War Plan Orange: December Update Part I (NEW SCREENS 12/3/04!)

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War Plan Orange: December Update Part I (NEW SCREENS 12... - 12/2/2004 8:21:33 AM

Tankerace

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Ok guys, here are some new screens. I am pushing hard to get this out this month, but it will be No Later than January. I have made immense strides in the mod, and already it is in a playable (although unfinished) state.

Without further adeau, more screens!

The List of British Destroyer classes. For the most part, British DDs are built to 2 specefic desgns, with differnces apparent by builder. The Ms,Rs, and Ss share a common design, while the Later Ms, Modified Rs, Vs, and Ws share a common design. The main thing that differentiates the classes are the Funnels (flat funnels denote a Thornycroft Design) and the Stern (Sloped sterns designate Yarrow designs). The class that has Thornycroft sterns and Yarrow funnels are Admiralty designs.

H.M. Destroyer Sybille, a Later Yarrow M class. The funnels are the same as an Admiralty design, but note the stern.

H.M. Destroyer Ready, a Thornycroft M. Note the funnels and stern to distinguish.

HMAS Paramatta, an Australian I class DD. They are the weakest DDs in the game. Note funnels, signifying an Admiralty design.

On a historical note, HMAS Paramatta was the first steel warship to ever be built in Australia.

H. M. Flottilla Leader Bruce. These are the same class as the Scott class destroyers in regular WitP.

HMAS Adelaide. The newest cruiser possessed by Australia. (Same ship as in reg. WitP)

HMAS Brisbane. Half sister to Adelaide. Can be distinguished by Pole rather than Tripod foremast.

HMCS Aurora. The only Canadian cruiser in the game. Originally I was going to leave it out, but I figured the Canadians need something. The Canadians also get 2 Destroyers.

USS Albany. One of two cruisers built for Brazil, but purchased by the US on outbreak of the Spanish American War. They are best suited to be used as gunboats.

HMS Furious, the largest Aircraft carrier available in WPO. Was originally a half sister to Courageous and Glorious.

HMS Courageous, the lead ship of the "Outrageous" class. Carries 4 15" guns. Was designed for use in shore bombardment. Is classified as a CL, so that players will not employ her as a BC. Also, note the date at the top of the screen.

HMS Argus, another of the first aircraft carriers. A resonable a/c complement, her lack of armor makes her a vulnerable target. She should be employed with caution.

HMNZS New Zealand. "New Zealand's gift to the empire." For WPO purposes, she has been loaned New Zealand, and is at anchor at Auckland when war breaks out. She, along with HMAS Australia, represent the only two British capital ships in the Pacific at the start of the mod.

HMS Anson, one of Britains never weres. She, along with her sisters Howe and Rodney, were historically scrapped thanks to the Treaty of 1922. We all know what befell her other sister however.

That does it for this update. I will try to post another, with some battle screens, but I am wanting to focs more on getting the project done than posting updates. Enjoy!

< Message edited by Tankerace -- 12/3/2004 12:01:32 AM >

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Post #: 1

RE: War Plan Orange: December Update Part I - 12/2/2004 8:36:48 AM

Tankerace

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Don't worry, I have already fixed the Courageous's RS Torp mount that has 50 armor, and the Furious' a/c compliment.

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RE: War Plan Orange: December Update Part I - 12/2/2004 8:42:07 AM

Platoonist

Posts: 1342
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From: Kila Hana
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If Wild Bill Kelso wants me to play..I'm there.

Excellent work. Can't wait to peel this Orange.

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RE: War Plan Orange: December Update Part I - 12/2/2004 10:43:52 AM

janushm

Posts: 218
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From: 's-Hertogenbosch, netherlands
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the argus!!! og goody..you made my day

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Post #: 4

RE: War Plan Orange: December Update Part I - 12/2/2004 5:16:04 PM

mlees

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From: San Diego
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You might have already explained before, but I missed it...

Why does your HMS Furious not have AC capacity value?

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Post #: 5

RE: War Plan Orange: December Update Part I - 12/2/2004 6:33:17 PM

Tankerace

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As I said in my second post, that was an old screenie, it has already been fixed, along With HMS Courageous 6 tubes on the starborad side having 50mm of armor. Old bug, already fixed.

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RE: War Plan Orange: December Update Part I - 12/2/2004 6:44:41 PM

mlees

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Oops, got distracted by the pretty pictures, sorry.

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RE: War Plan Orange: December Update Part I - 12/2/2004 8:29:50 PM

TIMJOT

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Great Work Tankerace. Just wondering though, whats with all the UK ships if this is a War Plan Orange Scenerio? WPO postulated a US vs Japan only war. Thats why the plan envisioned a dash accross the central pacific to the the PI, they didnt expect to be able to use UK and Dutch bases in South or Southwest pacific. If you are doing a 1920s Japan vs. US/UK scenerio it will be a short one.

Are you by any chance also planning a War plan Red/Orange? Its not as far fetched as it might appear. Japan and Britain had a mutual defence pact until the early 1920s and if the assumption is no Washington treaty and thus a Naval arms race. It is concievable that Britain might have considered extending the pact as the only way to counter balance unchallengable US Naval might. I believe with the scuttleing of the German High Seas Fleet. A Royal Naval study after the war indentified the USN as the number one potential enemy.

Regards

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RE: War Plan Orange: December Update Part I - 12/2/2004 10:02:08 PM

Tankerace

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I put the British ships in, because 1) I wanted to use them

, 2) I am going to include some what if scenarios detailing fleet actions between the Japanese and British, 3) I am planning 2 PBEM only Jutland scenarios, 1 variant US vs Japan, the other Britain vs Japan.

Also, I am debating after it is released on doing a Red Orange, or a Pacific Red.

The main reason I am including the RN is when I started this, my goal was (to paraphrase my first post) create a full 1920's database, allowing a plethora of possible scenarios, both from me and users.

The main action will be between the US and Japan. However, Britain will send a limited (read limited) number of ships to the Pacific. Remember, each of the campaigns I am designing last up to four years. After a while, Britain (especially if Japan goes for the SRA) will want to get into the fight. It is also there as balance. Since there are no "accelerated moves", the Allied player doesn't know what Japan is going to do. So, if the player does decide to make a grab for Australia, the DEI, or Malay, Britain would historically have been forced to respond.

Hey Mlees, no worries. I'll probably post an new one reflecting corrected OOB. Also, great avatar, way to get in the spirit of things.

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RE: War Plan Orange: December Update Part I - 12/2/2004 10:29:17 PM

mlees

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I was hoping someone would notice my avatar.

Question:

You stated that the British would only send limited ships to the Pacific.

Why?

There's no reason to keep them in Europe, Germany and Russia were in Chaos (although, I guess the Russian Civil War COULD distract the Admiralty...).
There was no tension with France, the only other naval power in the immediate vicinity. So, until Mussolini grabs power (Nineteen Twenty What?), the RN is available for redeployment in case of tensions or war with Japan. As a matter of fact, Australia and New Zealand would be SCREAMING for just that.

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RE: War Plan Orange: December Update Part I - 12/2/2004 10:37:39 PM

Tankerace

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Hence the limited part. A year or two in to the scenario, when Britain realizes that America is not a threat, it will begin to deploy to the Pacific. At the start of the game, the US will not receive its entire dreadnought fleet, because it too must guard against Britain. Britain, similarly, cannot deploy for the same reason. However, as time passes, both countries will begin to deploy to the Pacific.

At this time, while both regarded Japan as a threat, Britain was more worried about the US, and the US about Britain. By limited deployment, I mean under 10 battleships. Later in the war, however, It is quite possible that the British Grand Fleet might traverse the Panama Canal and show up and San Diego. Earlier in the war, however, Britain will send just enough ships to safe guard East Asia interests, and bolster the RAN and RNZN.

I am also doing this as a balance measure. Like Timjot pointed out, if In the first 3 months of the War, the US shifts its entire Atlantic fleet and the British their entire Navy to the Pacific, there is no point. But, by reflecting 1920's politics into the game, it helps balance it out. The US must make sure that Britain will not try to help Japan, and Britain is still untrustworthy of the Americans (remember, WWI was the first time the US hadn't fought the Brits, and even in the Versailles treaty it said "The Allied Powers and the United States". The atmosphere was very different in 1922 than in 1939.

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RE: War Plan Orange: December Update Part I - 12/2/2004 11:03:45 PM

mlees

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Your gonna have the Japanese fanboys complaining on how they can't win the war against the Allied BB deathstars of 1928.

Appreciate the glimpse into your vision of the OOB setup.

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RE: War Plan Orange: December Update Part I - 12/2/2004 11:13:13 PM

Tankerace

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Not a problem.

Actually, if Japan can force a Jutland within the first 7 months of the war, it stands a damn good chance of winning. However, if it waits before forcing the battle, then it can be equated to the Germany of 1918. Having the smaller navy, it can attempt to bring the fight, but it will mostly be nothing but a "death ride" of the Japanese fleet.

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RE: War Plan Orange: December Update Part I - 12/2/2004 11:21:20 PM

Tankerace

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From: Stillwater, OK, United States
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New screens! Note Furious' corret a/c capacity, and something else new on her. Same goes for the Argus. Enjoy!

The flights an Argus are ahistorical, but fit in witht the naming pattern. I couldn't find info on Furious 1922 a/c flights, but she did carry those five flights in the leter 1920s.

For those who don't know, Sopwith Camels are WWI fighters, Sopwith Cuckoos are WWI designed torpedo planes, and Fairey IIIs are carrier based and catapault launched scouts.

< Message edited by Tankerace -- 12/2/2004 3:27:19 PM >

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RE: War Plan Orange: December Update Part I (NEW SCREENS!) - 12/2/2004 11:52:17 PM

Oliver Heindorf

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Hey Tanker,

just to say

1 hello

2 to thank you !

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RE: War Plan Orange: December Update Part I (NEW SCREENS!) - 12/3/2004 4:02:42 AM

Tankerace

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A very hearty "your welcome!"

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RE: War Plan Orange: December Update Part I (NEW SCREENS!) - 12/3/2004 7:11:44 AM

Arsaces

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Great stuff Tankerace !

I'm really looking forward to this.

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RE: War Plan Orange: December Update Part I (NEW SCREENS!) - 12/3/2004 8:01:06 AM

Tankerace

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From: Stillwater, OK, United States
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New screens, British Airgroups!

Sopwith Camel. While a limited number of Snipes become available, to ensure a plethora of replacements it would be better to keep most units as Camels.

The Sopwith Cuckoo. The only British Torpedo bomber. A WWI plane, it is nonethless a good bomber. However, it has no machineguns, and is pretty much defenseless.

The Faiery IIID. This is the shipboard version for use on carriers and flying off platforms. Since most British ships don't have catapaults, I am either going to use this or the Camel, have the game think it is a float plane, and simulate a flying off platform. Note that this is a maybe.

EDIT: I fixed the Camel's range from 240 miles to 300 miles.

< Message edited by Tankerace -- 12/3/2004 12:13:19 AM >

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RE: War Plan Orange: December Update Part I (NEW SCREENS!) - 12/3/2004 8:31:56 AM

Jorm

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Tanker if you need help with side pics ( profiles) of all the japanese planes from the time , i have a heap of them

do you epxect any 'game system ' problems with have the aircraft NORMAL and EXTENDED ranges being the same value for some a/c ?

I had alook for 1922 HMS Furious attached squadrons, it didnt have any at in 1922 as it was in major refit.
The ones you have assigned are an excellent compromise
cheers
Paul

< Message edited by Jorm -- 12/3/2004 6:39:18 AM >

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RE: War Plan Orange: December Update Part I (NEW SCREENS!) - 12/3/2004 8:40:04 AM

Tankerace

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Thanks. I've got the Japanese planes that I am doing. For a/c, you don't enter ranges, you enter endurance (number of minutes in the air). So, I have had to put in some unrealitic endurance values to get the correct mileage out of the plane.

I have good side pics for all of the Japanese planes to base my graphics on (I hand draw them).

I am debating on having the Furious in the second campaing (26-29) appearing in her 1925 guise.

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There's a new Deathstar in town, baby! - 12/3/2004 11:31:29 AM

Tankerace

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Screw the Kido Butai. Meet the US Pacific Fleet!

Talk about Jutlandesque Firepower....mwuahahahahahahahahahaha

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RE: There's a new Deathstar in town, baby! - 12/3/2004 1:42:50 PM

steveh11Matrix

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Screw the Kido Butai. Meet the US Pacific Fleet!

<CUT pictures>
Talk about Jutlandesque Firepower....mwuahahahahahahahahahaha

Only 9 BB? Pitiful....

(The Grand Fleet - Just Jellicoe's units, ignoring Beatty's - had 24 BB and 3 BC, plus 8 AC, 12 LC and 50 DD.)

Of course, by 1922 things were different, at least in real life. But I can't speak for your - wonderful looking - WPO mod!

Steve.

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RE: There's a new Deathstar in town, baby! - 12/3/2004 3:27:05 PM

ZonkerHarris

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Looks like this will be a lot of fun to play with! But I'm going to mod this mod by using some custom side art for the Sopwith Camel:

Attachment (1)

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RE: There's a new Deathstar in town, baby! - 12/3/2004 3:58:06 PM

String

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gee.. those planes are gonna be real usefull i see :D

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RE: There's a new Deathstar in town, baby! - 12/3/2004 5:09:21 PM

Tankerace

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quote:

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Screw the Kido Butai. Meet the US Pacific Fleet!

<CUT pictures>
Talk about Jutlandesque Firepower....mwuahahahahahahahahahaha

Only 9 BB? Pitiful....
(The Grand Fleet - Just Jellicoe's units, ignoring Beatty's - had 24 BB and 3 BC, plus 8 AC, 12 LC and 50 DD.)

Of course, by 1922 things were different, at least in real life. But I can't speak for your - wonderful looking - WPO mod!

Steve.

Keep in mind this sis when war breaks out... Once the Atlantic and Pacific fleets, plus the never weres come in.... then it gets interesting.

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RE: War Plan Orange: December Update Part I - 12/3/2004 6:26:09 PM

TIMJOT

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

I put the British ships in, because 1) I wanted to use them , 2) I am going to include some what if scenarios detailing fleet actions between the Japanese and British, 3) I am planning 2 PBEM only Jutland scenarios, 1 variant US vs Japan, the other Britain vs Japan.

Ok I get it now. Dont get me wrong I am glad you are putting in the time to include them. In fact with your permision I would like to use your OOB and Artwork in a 1930s WPO Mod I plan on doing in the future. Again Great work!

Regards

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War Plan Orange, new feature 12/4/04! - 12/4/2004 10:56:01 PM

Tankerace

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Well, first off I want to say the community response to the "War Plan Orange: Announcement" Thread has been phenominal.

Well, I was working on the mod, and I was trying to decide what to do about AK conversions. COnverting to ARs, ADs, and ASs are well and good, but AVs and MLEs weren't that common in the 1920s. What to do. Then I reread the thread about HMAS Australia, and one word in that thread gave me the idea: Kormoran. You guessed it! On both the Japanese and Allies side, when you convert a large AK you get Q ships! They are listed as AKs, but have a strong gun battery (The American example has 6 5"/51 Mk 7s) and depth charges. There are two kinds, that are basically the same. When you click convert to MLE, you get a variant with a Y gun. The Y gun throws DCs over the side, 2 at a time. If you click convert to seaplane tender (AV), you get a kind with 2 DC racks.

They are listed as AKs, so that if a sub attacks (thinking it is a standard merchie), it gets blown out of the water. It may even be able to fend off a lone destroyer in a night action. In a pinch, they could probably be used as convoy escorts, though for the most part they will still behave like transports.

So, the first WPO Q ship:

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RE: War Plan Orange, new feature 12/4/04! - 12/4/2004 11:27:33 PM

Ron Saueracker

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Sneaky and fun!

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RE: War Plan Orange, new feature 12/4/04! - 12/4/2004 11:37:25 PM

FDRLincoln

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Would a Q-ship be something we could work up with the editor and use in a regular scenario, or is this something that requires modifications to the code itself?

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RE: War Plan Orange, new feature 12/4/04! - 12/5/2004 12:13:32 AM

Tankerace

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All a Q ship is is a transport with guns on it. Other ships think its an AK, so that's how I'm trating it. The game and the enemy see it as an AK, but when a sub comes up to shoot it out, BLAMMO!

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