project within a given time I was wondering when time runs out for WitP or better say when developers will have to focus on the future project only is there any chance that some of us from the community can step and help with future code cleanup and new features for WitP ? Seems WitP engine is not an option for future projects however I would be happy to step in and help out with WitP further development; for free of charge of course.

Regards,

Peter Fisla

PS: My skills - C/C++, WinAPi 32, MFC


I was going to ask that same thing. Once they've squeezed all the revenue they can out of it, it would be kind of nice to let some enterprising person/group carry it on as a future freebie ala PACWAR.

(in reply to Peter Fisla)
Post #: 22
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 9:33:03 PM   
ZOOMIE1980

 

Posts: 1284
Joined: 4/9/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: testarossa

quote:

ORIGINAL: Beezle

A new version of a strategic American Civil War game would be wonderful! That was actually what excited me the most of anything in the pipeline.


That will probably limit the game's market to US only. Personally I have no interest in US civil war.


I think the US Civil War would have a broadbased appeal due to it's place in history as a precursor to many of the things we saw in WWI, and the enormous size and scope of the conflict (larger than any European confolict up till that time). If US players have had interest in Napoleanic conflicts, Franco-Prussia, etc.... I can imagine a lot of Euro's would have interest in the American Civil War.

(in reply to testarossa)
Post #: 23
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 9:37:42 PM   
MButtazoni


Posts: 1494
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Milwaukee, WI
Status: offline 		so many opinions, so little understanding of GGWAW...

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Post #: 24
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 9:48:03 PM   
ZOOMIE1980

 

Posts: 1284
Joined: 4/9/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MButtazoni

so many opinions, so little understanding of GGWAW...


Yea, I need to invest some time over there.... On first sight, the game didn't appeal to me much. But I need a more in-depth look-see...

(in reply to MButtazoni)
Post #: 25
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 10:16:52 PM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		I must confess my dissapointment of no Medwar game, but that is no biggie. My only hope is that Witp will continue to be suported for at least as long as UV was.

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Post #: 26
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 10:20:20 PM   
pfnognoff


Posts: 631
Joined: 5/6/2003
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fbastos

Say there are 5,000 folks willing to pay $20 for an upgrade of the game engine; I'm sure they wouldn't refuse our $100K to work on improvements we desire. Otherwise, 1.4 will be the last with engine changes.

Heck, I could pay say $10 per month for constant upgrades on the game; perhaps many other folks would do it for say $5 per month.

F.


I too would hope something like this can become a reality. WiTP has incredible value for money from day one, it was playable and fun. Bugs should go out for free, but no upgrade after that sure is a disapointment. Ground movement needs improvement, retreat after combat needs improvement, night air missions need imporvement... I mean we are still just finding out how it all actually works.

Don't forget it is a game that takes over 1 year to finish PBeM. So if I'm to explore all the strategies I can come up with I would need to play it for quite a number of years. It will never leave the hard drive. But if it lacks support it might die, and that would be a shame.

Maybe the length WiTP takes to complete and time it consumes is also a factor why it will be stoped. I mean if we all just play WiTP we will not have time to play all the other new titles

I definatrely plan to try out Empires in Arms, and maybe GGWaW but those two combined with WiTP will consume so much free time, 24 hrs will not be enough in a day for us who need to work and sleep also.

(in reply to fbastos)
Post #: 27
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 10:23:33 PM   
testarossa


Posts: 952
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980

quote:

ORIGINAL: MButtazoni

so many opinions, so little understanding of GGWAW...


Yea, I need to invest some time over there.... On first sight, the game didn't appeal to me much. But I need a more in-depth look-see...


Same here.

(in reply to ZOOMIE1980)
Post #: 28
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 10:45:08 PM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: captskillet

quote:

BUT I WILL BUY A CIVIL WAR GAME!!!!!


Amen to that brother!!!!

Since the demise of Civil War Generals II I have surely missed my 2nd favorite war!!!!


Yes I am really looking forword to this one!!! I think you mean the demise of CivWArGens III by Sierra. They were supposed to make it but it never came out.
CivWarGens II was an ok game (very old now) but I always wanted a great full theater game. Hopefully Matrix will accomplish that!!!

American Civil War by Frank Hunter was full theater but is a very small scale and very dated game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

East Front? Shrug - the full european theatre would have been so much more interesting.


Yes I must say that half theater games such as the Mediterranean or the Eastern Front never have really interested me. But whole theater games like WITP I cant get enough of. I would be all about a War in Europe game though. Thats why I will probably check out GGWAW.

I also must say I do hope that WITP's life isnt already over. It is such a gem and has so much potential. I feel like it just got started and it kinda makes me sad they will stop working on it in a few months. It is now my favorite game of all time and probably will be for a very very long time..... Hopefully they will let us continue to improve this amazing game in some way!!!!

Nice to here about a future UV patch as well....what a nice little bonus!!!

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 11/9/2004 3:51:18 PM >

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Post #: 29
RE: Exciting update to 2by3Games' developers journal - 11/9/2004 10:53:28 PM   
pad152

 

Posts: 2871
Joined: 4/23/2000
Status: offline 		Wow, after reading the developers journal it sounds like Witp left a bad taste in everyone’s mouth and the Witp engine is dead.

Just my 2 cents;

UV - update, why bother, put the resources in adding a couple of more features in Witp.

WAW - little interest.

Civil War - little interest.

War in Russia - enjoyed the first one.

Steel Panthers - It seems to me that at one time every other Matrix game in development was a updated version of Steel Panthers. After Combat Mission I had a hard time enjoying SP.

Wish list;

1. A modern version of UV now that Harpoon is dead.

2. A new version of Computer Air Combat (My all time SSI favorite game).

3. A good turn based tactical squad level WWII game (AKA computer ambush). It's sad the original X-com game is still the best squad level based game.

(in reply to testarossa)
Post #: 30
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