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Ferry, Extended and Normal Range

 
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Ferry, Extended and Normal Range - 8/17/2004 12:39:32 AM   
Pascal_slith


Posts: 1651
Joined: 8/20/2003
From: back in Commiefornia
Status: offline 		The editor manual says the maximum speed and the cruising speed of aircraft should be entered in knots. However, from my reading of the database and comparison with the data I have in a number of sources, the speed look like miles per hour, and not nautical miles per hour.

Next, please tell me if this is correct: the Ferry range in hexes is calculated using the formula cruising speed X endurance (in minutes) divided by 3600.

Then, how are Extended and Normal radius calculated?

_____________________________

So much WitP and so little time to play.... :-(

Post #: 1
RE: Ferry, Extended and Normal Range - 8/17/2004 12:56:09 AM   
tanjman


Posts: 717
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: Griffin, GA
Status: offline 		Pascal,

The formula for Aircraft ranges is in the WitP Manual scetion 7.2.2.7

Basicly its:
normal = 1/4 max range
extended = 1/3 max range
transport = 1/2 max range
ferry = max range

_____________________________

Gunner's Mate: A Boatswain's Mate with a hunting license.

(in reply to Pascal_slith)
Post #: 2
RE: Ferry, Extended and Normal Range - 8/17/2004 1:40:51 AM   
Pascal_slith


Posts: 1651
Joined: 8/20/2003
From: back in Commiefornia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tanjman

Pascal,

The formula for Aircraft ranges is in the WitP Manual scetion 7.2.2.7

Basicly its:
normal = 1/4 max range
extended = 1/3 max range
transport = 1/2 max range
ferry = max range


Thanks.

Now what about the knots vs. mph issue in the database?

_____________________________

So much WitP and so little time to play.... :-(


(in reply to tanjman)
Post #: 3
RE: Ferry, Extended and Normal Range - 8/17/2004 3:16:40 AM   
Bodhi


Posts: 1267
Joined: 8/26/2003
From: Japan
Status: offline 		Hi Pascal,

quote:

The editor manual says the maximum speed and the cruising speed of aircraft should be entered in knots. However, from my reading of the database and comparison with the data I have in a number of sources, the speed look like miles per hour, and not nautical miles per hour.


Why don't you try taking the longest range aircraft you can find (speed x endurance), calculate the ferry range a) using the data as in the database, and b) applying a knots to mph correction and then comparing these two results to what is given in the game?

quote:


Next, please tell me if this is correct: the Ferry range in hexes is calculated using the formula cruising speed X endurance (in minutes) divided by 3600.


What it says in the editor manual is "Endurance This is the number of minutes the plane can fly before running out of fuel. The max range of the aircraft in miles is calculated by taking the endurance times the cruising speed and dividing this by 3600".

Now I don't think this can be correct.

distance in miles(or nautical miles) = cruise speed (mph or knots) x endurance/60 (endurance in hours not mins)
distance in hexes = cruise speed (mph or knots)/60 (speed on hex/hr basis not mph/knot) x endurance/60 (endurance in hours not mins)

So I think the manual should read distance in hexes, not miles.

_____________________________

Bodhi

(in reply to Pascal_slith)
Post #: 4
RE: Ferry, Extended and Normal Range - 8/17/2004 5:38:36 AM   
Herrbear


Posts: 883
Joined: 7/26/2004
From: Glendora, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pascal

The editor manual says the maximum speed and the cruising speed of aircraft should be entered in knots. However, from my reading of the database and comparison with the data I have in a number of sources, the speed look like miles per hour, and not nautical miles per hour.

Next, please tell me if this is correct: the Ferry range in hexes is calculated using the formula cruising speed X endurance (in minutes) divided by 3600.

Then, how are Extended and Normal radius calculated?


I asked the same question on the 3rd and still do not have an answer.

"The Editor Manual indicates that the Max Speed and Cruising Speed is based on knots. In checking out some planes, it appears that the speed used is in miles per hour.

Is the speed ratings supposed to be in knots or is this a typo?

Thank you."

In comparing my sources to WITP figures for the aircraft I would say everything is in st. miles and not nautical miles.

(in reply to Pascal_slith)
Post #: 5
RE: Ferry, Extended and Normal Range - 8/17/2004 9:11:53 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Herrbear

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pascal

The editor manual says the maximum speed and the cruising speed of aircraft should be entered in knots. However, from my reading of the database and comparison with the data I have in a number of sources, the speed look like miles per hour, and not nautical miles per hour.

Next, please tell me if this is correct: the Ferry range in hexes is calculated using the formula cruising speed X endurance (in minutes) divided by 3600.

Then, how are Extended and Normal radius calculated?


I asked the same question on the 3rd and still do not have an answer.

"The Editor Manual indicates that the Max Speed and Cruising Speed is based on knots. In checking out some planes, it appears that the speed used is in miles per hour.

Is the speed ratings supposed to be in knots or is this a typo?

Thank you."

In comparing my sources to WITP figures for the aircraft I would say everything is in st. miles and not nautical miles.


Sounds like a typo to me. I'd go with whichever seems to match the data for the aircraft in the game.

(in reply to Herrbear)
Post #: 6
RE: Ferry, Extended and Normal Range - 8/18/2004 11:50:02 AM   
Pascal_slith


Posts: 1651
Joined: 8/20/2003
From: back in Commiefornia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

quote:

ORIGINAL: Herrbear

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pascal

The editor manual says the maximum speed and the cruising speed of aircraft should be entered in knots. However, from my reading of the database and comparison with the data I have in a number of sources, the speed look like miles per hour, and not nautical miles per hour.

Next, please tell me if this is correct: the Ferry range in hexes is calculated using the formula cruising speed X endurance (in minutes) divided by 3600.

Then, how are Extended and Normal radius calculated?


I asked the same question on the 3rd and still do not have an answer.

"The Editor Manual indicates that the Max Speed and Cruising Speed is based on knots. In checking out some planes, it appears that the speed used is in miles per hour.

Is the speed ratings supposed to be in knots or is this a typo?

Thank you."

In comparing my sources to WITP figures for the aircraft I would say everything is in st. miles and not nautical miles.


Sounds like a typo to me. I'd go with whichever seems to match the data for the aircraft in the game.


The definite solution is the answer to the question: are the hexes 60 statute mile or nautical miles across? If statute, the speeds should be mph, if nautical, the speeds should be in knots (and in the latter case there would be a lot of mistakes).

_____________________________

So much WitP and so little time to play.... :-(


(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 7
RE: Ferry, Extended and Normal Range - 11/11/2004 6:35:41 PM   
LTCMTS

 

Posts: 300
Joined: 1/6/2003
From: Newnan, GA
Status: offline 		I am working on some database changes in the editor, also and find this an interesting question, as it impacts other areas of the game. The manual states that the hexes are 60 miles across. It does not state whether these are statute or nautical miles. As an aside, the difference would be 60 st.mi = 57.8nm and 60nm = 62.3 st.mi. To extrapolate, if ship speeds and ranges are in knots, unless there is a mechanism in the game program to do conversions, it would seem right that the hexes are in nm. This would imply a/c speeds and ranges are in nm, despite the database showing data more in line with st.mi., ie. max speed of A5M4 is 270mph or 235kts, but the database lists 270 as the max speed. There are a number of interesting numbers in the database. I was surprised to see 150mm armor on Japanese CA turrets. This is interesting because the most recent and thorough research on Japanese cruisers shows turret armor of 25mm NVC plate. If it is supposed to represent the total turret structure (ie. turret, barbette and structure behind the belt or SPS), this is still wrong as no combination of magazine, barbette or turret protection adds up to 150mm.

(in reply to Pascal_slith)
Post #: 8
RE: Ferry, Extended and Normal Range - 11/11/2004 6:52:16 PM   
LTCMTS

 

Posts: 300
Joined: 1/6/2003
From: Newnan, GA
Status: offline 		There's something wrong with the endurance formula anyway. The number in the data field for the A5M4 is 200. Now Francillion gives the A5M4 a ferry range of 648nm w/o the 160l ventral drop tank. With external fuel, range was probably 800nm. 800/150 (the cruising speed in knots) = 5.33 hrs or 320 min. 320 x 150 = 48,000/3600= an endurance figure of 13.33?!?. Let's take a wild stab into the dark. 13.33 x 60nm = 799.8nm. So 13 would be ferry range in number of hexes?!.

(in reply to LTCMTS)
Post #: 9
RE: Ferry, Extended and Normal Range - 11/13/2004 5:52:32 PM   
LTCMTS

 

Posts: 300
Joined: 1/6/2003
From: Newnan, GA
Status: offline 		Any answers anyone? Is the endurance figure in the database minutes, st.mis or nm.s? Is the endurance formula corerect? I believe it produces range in hexes, but that doesn't correlate with the numbers in the database.

(in reply to Pascal_slith)
Post #: 10
RE: Ferry, Extended and Normal Range - 11/13/2004 7:05:11 PM   
LTCMTS

 

Posts: 300
Joined: 1/6/2003
From: Newnan, GA
Status: offline 		Also for anyone interested, the Ki-30 and Ki-32 were not dive bombers, they were single engine level bombers, in the same class as the British Battle.

(in reply to LTCMTS)
Post #: 11
RE: Ferry, Extended and Normal Range - 11/13/2004 7:13:14 PM   
LTCMTS

 

Posts: 300
Joined: 1/6/2003
From: Newnan, GA
Status: offline 		I think I caught on to the manual. The figure in the database is the number of minutes the a/c can fly at the cruising speed indicated in that field. The game engine converts this to hexes through the formula: endurance (in minutes) x cruising speed divided by 3600 = number of hexes. Take the Ki-30. Cruise speed is 227kts (I'm converting everything to nm to be in line with the ships and subs). Maximum range is 1,017nm. This means 1,017 divided by 227 = 4.48hrs or 269 min. The database shows 270 in the endurance field. Now 270 x 227 = 61,290 divided by 3600 = (voila!) 17 hexes at 60nm per hex.

(in reply to Pascal_slith)
Post #: 12
RE: Ferry, Extended and Normal Range - 11/18/2004 3:14:09 AM   
LTCMTS

 

Posts: 300
Joined: 1/6/2003
From: Newnan, GA
Status: offline 		Another interesting discovery. The build rate is limited to 254. Any greater number has 254 subtracted from it, ie. put in 300 and you get 46.

(in reply to LTCMTS)
Post #: 13
RE: Ferry, Extended and Normal Range - 11/18/2004 2:37:31 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: LTCMTS

Another interesting discovery. The build rate is limited to 254. Any greater number has 254 subtracted from it, ie. put in 300 and you get 46.


This is because they (programmers) almsot certainly used single byte value (i.e. numbers can only range from 0 to 254).


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to LTCMTS)
Post #: 14
RE: Ferry, Extended and Normal Range - 11/19/2004 11:52:48 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		The AIR build rate is a single character (value range 0-255), while the AIR pool is two characters (value 0-65535).
The DEVICE build rate is however two characters (value 0-32767).

Hey, what can I say. Thats programming ....
Michael

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 15
RE: Ferry, Extended and Normal Range - 11/20/2004 2:27:09 AM   
LTCMTS

 

Posts: 300
Joined: 1/6/2003
From: Newnan, GA
Status: offline 		Well it does at least prevent you from putting in the ACTUAL US a/c production figures, like 504 P-47D or 691 B-24H a month and gives the Japanese player in a "Plan Orange" scenario some chance of lasting out 1944.

< Message edited by LTCMTS -- 11/19/2004 7:27:11 PM >

(in reply to LTCMTS)
Post #: 16
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