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The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 11/26/2004 5:20:04 AM

KG Erwin
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Is it just me, or has the Marine Corps suffered in their Hollywood portrayals? We have "Sands of Iwo Jima" and "Windtalkers", both of which I think just sucked wind in offering any semblance of the real USMC experience in WWII. The best, to my mind, is "Halls of Montezuma". It's fictional, and was done in 1950, BUT it gives insights into the mindsets of the real WWII Gyrene that none of the others do. What do you guys think?
Clint Eastwood is working on a film adaptation of James Bradley's "Flags of Our Fathers", and I hope he gets it right.

This seems strange to me, in that the USMC has so much fantastic combat footage from WWII, and the Corps are masters at promoting their heritage and history. I had really hoped that "Windtalkers" would give us the equivalent of "SPR" for the Pacific theater, but John Woo botched it up completely, and made it a cartoonish piece of junk. These men deserve better.

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RE: The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 11/26/2004 11:20:37 AM

Belisarius
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Maybe the coming HBO miniseries will correct that.

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RE: The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 11/26/2004 3:39:42 PM

Hexed Gamer
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The problem with doing WW2 marines in the Pacific is the carnage.

Tarawa, the whole film ends up looking mostly like the first 30 minutes of SPR.

Most other battles, same comment.

Thats assuming you focus on marines.

You would need to make the film about the war in general, because the navy was to intrinsically involved.

It's not that they have run out of battles to portray, but how much money can you make on pure carnage sequences?

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RE: The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 11/26/2004 3:55:50 PM

RBWhite
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My Dad was Marine in the Pacific Theater 1943, 44, 45. If he were still here with us today and I showed him your thread he would completly agree with you, and if he knew how to use one of these "damn machines" I don't think you would be able to get a word in edge wise, Matrix probly would have to lock the thread after a week or two just to free up space.

I can remember sitting in the local VFW back in the late 50's with the membership watching that footage Army, Army Air Corp, Navy, Marine on the weekends, many men trembled & cried.

To give them their due once and for all, either use the combat footage or recreate it to the tee with today film technology and use alot of the old boys that are left as consultants.

Rick White

< Message edited by RBWhite -- 11/26/2004 4:20:02 PM >

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RE: The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 11/26/2004 5:06:58 PM

.50Kerry
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The Marines RAWK!

< Message edited by .50Kerry -- 11/26/2004 10:30:46 AM >

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RE: The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 11/26/2004 7:36:23 PM

RBWhite
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Hexed Gamer

To say that the Navy was too "intrinsically involved" is not accurate, wouldn't it be best said as that the Navy and Marine Corp are intrinsic. Each is dependant on the other.

Rick White

< Message edited by RBWhite -- 11/26/2004 6:08:52 PM >

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RE: The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 11/26/2004 10:02:31 PM

KG Erwin
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Oops, I was mistaken about "Flags of Our Fathers". The movie rights were indeed bought by Spielberg's production company, but I haven't heard any news lately about the progress of this HBO miniseries.

However, Clint Eastwood IS working on an Iwo Jima movie, which could be released either next year or in early 2006.

Both of these projects are eagerly awaited by yours truly.

BTW, the webmaster of WWII Gyrene, Mark Flowers, mentioned "Battle Cry" (1955) to me as his favorite USMC movie. I haven't seen it yet.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 11/26/2004 3:06:50 PM >

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RE: The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 11/27/2004 12:10:59 AM

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Well if Clint's new film is anything like that trash that he made called "Heartbreak Ridge" then it will simply be a WOFTAM.

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RE: The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 11/27/2004 12:56:43 AM

SeaMonkey
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"Battle Cry" was a great book also, movie was decent, but I would love to see something displaying the gallantry and "Esprite D'corps" that the USMC represents through its historical endeavors. Now don't get me wrong, all of our armed forces deserve and get our greatest admiration. I sit in awe of the men and women that carry the philosophy of freedom for all humans across the planet and are willing to put their lifes on the line to preserve it. So often I see things written and said about the special forces of certain military branches, like the Seals, Delta Force, Airborne, Rangers, and Green Berets of the past and they are very "Special Forces" in their own right and I wish to not diminish their accomplishments in any manner. But their is something special about the Marines, its kind of unsaid, something that seems to exist in their very souls of the "corps", not easy to put your finger on. I guess the best way for me to say it is there's a reason why the Marines don't have a "special" faction and that is because the Marines are America's "Special Forces".

< Message edited by SeaMonkey -- 11/26/2004 11:04:48 PM >

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RE: The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 11/27/2004 1:20:04 AM

KG Erwin
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaMonkey

"Battle Cry" was a great book also, movie was decent, but I would love to see something displaying the gallantry and "Esprite D'corps" that the USMC represents through its historical endeavors. Now don't get me wrong, all of our armed forces deserve and get our greatest admiration. I sit in awe of the men and women that carry the philosophy of freedom for all humans across the planet and are willing to put their lifes on the line to preserve it. So often I see things written and said about the special forces of certain military branches, like the Seals, Delta Force, Airborne, Rangers, and Green Berets of the past and they are very "Special Forces" in their own right and I wish to not diminsh their accomplishments in any manner. But their is something special about the Marines, its kind of unsaid, something that seems to exist in their very souls of the "corps", not easy to put your finger on. I guess the best way for me to say it is there's a reason why the Marines don't have a "special" faction and that is because the Marines are America's "Special Forces".

Amen, SeaMonkey. I have become a self-parody at times, because of my unadulterated admiration for the Marines. I don't care. They DESERVE all the admiration we can give them, and I'll continue to write about them.

(Historical note: when the Raider and Parachute battalions were formed in 1942, even then, a controversy was engendered because all Marines were considered elite, so forming these special units rubbed some the wrong way. I have the highest respect for the Raiders of WWII, AND the Marine Parachute Battalions, but they were disbanded in 1944 and folded into line infantry regiments. That redesignation did nothing to reduce their status as elites. The Raiders became the nucleus of the reformed 4th Marine Regiment, and the Parachutists were folded into the new 5th Marine Division, which performed heroically at Iwo Jima.)

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 11/26/2004 6:28:05 PM >

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RE: The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 11/27/2004 1:34:55 AM

Goblin
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Marines do have special forces units; the Force Recon units. They operate much like SEAL's.

Goblin

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RE: The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 11/27/2004 1:47:00 AM

KG Erwin
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raverdave

Well if Clint's new film is anything like that trash that he made called "Heartbreak Ridge" then it will simply be a WOFTAM.

What is a WOFTAM? I'm sure it isn't positive, and yes, I do have some concerns with Clint's project.

Hexed gamer touched upon a valid point, though. The sheer intensity and extreme violence of this theater of war will be difficult to portray, without descending into an extended SPR-type opening, and having the viewer simply being numbed by repeated scenes of gruesome death on the battlefield. These are legitimate concerns.

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RE: The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 11/27/2004 2:03:00 AM

RBWhite
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WOFTAM??

I would think its not positve, probly on the same lines as FUBAR & AWAF

Waste of f_ _ king time and material.

< Message edited by RBWhite -- 11/27/2004 11:29:30 AM >

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RE: The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 11/27/2004 2:44:32 AM

KG Erwin
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One of the main selections for the Military Book Club in the December flyer is "Gunner's Glory: Untold Stories of Marine Machine Gunners", by Johnnie M. Clark, who served as a machine-gunner with the 5th Marines in Vietnam.

Guess what will be on my Christmas list. Guys like us are what keep this book club alive.

PS I know of two WWII gunners right now that must be mentioned--John Basilone and Mitchell Paige. Apart from officers and medics, machine-gunners and mortar crewmen were prime targets for the Japanese, for obvious reasons.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 11/26/2004 8:19:00 PM >

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RE: The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 11/27/2004 6:50:41 PM

IronDuke_slith
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I think the problem with the Pacific theatre is always going to be (in terms of ground combat) that it was a place where normal rules didn't always count. I think it'd be hard to potray accurately without giving today's theatre going public a little more than they bargained for.

Spielberg hinted at this aspect of WWII in SPR when he had the two GIs execute the two surrendering German soldiers on Omaha. The Pacific was another world, matched only by the russian front.

I remember a couple of good documentary series two or three years back. One was called horror in the east, the other Hell in the pacific. Although they took several themes about the war, one was the pretty unparalleled savagery. Japanese savagery is rather gruesomely documented, and they had an episode on the fate of prisoners and those in the occupied territories. Another, though, centred on the fighting and interviewed several marines and sailors.

What was clear was that they essentially considered the Japanese sub-human and frequently acted accordingly. So, there was one sailor who related visiting the bowels of his ship which had been hit by a Kamikaze. He found the pilots leg, and it ended up being boilded and turned into necklaces for the ship's crew.

Another Guy (a Marine as I remember) remembered being bawled out by his officer for capturing two Japanese soldiers and ruining (as the Officer put it) his unit's record of never taking a Jap alive. The Officer ordered his Sergeant to take the prisoners to Battalion HQ, a fifteen minute walk away. He ordered the Sergeant back in five minutes, which he duly was, the prisoners were shot.

Another guy recalled sitting eating rations atop a cliff on one of the islands idly watching Japanese Civilians throw themselves off as they'ed been poisoned by their own army's proganda into thinking they'ed be mistreated.

Wars aren't attractive, but some are less attractive than others. In some ways, it makes the men's experiences even more important to tell, but if you want complete realism, over an extended period of time, particularly towards the end of the war, you're going to get an awful lot that we in our sanitised, safe and gentler world would find disturbing. The media and public reaction to certain events in Iraq, where a Marine is alleged (on camera) to have shot a wounded man bare this point out. I'm eagerly awaiting the mini series, Band of Brothers was terrific, but lets be careful about what we ask for.

Regards,
IronDuke

< Message edited by IronDuke -- 11/27/2004 4:51:18 PM >

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RE: The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 12/4/2004 6:07:29 PM

Devil Doc
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Hello there: Doc Flowers here. Glenn invited me to join your forum, & here I am! I think Sands Iwo Jima is a fun movie to watch. Does it have any real historical significance–no. There was no outfit in the Corps that served on Tarawa & Iwo Jima. The conflict between Stryker & Conway was completely Hollywood.

I think the Corps' WW2 battles would be an outstanding vehicle for a good war picture. The brotherhood of small units fighting for survival in the toughest conditions kend themselves well to the screen, I think.

My favorite WW2 Marine films:

Battle Cry
Guadalcanal Diary
Shores of Tripoli
Halls of Montezuma
Sands of Iwo Jima

When you think Clint Eastwood for Flags of Our Fathers, consider some of his recent films as a director: Unforgiven, Bridges of Madison County, etc. I think he'll do a great job!

Windtalkers' story sucked. I know the guys who did the technical advising for this film. They did their best to make the actors look like Marines. John Woo had a specific theme, & his own style of story telling. There were some good pieces to Windtalkers, but overall it was a complete disappointment.

The Corps is still waiting for its own Saving Private Ryan.

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RE: The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 12/4/2004 6:44:54 PM

KG Erwin
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Well, hello, Doc Flowers. I'm happy that you accepted my invitation. I gave your site a plug on the Steel Panthers forum, and I'll recommend it here, too ( http://www.ww2gyrene.org/ ) .

Welcome aboard!

You honor us with your presence.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 12/4/2004 11:54:57 AM >

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RE: The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 12/6/2004 3:02:04 AM

New York Jets
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Full Metal Jacket, anyone?

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RE: The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 12/6/2004 6:04:57 AM

Sarge
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Trog

Full Metal Jacket, anyone?

Outstanding choice

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RE: The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 12/6/2004 7:26:59 PM

tanker4145
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How about good books they could turn into movies (of course very dependant on what the Hollywood writers and directors and etc. do to it)? I think "With the Old Breed" by E.B. Sledge would be great! Especially if they follow him from OCS to dropping out and becoming a private, etc. Of course, again I think the hard thing is, as is already mentioned, there isn't a ton of room for plot development like in SPR. All those scenes where they were walking and talking, I just don't see many of those in the Pacific.

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RE: The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 12/7/2004 2:15:33 AM

Devil Doc
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I think you're wrong about plot development. For example, the 4th MarDiv mounted out direct from the West Coast for the Marshalls campaign, then went on to 4 campaigns on 13 months. It's a mistake to think Marines never did anything but fight the Japanese. They lived, drank beer, played ball, etc, just like Soldiers did. I agree 101% that EB Sledge's books would make an outstanding vehicle for a mini-series.

Let's keep our fingers crossed!

Semper Fidelis, Frater Aeterni

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RE: The Best USMC Hollywood Movies - 12/7/2004 4:14:53 PM

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Devil Doc, after thinking about it you are right. Even in Sledge's book, they have the break between Peleliu (I can never spell that island) and Okinawa. I can't remember where they were, but I know they were doing training and there's the part about doing a detail to clean out 55 gallon drums used to store fuel or something and they half assed it and later used the drums to get drinking water from at Okinawa. I think they could make it into a SPR type of movie, but I think the best way, whether it's with Sledge's book or another or a historical fiction story, is the mini-series. As good as SPR is, I think Band of Brothers blows it away since you get to know the guys more over time.

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