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Sea Lion - 11/9/2004 11:39:10 PM

coregames

Posts: 470
Joined: 8/12/2004
Status: offline

I have played lots of WiF, but have yet to see the Axis land troops in the UK. Is Sea Lion a viable option? The Axis has taken Gibralter in two of the games I've been in, and neither time did they opt for an invasion of England. In one instance it took them so long they had to wait til '43 for Russia.

I would love to hear people's experience with Sea Lion, as the next time I play I will assuredly want to play Germany, and I want to get some idea of how it stacks up to Barbarossa or Southern strategies. This might help Matrix too, since it should be an important option on the computer as well.

< Message edited by coregames -- 11/9/2004 9:40:24 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Sea Lion - 11/10/2004 4:24:57 AM

vonpaul

Posts: 178
Joined: 8/5/2004
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline

sea lion can only work in certain circumstances eg. sealion '40

a. The German player builds for it (early)
b. the Allied player neglects England (usually requires pressure elsewhere)
c. The german player has the guts to go for it.

Sealion is a crab shot usually and due to the expense involved and the potential for a quick total defeat if it is a failure is not tried that often.

sealion '41 is usually easier to perform (assuming italy is involved) but means you are definetly going to going up against

a. less time
b. more enemy forces

Its a big risk, if you pull it off the game could still end badly for you eg. the Soviets can still roll over you in the east and the americans can still come back at you as opposed to rolling over the soviet and nothing can touch you

(in reply to coregames)

Post #: 2

RE: Sea Lion - 11/11/2004 11:33:08 PM

Greyshaft

Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline

In WiF 5 Global War (+ PIF) I did a Sealion plus took Iceland then built a defensive wall in the East against Russia. USSR was an effective stalemate for years although by the end of the war they had taken Warsaw and were grinding unstoppably westward at about one hexrow per turn. USA managed to invade and capture neutral Ireland although I hung onto Belfast... another stalemate. Lucky die rolls plus the UK going for an "Italy First" build-up in the Med was what won the war for the Axis.

Barring lucky die rolls I say Sealion is *extremely* risky against a competent allied player.

_____________________________

/Greyshaft

(in reply to vonpaul)

Post #: 3

RE: Sea Lion - 12/3/2004 5:56:28 PM

Tancred

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Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline

When we started our last game of WIF, and I knew I was to play Germany, I decided on going for Sealion. i had read the memoirs of Manstein, where he outlined the simple strategic concept of finishing off your enemy before you start a new war.

But the more I thought about it the harder it seemed. The Royal Navy is tough in 1939 and will usually become even stronger. The potential strength of the RAF in FTR and NAV is very discouraging. Perhaps the greatest drawback in WIF:FE is the fact that if you land in England you will not only upset the US, but CW production will increase by 50%!

It would be much better to prepare for Sealion in 1936...

I decided to take a shot at it, but was terrified of being drawn into the UK and then halted before I could capture several factories.

The Key to defend the UK, however is to watch GE production. My opponent didn't. I laid a detailed production plan that would allow an invasion in M/A 1941 WITHOUT the Italian fleet, and most likely before an assault on Gibraltar. This surprised him, standard strategy is to wait for the Italian fleet.
I also planned meticously to keep all forces and especially the Luftwaffe away from the Channel for as long as possible.
In the end he didn't expect anything untill in J/F 1941 the entire Luftwaffe suddenly took up position on the Channel and North Sea coasts.

My invasion was cautious, but with a small but strong fleet and a superior airforce he was not able to stop me. He managed to sink most of my fleet, but in the end I had 15 corps in England compared to 6 of his, and more than 20 air units compared to 5 of his.

Some advice:

1. Plan carefully - expect your plan to be modified by the RAF Bombers
You need PARAs, MAR, MTN, Divs and plenty of air units.

2. Invade Spain - This is to draw attention and maybe some CW units there. Remember though, this will delay Vichying France.

3. Encourage aggressive Italian play - especially against a CW player who would like to attack Italy early on.

4. Focus on strategic air war - this means build a superior airforce that can dominate the North Sea and England. You need several ATRs as well to carry PARA and extra reinforcements. I advance-built long-range FTR and the BV-222 from 1941 in 1940. Strategic air war means 1st priority is to kill as many CW planes as possible.

5. Surprise is worth 10 SS Panzer Corps! - It is great to have the Italian Fleet in the Atlantic. It's even better to invade an empty England!

6. Be realistic - If the CW builds up a stong army and a big airforce in the UK, I say forget about it. Keep the initiative. Use your NAVs and Fleet to harass his convoys, and use your AMPHS and MAR to invade the Soviets instead.

_____________________________

"We are all worms... But I do believe I am a Glowworm", Winston Churchill

(in reply to coregames)

Post #: 4

RE: Sea Lion - 12/4/2004 4:49:03 AM

coregames

Posts: 470
Joined: 8/12/2004
Status: offline

This is the best advice I've seen yet. A correlary strategy would be to go for Gibralter and have Italian help in SeaLion if possible, or failing that, have surprise in a German-only invasion attempt. Thanks Tancred, you've given me a lot to think about.

(in reply to Tancred)

Post #: 5