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Recognize this? - 11/13/2004 3:54:50 AM   
mikemike

 

Posts: 501
Joined: 6/3/2004
From: a maze of twisty little passages, all different
Status: offline 		Sorry, the flying device blends into the background; hasnīt helped that I removed visible markings to make things more interesting. Extra points for designation of flying object, time and place.




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RE: Recognize this? - 11/13/2004 4:05:55 AM   
RUPD3658


Posts: 6922
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: East Brunswick, NJ
Status: offline 		Crew look German. I would say an auto gyro on a mine layer circa 1943

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RE: Recognize this? - 11/13/2004 7:43:10 AM   
Tiornu

 

Posts: 1126
Joined: 4/1/2004
Status: offline 		My oh Zmaj!
During her German period, so we'll call her Drache. That's a Flettner Fl-282 V6. Drache was used for trials in detecting subs and mines via choppers, but there wasn't a lot of success. A second chopper, an Fl-282 V10, was also allocated to the tests.
Note that the Germans also had another vessel named Drache, a training ship built c1908.

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RE: Recognize this? - 11/13/2004 10:37:07 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tiornu

My oh Zmaj!
During her German period, so we'll call her Drache. That's a Flettner Fl-282 V6. Drache was used for trials in detecting subs and mines via choppers, but there wasn't a lot of success. A second chopper, an Fl-282 V10, was also allocated to the tests.
Note that the Germans also had another vessel named Drache, a training ship built c1908.


Interesting!

BTW, "zmaj" is slavic word for "dragon" thus what ship was that exactly?


Leo "Apollo11"

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Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Tiornu)
Post #: 4
RE: Recognize this? - 11/13/2004 7:00:23 PM   
mikemike

 

Posts: 501
Joined: 6/3/2004
From: a maze of twisty little passages, all different
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tiornu

My oh Zmaj!
During her German period, so we'll call her Drache. That's a Flettner Fl-282 V6. Drache was used for trials in detecting subs and mines via choppers, but there wasn't a lot of success. A second chopper, an Fl-282 V10, was also allocated to the tests.
Note that the Germans also had another vessel named Drache, a training ship built c1908.


Well done! Actually, I thought Apollo11 would get it first. The full solution is:
German minelayer "Drache" ex Yugoslav AV/ML "Zmaj" on operational trials of Flettner 282 helicopters between November 1942 and February 1943 in the Adriatic.
Thre shipwas ordered in 1928 as "mobile seaplane base" but apparently almost never operated an aircraft, although it carried a dismantled D.H.60 floatplane in the hold. The Yugoslav navy seems to have been at a loss about how to operate the ship and finally converted it to a minelayer. After being impounded by the Wehrmacht in 1941, it was at first used as an aircraft salvage vessel by the Luftwaffe, then as a troop transport by the Kriegsmarine, and was finally converted to a minelayer. In that role and as an escort vessel it served until September 29, 1944, when it was sunk by Beaufighters in Vathi harbour on the Greek isle of Samos.

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RE: Recognize this? - 11/13/2004 7:42:20 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: mikemike

Well done! Actually, I thought Apollo11 would get it first. The full solution is:
German minelayer "Drache" ex Yugoslav AV/ML "Zmaj" on operational trials of Flettner 282 helicopters between November 1942 and February 1943 in the Adriatic.
Thre shipwas ordered in 1928 as "mobile seaplane base" but apparently almost never operated an aircraft, although it carried a dismantled D.H.60 floatplane in the hold. The Yugoslav navy seems to have been at a loss about how to operate the ship and finally converted it to a minelayer. After being impounded by the Wehrmacht in 1941, it was at first used as an aircraft salvage vessel by the Luftwaffe, then as a troop transport by the Kriegsmarine, and was finally converted to a minelayer. In that role and as an escort vessel it served until September 29, 1944, when it was sunk by Beaufighters in Vathi harbour on the Greek isle of Samos.


Very interesting - thanks for info!


Leo "Apollo11"


P.S. That "Tiornu's" note about chasing submarines with helicopters from that ship fooled me though...

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to mikemike)
Post #: 6
RE: Recognize this? - 11/14/2004 12:34:23 AM   
mikemike

 

Posts: 501
Joined: 6/3/2004
From: a maze of twisty little passages, all different
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

P.S. That "Tiornu's" note about chasing submarines with helicopters from that ship fooled me though...


Well - he was right about that; that was one of the roles the Fl 282 was trialled for, although I donīt know with what results. Further trials were conducted using a platform mounted on Turret "C" of CL "Köln", and the type was intended to operate from a planned class of escort vessels that never materialised, so apparently those helicopters were found useful. Series deliveries against a production order for 1.000 aircraft were prevented by bombing of the factory.
BTW, if you want more info about the "Zmaj/Drache", I recommend Dr. Zvonimir Freivogelīs book "Die Kriegsmarine in der Adria, 1941 - 45" (The Kriegsmarine in the Adriatic, 1941-45), provided you understand German. Itīs available from AMAZON.DE

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Post #: 7
RE: Recognize this? - 11/14/2004 6:29:47 AM   
Tiornu

 

Posts: 1126
Joined: 4/1/2004
Status: offline 		I was considering another of his books, a Croatian/English volume called Austro-Hungarian Battleships of World War One. Has anyone had a look at it? I would like to know what it covers. My interest lies with the technical details of the ships.

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Post #: 8
RE: Recognize this? - 11/14/2004 10:43:49 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tiornu

I was considering another of his books, a Croatian/English volume called Austro-Hungarian Battleships of World War One. Has anyone had a look at it? I would like to know what it covers. My interest lies with the technical details of the ships.


I read that booklet in store (it is not book - too small for that) - I was dissapointed and thus I didn't buy it.

Essentially it is about Viribus Unitis" and her 3 sisters.


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Tiornu)
Post #: 9
RE: Recognize this? - 11/14/2004 10:54:10 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: mikemike

BTW, if you want more info about the "Zmaj/Drache", I recommend Dr. Zvonimir Freivogelīs book "Die Kriegsmarine in der Adria, 1941 - 45" (The Kriegsmarine in the Adriatic, 1941-45), provided you understand German. Itīs available from AMAZON.DE


Interesting!

BTW, Zvonimir Freivogel is German publicist and amateur historian (he is dentist). He was born in 1955 in Zagreb. I suppose that he now lives in Germany (thus German publicist and amateur historian).

He also wrote booklet that "Tiornu" mentions - "Austro-Hungarian Battleships of WWI".


Leo "Apollo11"


P.S.
I just checked and there are 4 "Austro-Hungarian Battleships of WWI" booklets to get in library system (and all are available - not surprisingly because, like everywhere, people are not very interested in history which is 100% shame). The other book "Die Kriegsmarine in der Adria, 1941 - 45" is not published in Croatian.

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to mikemike)
Post #: 10
RE: Recognize this? - 11/14/2004 12:21:52 PM   
Tiornu

 

Posts: 1126
Joined: 4/1/2004
Status: offline 		That's disappointing. I did notice that it was short--96 pages. I was hoping it gave some details on the Radetzkys and older ships, which are not well covered.

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Post #: 11
RE: Recognize this? - 11/14/2004 2:52:22 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tiornu

That's disappointing. I did notice that it was short--96 pages. I was hoping it gave some details on the Radetzkys and older ships, which are not well covered.


Just to be 100% sure I will get this book from library and check this out next week.

BTW, 96 pages are for both languages - thus only 48 pages in this booklet.


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Tiornu)
Post #: 12
RE: Recognize this? - 11/14/2004 10:35:33 PM   
Tiornu

 

Posts: 1126
Joined: 4/1/2004
Status: offline 		"BTW, 96 pages are for both languages - thus only 48 pages in this booklet."
Ooh, good point. Thanks for checking it out for me.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 13
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