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SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion]

 
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SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/17/2004 1:31:40 AM   
RBWhite


Posts: 1484
Joined: 8/28/2004
From: Somerdale, New Jersey, USA
Status: offline 		I would like to thank everyone who responded and provided whatever help, information, technical know how and good conversation. I believe I have solved the problem.

I called this machine of mine everything I could think, smacked it, kicked it, punched it, ripped it apart and threatened to shot it.

If your using a high end machine with WinXp and an Intel Pentium 4 processor with Hyper Threading and your having problems with some or all of Matrix Games you will have to go into your CMOS and disable the Hyper Threading portion of your processor if you can, or if you choose too.

Matrix will needs to know that a game patch is required to correct the problem with high end machines running Pentium 4 Processor with Hyper Threading, Also a patch of sorts to reduce the amount of resourses that SPWAW is using, way to much.

I'l let everyone know if anything else developes

Thanks to all

Rick White

Now that I have disabled the hyper threading portion of the processor SPWAW 8.30 is eating up system resourses. Fluctuating between 85 and 100 %.

I'm running from the mech.exe, If I run from autoplay my resourse meter goes off the scale.

< Message edited by RBWhite -- 11/17/2004 12:45:50 AM >

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RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/17/2004 5:04:44 AM   
Hexed Gamer


Posts: 561
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks for your dedicated efforts RBWhite :)

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RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/17/2004 7:48:34 AM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RBWhite
If your using a high end machine with WinXp and an Intel Pentium 4 processor with Hyper Threading and your having problems with some or all of Matrix Games you will have to go into your CMOS and disable the Hyper Threading portion of your processor if you can, or if you choose too.

Matrix will needs to know that a game patch is required to correct the problem with high end machines running Pentium 4 Processor with Hyper Threading


This can't be true. I know wargamers aren't generally known for having the latest and greatest pc's but come on.. I'm already on my Second P4. They have been out a long time now and though I dont play SPWAW all that often (well not at all anymore actually) I have run it on both this P4 and the last and hyper-threading IS enabled in my bios. One machine has an NVIDIA and one (this one) has an ATI.

While I don't doubt your fix "fixed it" in your case I can't help but wonder if the real problem was still something else, and thus the "real fix".

After all if it was strickly a problem with SPWAW and P4 hyperthreading, then how could it work for ANYONE else who had that?

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RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/17/2004 8:06:32 AM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Veldor
While I don't doubt your fix "fixed it" in your case I can't help but wonder if the real problem was still something else, and thus the "real fix".


BTW I looked it up quickly with Microsoft and it seems some motherboards (or really its some chipsets) have a flaw with hyperthreading alone or with hyperthreading and AGP 3.0 cards when used. One such chipset is the Intel Granitebay E7205 chipset.

If you tell me what motherboard/chipset you have I could probably confirm.

One thing many people don't realize is that there are drivers for your motherboard. I buy all INTEL motherboards and always download the latest inf drivers and other motherboard related updates from intel. Many components in your system also have firmware updates which solve issues like this as well.

Im guessing this to be true as it would answer to me why disabling isn't necessary on my machine but is on yours.

Of course if SPWAW is the only game that locks up with hyperthreading enabled it doesn't necessarily mean the code couldn't be tweaked a little more. But if you are the only one having the problem then why bother?

Most problems I could think of should affect ALL users, such as this one:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;327809

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RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/17/2004 12:34:41 PM   
RBWhite


Posts: 1484
Joined: 8/28/2004
From: Somerdale, New Jersey, USA
Status: offline 		Your opinion is noted



Thank You

Rick White

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RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/17/2004 12:35:30 PM   
RBWhite


Posts: 1484
Joined: 8/28/2004
From: Somerdale, New Jersey, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks Hexed Gamer



Rick White

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Post #: 6
RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/17/2004 7:33:35 PM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RBWhite
Your opinion is noted


You imply as if you disagree yet offer no argument or alternative explanation of the cause and effect?

I offered to try to help further resolve the issue but you aren't interested in that.

You just seem hell bent on blaming Matrix and their Sh$tty programming for all of your problems.

If that's all you came here to do then why are you here?

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Post #: 7
RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/17/2004 9:27:47 PM   
RBWhite


Posts: 1484
Joined: 8/28/2004
From: Somerdale, New Jersey, USA
Status: offline 		I asked for discussion on the 14th.

It is now the 17th, you could have chimmed in.

So why are you here now?

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Post #: 8
RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/17/2004 10:00:40 PM   
Kevinugly

 

Posts: 438
Joined: 4/2/2003
From: Colchester, UK
Status: offline 		Now now, let's be gentlemanly here

I have to say that I find the 'HyperThreading theory' unusual simply because so many systems have the processers in them and afaik no-one else has reported the problem. This is not to say that RBWhite is wrong - he evidently knows far more about a computer's inner workings than I do, or ever will - but I do wonder whether there is something else causing the system to overwork itself.

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Post #: 9
RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/17/2004 10:06:59 PM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RBWhite

I asked for discussion on the 14th.

It is now the 17th, you could have chimmed in.

So why are you here now?


I wasn't aware it was a requirement that all forum members visit on a daily basis. You started this thread on the 16th. I replied on the 16th. I was trying to be helpful. 1+1 does not equal 2 here.

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RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/17/2004 10:14:21 PM   
RBWhite


Posts: 1484
Joined: 8/28/2004
From: Somerdale, New Jersey, USA
Status: offline 		No

The original General Discussion thread I started was on the 14th.


ASUS Motherboard: P4C800 Deluxe

Chipset: Intel 875P MCH

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Post #: 11
RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/17/2004 10:16:51 PM   
RBWhite


Posts: 1484
Joined: 8/28/2004
From: Somerdale, New Jersey, USA
Status: offline 		Kevinugly

It's okay.

Thanks for the support

Rick White

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Post #: 12
RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/17/2004 10:36:19 PM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RBWhite
ASUS Motherboard: P4C800 Deluxe

Chipset: Intel 875P MCH


Then you should get the INF updates from the following so your chipset interacts with your AGP slot properly. This is an important extra step whenever dealing with the latest chipsets and graphic cards.

http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df/filter_results.asp?strOSs=44&strTypes=DRV%2CARC%2CSCD%2CUTL&ProductID=1043&OSFullName=Windows*+XP+Professional&submit=Go%21

You should also update your BIOS if you haven't already

http://www.asus.com/support/download/item.aspx?ModelName=P4C800-E%20Deluxe

You might also check-out the HyperThreading Testing Utility at:

http://support.intel.com/support/processors/tools/htu/

Usually when dealing with the latest chipsets motherboard manufacturers have to design the boards based on less than complete versions and details of the chips themselves so often bios and inf updates are required for everything to sync. The INF updates alone can work wonders. They are essentially the drivers for your motherboard and tell it how to handle things like interaction with the AGP slots and hyper-threading.

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RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/17/2004 11:04:27 PM   
RBWhite


Posts: 1484
Joined: 8/28/2004
From: Somerdale, New Jersey, USA
Status: offline 		I'll give these a shot.

Bios is flashed already to Version 1019.

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Post #: 14
RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/17/2004 11:56:22 PM   
RBWhite


Posts: 1484
Joined: 8/28/2004
From: Somerdale, New Jersey, USA
Status: offline 		Downladed INF updates & installed them.

Downloaded the Hyper Threading test utility.

Rebooted, entered cmos enabled hyper threading.

Finished reboot, Installed HT test utility, ran it, all was fine.

Ran SPWAW 8.30 no changes with screen still blacks out.

System resourses meter spiked

(in reply to Veldor)
Post #: 15
RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/18/2004 1:46:23 AM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RBWhite



If your using a high end machine with WinXp and an Intel Pentium 4 processor with Hyper Threading and your having problems with some or all of Matrix Games you will have to go into your CMOS and disable the Hyper Threading portion of your processor if you can, or if you choose too.




Again youve mentioned Matrix GAMES not just SPWAW. The games on here are all developed by different companies so how can they all suffer or even some of them suffer from the sam problem?

IF they do then surely all games by anyone will suffer aswell.

Listen Matrix can not be blamed for ANY problems with any of the games except ones they have developed themselves.

To me because you have made out it is a lot of games here when infact it cant be so says you have something against Matrix. Your blaming them for things they have no control over.

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Post #: 16
RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/18/2004 2:19:35 AM   
RBWhite


Posts: 1484
Joined: 8/28/2004
From: Somerdale, New Jersey, USA
Status: offline 		wodin

I have nothing against Matrix Games the company. I respect them for keeping the war gaming and scifi genres going. But in some respects there are areas they need to improve.

You have developers and you have publishers.

Tell me who mastered the disks?


Rick White

< Message edited by RBWhite -- 11/18/2004 12:38:41 AM >

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Post #: 17
RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/18/2004 2:58:24 AM   
Bodhi


Posts: 1267
Joined: 8/26/2003
From: Japan
Status: offline 		One thing that I think is developed by Matrix is the autorun.exe program that brings up a window with options to start the game, start TrueUpdate, read the manual, visit the Matrix site, etc. I think in most (all?) games this is set as the main shortcut in the game folder in the star menu and possibly on the desktop. However, this can be bypassed for most (all?) games, and you can just run the game exe. If it's the autorun.exe that's causing the problem, the workaround is simple, don't use it.

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Post #: 18
RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/18/2004 3:07:29 AM   
RBWhite


Posts: 1484
Joined: 8/28/2004
From: Somerdale, New Jersey, USA
Status: offline 		Bodhi

I've run SPWAW from the mech.exe and the spwaw.exe with the same results. The screen blacks out.

The autorun program that Matrix uses is a product of a company called Indigorose.



Thanks

Rick White

< Message edited by RBWhite -- 11/18/2004 1:21:32 AM >

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RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/18/2004 3:11:17 AM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Yes but its the person who makes the game who is responsible for it sproblems and compatibility issues. Not Matrix.

As for SPWAW. Well this game is free for a start. Also its not all their ow work. Its an old engine that they took on and improved for free.

You keep saying that there are other games which have compaitibility problems from MAtrix. Well I will say this ALL games have compatibilty problems.

Remember Matrix isnt like Paradox who develop their own games. Matrix on the whole just publishes them.

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Post #: 20
RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/18/2004 3:19:58 AM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RBWhite

Downladed INF updates & installed them.

Downloaded the Hyper Threading test utility.

Rebooted, entered cmos enabled hyper threading.

Finished reboot, Installed HT test utility, ran it, all was fine.

Ran SPWAW 8.30 no changes with screen still blacks out.

System resourses meter spiked


Well my main machine here has an Intel 875P chipset with hyperthreading enabled and a ATI RADEON 9800 in the AGP 8x slot. Except I am using an Intel Motherboard as well. A D875PBZ to be exact.

And I do not have that issue nor issues with any games Matrix or otherwise.

So that would lead me to believe its still somehow a motherboard related issue with how ASUS has done something. Or else still something on the software/config level that is different.

Have you tried running it under SAFE MODE? Maybe do a parrallel install of XP, bare bones, to c:\WINTEMP or something.

Out of ideas beyond that, but likely Matrix isn't to blame for your issues...

As a side note I've bought nothing but Intel chips and boards for years and honestly while this or that may not be quite as fast I've never had many of the issues that AMD people and so forth seem to get. Intel Motherboards are rock solid just like their chips and its worth the extra $$$ in my opinion. I even stuck with them during the RAMBUS phase and never had trouble with those either.

That said If I ever did buy a non-intel motherboard it would be an ASUS.

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RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/18/2004 3:23:26 AM   
Bodhi


Posts: 1267
Joined: 8/26/2003
From: Japan
Status: offline 		Probably not important, but I think the autorun.exe may be made by Matrix using the AutoPlay Media Studio software of Indigo Rose.

OK, fine you're having a problem with SPWAW, but to go from there to "problems with some or all of Matrix Games", as you stated in your original post, is probably more a function of your frustration than fact.

BTW, are you saying that the screen "blacks out" only when with hyperthreading is activated?

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Post #: 22
RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/18/2004 3:27:21 AM   
RBWhite


Posts: 1484
Joined: 8/28/2004
From: Somerdale, New Jersey, USA
Status: offline 		Bodhi

Yes to the Autoplay media.

Yes to the Hyper Threading question.

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Post #: 23
RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/18/2004 3:34:01 AM   
RBWhite


Posts: 1484
Joined: 8/28/2004
From: Somerdale, New Jersey, USA
Status: offline 		Veldor


Thanks for the info and help.



Rick White

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Post #: 24
RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/18/2004 3:34:56 AM   
Bodhi


Posts: 1267
Joined: 8/26/2003
From: Japan
Status: offline 		Well Veldor above seems to be able to run with hyperthreading enabled, although he doesn't specifically mention running SPWAW. I'd tend to agree with Veldor; it seems it may be system specific rather than a problem with "some or all of Matrix Games", especially as you seem to be the only one experiencing this problem. Of course this won't help to reduce your level of frustration at all.

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Post #: 25
RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/18/2004 3:46:09 AM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bodhi

Well Veldor above seems to be able to run with hyperthreading enabled, although he doesn't specifically mention running SPWAW. I'd tend to agree with Veldor; it seems it may be system specific rather than a problem with "some or all of Matrix Games", especially as you seem to be the only one experiencing this problem. Of course this won't help to reduce your level of frustration at all.


I had run SPWAW on this computer before but looking at it am unsure of what version since its not installed at the moment so since I happen to have the same chipset but different motherboard I am downloading SPWAW v8.2 and will see. SLOW download site though.

SPWAW I am 100% sure is a single-threaded app so it couldn't benefit directly from hyperthreading. The only other thing that could run on the other "virtual" processor would be other system functions programs and elements and thats not the job of Matrix or the developers but rather the responsibility of the drivers, OS, and hardware itself. Likely there is some sort of unproper queuing or contention with AGP access to the video card.

Should be easy to verify if 8.2 works for me. If it doesn't well.. We will see..

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Post #: 26
RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/18/2004 3:59:51 AM   
RBWhite


Posts: 1484
Joined: 8/28/2004
From: Somerdale, New Jersey, USA
Status: offline 		Bodhi

You might want to read back through some of the threads in the tech support by gamers for gamers forum. Just a thought.

I did mention SPWAW quite specifically.

Thanks

Rick White

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Post #: 27
RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/18/2004 5:46:49 AM   
Bodhi


Posts: 1267
Joined: 8/26/2003
From: Japan
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RBWhite

Bodhi

You might want to read back through some of the threads in the tech support by gamers for gamers forum. Just a thought.

I did mention SPWAW quite specifically.

Thanks

Rick White


I know you mentioned SPWAW, it's in the thread title after all, I was refering to Veldor stating he was running Matrix Games without problem.

I have nothing better to do so I went and looked in the "tech support by gamers for gamers forum", and found a couple of threads on SPWAW. From what I could see there's only about 4 people that posted, yourself, Black Cat, Voriax and Seraphim2150 that are having problems.

You yourself suggested Seraphim2150's problem may be a Sound card one. Black Cat is running an Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.80GHz according to his DX Diag report, will hyperthreading be an issue with this?

Maybe a few more people who are having a problem can try to turn off hyperthreading to see if it really is the cause of the problem.

Last official word I saw from Matrix was that they were looking at the problem, but it seems to be system specific ("We´re working on this. The problem is it´s not reproducable, some have the problem some not, with identical hardware and drivers. The vast majority has absolutly no problems running it under XP (without any tweaks or mech.exe direct start)" - Marc S).

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Post #: 28
RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/18/2004 7:03:20 AM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bodhi
Maybe a few more people who are having a problem can try to turn off hyperthreading to see if it really is the cause of the problem.


If more people had the same issue and turning off hyperthreading solved it it still wouldn't mean it was a problem with the game itself. It would just mean something isn't right with the hardware, drivers, firmware, etc. for more than one person.

Besides, after timing out a couple times on the download, I finally downloaded the latest SPWAW and It loads just fine for me. Started a game up no issues. I have the same core chipset and processor, just a different motherboard. And hyperthreading is enabled.

So that ends that...

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RE: SPWAW 8.0 - 8.30 & Me [General Discussion] - 11/18/2004 7:39:53 AM   
Bodhi


Posts: 1267
Joined: 8/26/2003
From: Japan
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Veldor

If more people had the same issue and turning off hyperthreading solved it it still wouldn't mean it was a problem with the game itself. It would just mean something isn't right with the hardware, drivers, firmware, etc. for more than one person.


Granted, but why would the problem manifest itself only with SPWAW?

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