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authentic core force compositions? - 6/15/2000 3:40:00 AM   
sjuncal

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 5/21/2000
From: VA
Status: offline
My campaigning is on hold awaiting the patch but I'm thinking of starting a new generated campaign when it comes out, using a more authentic core force, to give the AIP some advantage. In other words, transports for infanty, Armor ratio to infantry, recon elements, forward Observers, Snipers per company, support units (jeeps, a command car for the HQ), supply units, perhaps a some what historical ratio of weaker AT guns to stronger guns and their movers etc.... What would be a relatively accurate US command (battalion sized?) at or around 1600 to 2000 or even 3000 points? Keeping in mind that I'd like (however unauthentic) to have at least some special forces element (Ranger, Brit commandos etc.) under my command. 'Cause they're fun, and I refuse to compromise a certain (rationalize-able I.e. "we linked up and they are under my command until further orders") quotient of fun for mere "realism". Also could someone explain to this non-grognard the rough hyrarchy of a US army? 4 Squads -> platoon -> 3 or 4 platoons -> Company -> (?) companies -> Battalion -> (?) Battalions -> Division? -> Army? -> Corps? I realize this is in depth stuff so I apprectiate any replies ------------------ -- Simon Moderator Capitals@his.com Aka Alhazred http://capitals.washington.dc.us/ http://members.tripod.com/~sjuncal/shooter/

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- 6/15/2000 4:09:00 AM   
Drake666

 

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Joined: 4/22/2000
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This info may be of help to you. The American Sub-Division Of Army Units In WWII: squad--around a dozen men platoon--3 or 4 squads company--3 or 4 platoons battalion--3 or 4 companies regiment--3 or 4 battalions division--3 or 4 regiments corps army army group US Infantry Regiment In 1944: 6 105mm Howitzers, 9 57mm anti-tank guns, 55 .50 caliber machine guns, many .30 caliber machine guns and enough Jeeps & ammunition to opperate US Infantry Company In 1944: 193 men, 15 BARs, 2 M1919A4s, 1 .50 caliber machine gun and 6 submachine guns US Infantry Platoon In 1944: 41 men, 1 M2 carbine, 3 BARs US Airborne Infantry Company: 176 men, 9 machine guns, 9 BARs, 3 60mm mortars and 3 bazookas US Airborne Infantry Platoon: 36 men, 2 M1919A6s, 22 rifles, 14 M2 carbines, 1 60mm mortar, 1 sniper rifle and 1 bazooka

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- 6/17/2000 8:01:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
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Armored Battalion or Infantry Battalion, Sjuncal?...WB A typical battalion type fight might possibly include... 3 Rifle Companies (with transport for one) 1 Weapons Company (1 81mm Mortar battery, 50 Cal MG section) 1 motorized recon section 1 tank company 1 platoon of engineers 2 AT Gun sections 1 SPA platoon 1 off map battery support (105 or 155) Of course, it depends on whether you are attacking or defending. This one is based on a battalion advance. For defense I would have more MGs and more AT guns, maybe a few bunkers and rifle pits. Now before you guys tear into me , this is very general, but should give you some ideas. Specialized units were usually attached to the larger units in one way or another. Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

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Post #: 3
- 6/18/2000 2:26:00 AM   
robot


Posts: 1438
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Covington Ky USA
Status: offline
Like the information on USA but i for some reason like the german side in long campaign, whioch like you is on hold right now till patch. Primarily because of too many crews who wont get back into vehicles after fix all. I like to set up like this for attk. Special ops force, sec of rad 8s, some time use sec light recon tanks in place of special ops. Next is main tanks 2 groups of five of IIIe. After first battle upgrade to 2 cs tanks in each group of five.Next are 2 squads of panzer grenadiers mech. Will change 2of each squad to engineers after first battle. Then comes 2-88s 2-150 infantry guns and 2-37mm AT guns then 2 to 4 AAs. With my bous points buy planes or off board artty or some time airborne for a drop all acccording what im goining to do. ------------------ Robots wear armor for skin.Grunts wear skin for armor.

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Robots wear armor for skin.Grunts wear skin for armor.

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Post #: 4
- 6/18/2000 6:43:00 AM   
victorhauser

 

Posts: 318
Joined: 5/29/2000
From: austin, texas
Status: offline
It's almost a matter of personal choice when it comes to German "authentic" core selection for a campaign. The Germans more than other nations created "ad hoc" kampfgruppen tailored especially for the operation at hand. Even within divisions, the Germans "mixed and matched" units for the task to be performed. Their training and tactical doctrine allowed for this greater degree of flexibility than did other nations (although all nations did it, with varying levels of success). However, even the Germans had some "standard" (if the word can be applied here) kampfgruppen within their panzer divisions. Typically, one KG would be formed around the Recon Battalion, and one around each Panzergrenadier Regiment. Sometimes a KG would be formed around the Panzer Regiment, too (although more usual to see the panzer battalions operating with Panzergrenadier KGs, the main exception being during large-scale assaults like Kursk). In any event, these KGs would draw upon other divisional assets like engineer, antitank, and artillery, as well as the occasional GHQ units (like heavy tanks and antiaircraft). But basically, German players, to a degree not easily matched by other nations, can choose just about any core force they can imagine from battle to battle and still not stray very far from being "authentic". "Purists" might argue that having 33 Elephants as part of your core is "unbelieveable" or "unrealistic". But I like to think that MY core force happens to be the most important force in the Theater (why would I be playing the campaign with secondary troops?). And "somebody" had all those Elephants at Kursk, why not me? So I have no problem with having as much of my favorite combat material as I can get my hands on. (I compensate the AI in lots of other ways to handicap myself though, because I don't like pushover campaigns. See my post from several weeks ago "Where Are You Coming From?" for details.) I don't play the Germans in campaigns much these days since I generally think it's too easy to win with them. But when I do play the Germans, I imagine myself as the main KG commander for Grossdeutchland (even in Africa or France! ). That gives me the mental freedom to compose my core force in just about any way I can think of. Happy Gaming, Victor

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VAH

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Post #: 5
- 6/18/2000 12:14:00 PM   
sjuncal

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 5/21/2000
From: VA
Status: offline
Thanks you all, lots of interesting information. So my next question is what about German names for Squad, platoon, Company, battalion, regiment and so on. I gather a Kampfgrupp is roughly comparable to a US Battalion sized command (guessing because of the scale of SP:WAW)? I can't imagine managing a core force much larger than a US battalion. I'm currently messing with the People's General to Panzer General 2 mod ("People's General WWII")-- waiting for the patch to resume my SP:WAW campaigning -- playing the German Campaign and I'm trying to come up with names that have the right "flavor" for Panzer General 2's ambiguous scale... If it was US I might for instance name airborn "1st company 3rd Battalion" (and so with 3 or 4 companies have "1st CO/3rd BTN. 2nd CO/3rd BTN etc). What would be the German army analog to that? Does it differ for Armor? Simon (waiting patiently for the patch, wondering what the hell to name a Gerry Recon "company" Tank "company" etc.) [This message has been edited by sjuncal (edited 06-18-2000).]

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Post #: 6
- 6/18/2000 12:30:00 PM   
victorhauser

 

Posts: 318
Joined: 5/29/2000
From: austin, texas
Status: offline
Actually, "kampfgruppe" simply means "battle group" and they could be (and were) all different sizes from very small to very large (100 men to 10,000+ men). As I recall, zug = platoon, companie = company, abteilung = battalion (although the word abteilung is more general and doesn't mean "battalion" exactly, it usually corresponds to a formation the size of what we would call a battalion).

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VAH

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Post #: 7
- 6/20/2000 7:04:00 PM   
robot


Posts: 1438
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Covington Ky USA
Status: offline
Tried the long again yesterday was in defend mode here was my setup. My core units as follows. Mech. spec ops force Sec. Rad 8s 2 Mech.SS elite inf. 2 Engineers With Trucks 2 Platoons of med.III 2 Platoons IV 3 motorcycles 2 snipers 4 10/4 aa My bonus was used up with bunkers and mines with 2 150 inf guns and 2 37mm anti tanks. Was close fight never seen so many inf and tanks after me. They would not give up kept comin at me. One plattoon of ss elite who were holding my right flank, put up an amazing fight before retreating. Would have loved to be anble to decorate those guys.

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Robots wear armor for skin.Grunts wear skin for armor.

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Post #: 8
- 6/20/2000 7:59:00 PM   
victorhauser

 

Posts: 318
Joined: 5/29/2000
From: austin, texas
Status: offline
Hey, Robot. Why don't we play a PBEM game. You can be the SS and I'll be the Russians. OK?

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VAH

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Post #: 9
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