RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 50 ships in day and night)...

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 50 ships in day and night)...

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 50 ships in day and night)...

Page: << < prev 4 5 [6] 7 8 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/22/2004 7:48:27 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

As promised here are test results against transport ships when B-29's are substituted by B-17E's - everything else is same as in previous tests (see below for more details and cross-check with similar test in this same thread when no AAA was present)!

IMPORTANT NOTE:
In order to achieve this I just changed aircraft type used by bomber groups from B-29 to B-17E. This way all pilots are same and leaders are also the same. I also changed B-17E endurance to match the endurance of B-29 (without this they would lack range).

Description:

I created brand new custom scenario for this testing.

There are only 3 islands present: Marcus Island, Wake Island and Midway. Marcus Island is IJN base while Midway is USN base. For this test Wake Island is made Japanese base with both Port and Airbase (and SPS) of 6.

There are 7 Japanese LCU's (1x 2nd Fleet HQ, 2x Heavy AA Bn and 4x AA Rgt) at Wake Island together with ships in port.

Weather is always clear.

FoW is OFF.

Two B-17E's groups have their default leaders (50's/60's ratings) while their EXP and morale is set to 70.

The B-17E's have to fly 14 HEXes from Midway to Wake Island.

The B-17E's attack from 10000ft.

In Japanese held port there are 10x AO, 10x TK and 30x AP ships (all sizes and shapes).

5 consecutive runs of scenario in day (i.e. daytime bombings):

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 87

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 18 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AP Awa Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Azuchi Maru, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 2
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Hayamoto, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Iro, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Kazahaya, Bomb hits 2
AP Hakone Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
645 casualties reported
Guns lost 24

Port hits 14
Port supply hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
48 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
24 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 91

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 26 damaged

Japanese Ships
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Azuchi Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Hakone Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Kazahaya, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
404 casualties reported
Guns lost 17

Port hits 11
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
48 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
20 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
8 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
15 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 89

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 4 destroyed, 22 damaged

Japanese Ships
AO Kazahaya, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Hakone Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Hayamoto, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Iro, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
284 casualties reported
Guns lost 16

Port hits 6
Port fuel hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
46 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
11 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 91

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 28 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Awa Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Iro, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AP Azuchi Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AO Hayamoto, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 2
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Hakone Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
731 casualties reported
Guns lost 32

Port hits 10
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
36 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
26 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 93

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 28 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 2
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Iro, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Hakone Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 2
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Azuchi Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
436 casualties reported
Guns lost 20

Port hits 9
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
36 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
32 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

1 run of scenario at night (i.e. night bombing) for comparison only:

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/02/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 59

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 13 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Azuchi Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
201 casualties reported
Guns lost 13

Port hits 1
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
32 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

Discussion:

Similar to my previous B-29's test the B-17E's also wrecked havoc similar to when there was no Japanese AAA present.

Also there was just one instance of test run when there were destroyed B-17E's.

One other thing - attack at night was the most massive one I ever saw in any of my test...

Note that Japanese AAA units consist of:

Heavy AA Bn (2 units used):

105mm AA Gun x18
13 mm AAMG (2) x 6

Heavy AA Rgt (4 units used):

105mm AA Gun x12
75mm AA Gun x12
13 mm AAMG (2) x 8

Thus there were (in total):

105mm AA Gun x84
75mm AA Gun x48
13 mm AAMG (2) x44

Also note that that there were _NO_ 20mm AA Gun in OOB because only IJN AAA units have it and there are no separate IJN AA units in OOB - therefore I had to use the IJA AAA units (although the height at which bombers attacked = 10000 ft would be too high for 25mm anyways)...

Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 151

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/22/2004 7:50:25 PM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dereck

Another attempt by Japanese Fan Boys to skewer this game further away from history in your favor.

Get used to the fact that the Allied players have strategic bombers and when they are in range they will destroy your industry. That's what they did in real life and you want "realism" so deal with it.

As for all this heavy flak damage - once again you're trying to make your side stronger and the allied weaker. You complain that there was no precision bombing but conversely there was no precision AA either. You just shot it up in the air and if it hit something it hit ... most didn't.

And as far as Mr. Frag's statement about 90 bombers being too much over the target here are some facts about a number of B-29 air raids over Japan (taken from a web site - http://home.att.net/~sallyann2/b29.html - about the 9th Bombardment Group and also "The Rising Sun"):
25 Feb 1945          Tokyo                 201 B-29s
9/10 Mar 1945       Tokyo                 298 B-29s with only 14 lost
13 Mar 1945          Osaka                 300+ B-29s
16/17 Mar 1945     Kobe                   306 B-29s with the air rad lasting 2 hours 10 minutes
15/16 Apr 1945     Tokyo/Kawasaki   300+ aircraft with only 13 aircraft lost 
23 May 1945         Tokyo                  562 B-29s ... pg 837, "The Rising Sun"
26 May 1945         Tokyo                  502 B-29s ... pg 837, "The Rising Sun"
30 May 1945         Yokohama            517 B-29s ... pg 838, "The Rising Sun"
01 Jun 1945          Osaka                  458 B-29s
1/2 Aug 1945        Nagoaka              750 B-29s
It should also be noted that on the 1/2 August 1945 Nagoaka raid the B-29's had something like a 3000 mile run and dropped 6260 tons of bombs. The US 8th Air Force in Europe, in it's best effort over Cologne, Germany on 11 October 1944 dropped only 2923 tons in a 650 mile run.

No one is disputing city attacks at all. Thats exactly what they were made for.

It is when heavies are used for low alt attacks on non-city targets. Lets stick with the facts here. Go find some data that shows 100+ aircraft raids from anywhere other then Tainan against the Japanese homeland.

(in reply to dereck)

Post #: 152

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/22/2004 8:01:17 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

As promised here are test results against transport ships when B-29's are substituted by B-25C's - everything else is same as in previous tests (see below for more details and cross-check with similar test in this same thread when no AAA was present)!

IMPORTANT NOTE:
In order to achieve this I just changed aircraft type used by bomber groups from B-29 to B-25C. This way all pilots are same and leaders are also the same. I also changed B-25C endurance to match the endurance of B-29 (without this they would lack range).

Description:

I created brand new custom scenario for this testing.

There are only 3 islands present: Marcus Island, Wake Island and Midway. Marcus Island is IJN base while Midway is USN base. For this test Wake Island is made Japanese base with both Port and Airbase (and SPS) of 6.

There are 7 Japanese LCU's (1x 2nd Fleet HQ, 2x Heavy AA Bn and 4x AA Rgt) at Wake Island together with ships in port.

Weather is always clear.

FoW is OFF.

Two B-25C's groups have their default leaders (50's/60's ratings) while their EXP and morale is set to 70.

The B-25C's have to fly 14 HEXes from Midway to Wake Island.

The B-25C's attack from 10000ft.

In Japanese held port there are 10x AO, 10x TK and 30x AP ships (all sizes and shapes).

5 consecutive runs of scenario in day (i.e. daytime bombings):

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 94

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 12 destroyed, 20 damaged

Japanese Ships
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 1
AO Hayamoto, Bomb hits 1
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Hakone Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
336 casualties reported
Guns lost 15

Port hits 4
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
31 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
20 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
13 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
11 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
8 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 94

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 2 destroyed, 21 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Kazahaya, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Awa Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Iro, Bomb hits 1
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 1
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
455 casualties reported
Guns lost 20

Port hits 4
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
48 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
12 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 93

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 8 destroyed, 24 damaged

Japanese Ships
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Awa Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 1
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
367 casualties reported
Guns lost 14

Port hits 3
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
34 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
34 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
12 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 94

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 6 destroyed, 28 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 1
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Hayamoto, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 2
AP Hakone Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
240 casualties reported
Guns lost 13

Port hits 7
Port supply hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
36 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
35 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
5 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 94

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 2 destroyed, 24 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Iro, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Awa Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Hayamoto, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Arima Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Hakone Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
468 casualties reported
Guns lost 17

Port hits 4
Port fuel hits 4
Port supply hits 9

Aircraft Attacking:
48 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
20 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
21 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

1 run of scenario at night (i.e. night bombing) for comparison only:

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/02/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 84

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 4 destroyed, 14 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
127 casualties reported
Guns lost 6

Port hits 2
Port supply hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
46 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
36 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

Discussion:

Similar to my previous B-29's and B-17E's test the B-25C also wrecked havoc similar to when there was no Japanese AAA present.

This time, though, in every test run there were B-25C destroyed.

One other thing (again) - attack at night was the almost equal to daylight attack in strength (i.e. numbers of aircraft used) and this was the first time in all my tests that this happened...

Note that Japanese AAA units consist of:

Heavy AA Bn (2 units used):

105mm AA Gun x18
13 mm AAMG (2) x 6

Heavy AA Rgt (4 units used):

105mm AA Gun x12
75mm AA Gun x12
13 mm AAMG (2) x 8

Thus there were (in total):

105mm AA Gun x84
75mm AA Gun x48
13 mm AAMG (2) x44

Also note that that there were _NO_ 20mm AA Gun in OOB because only IJN AAA units have it and there are no separate IJN AA units in OOB - therefore I had to use the IJA AAA units (although the height at which bombers attacked = 10000 ft would be too high for 25mm anyways)...

Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 153

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/22/2004 8:43:41 PM

sveint

Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline

Japanese AA units aren't worth the supply they consume...

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 154

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/22/2004 9:04:41 PM

BoerWar

Posts: 506
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Arlington, VA
Status: offline

quote:

Japanese AA units aren't worth the supply they consume...

I think Apollo 11's runs provide some pretty good empirical data. Using the current WITP model in 4 raids half the AAA in the Japanese arsenal can't bring down more than 1-2 [assuming bogus reporting] out of 90 B-17/B-29 lumbering along at 10000. I guess the best the poor Japs should hope for is mechanical failure or maybe a delivery of bad beer at the U.S. o'club. Seems questionable to me.

Apollo can you try the same run using Betty's? Watch them get torn a new one. For grins maybe you can try it at 10K, 15K and 20K.

Thanks BTW, this is great stuff.

(in reply to sveint)

Post #: 155

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/22/2004 9:09:04 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoerWar

[assuming bogus reporting]

FoW was always OFF (in all my tests) - thus all results are 100% correct and accurate.

Leo "Apollo11"

P.S. Betty's would, probably, loose 50% of their strength... no doubt about it...

_____________________________

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to BoerWar)

Post #: 156

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/22/2004 9:21:41 PM

BoerWar

Posts: 506
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Arlington, VA
Status: offline

quote:

FoW was always OFF (in all my tests) - thus all results are 100% correct and accurate.

Thanks, 4 planes in four raids at that altitude with all that AAA is still pathetic.

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 157

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/22/2004 9:35:23 PM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline

Leo, as a point of interest, care to rerun the exact same set after dropping the durability down to that of a Nell just to see whether it is the AA fire or the aircraft that is the problem.

(in reply to BoerWar)

Post #: 158

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/22/2004 9:36:37 PM

dtravel

Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline

Can we get a test run (with or without AAA, don't think it matters for this) on an empty port? I think it would be enlightening to compare how much damage is done to the port facilities.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

(in reply to BoerWar)

Post #: 159

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/22/2004 9:40:15 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Leo, as a point of interest, care to rerun the exact same set after dropping the durability down to that of a Nell just to see whether it is the AA fire or the aircraft that is the problem.

Raymond I will most probably do it tomorrow - it's nearing 9 PM here and I haven't eaten yet... I will set both armour and durability for B-29 to be same as for Betty...

Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Mr.Frag)

Post #: 160

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/22/2004 9:41:46 PM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline

Just in time for me to take off

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 161

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/22/2004 9:42:16 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

Can we get a test run (with or without AAA, don't think it matters for this) on an empty port? I think it would be enlightening to compare how much damage is done to the port facilities.

I promised you and promise is a promise (and my word)... I will do that test as well...

Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to dtravel)

Post #: 162

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/22/2004 9:47:33 PM

dtravel

Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

Can we get a test run (with or without AAA, don't think it matters for this) on an empty port? I think it would be enlightening to compare how much damage is done to the port facilities.

I promised you and promise is a promise (and my word)... I will do that test as well...

Well, I can at least wait till you've eaten dinner.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 163

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/22/2004 10:29:29 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

As promised here are test results against port only.

Description:

I created brand new custom scenario for this testing.

There are only 3 islands present: Marcus Island, Wake Island and Midway. Marcus Island is IJN base while Midway is USN base. For this test Wake Island is made Japanese base with both Port and Airbase (and SPS) of 6.

There is nothing (no LCU's and aircraft) at Wake Island and no ships in port.

Weather is always clear.

FoW is OFF.

Two B-29's groups have their default leaders (50's/60's ratings) while their EXP and morale is set to 70.

The B-29's have to fly 14 HEXes from Midway to Wake Island.

The B-29's attack from 10000ft.

In Japanese held port there are 10x AO, 10x TK and 30x AP ships (all sizes and shapes).

5 consecutive runs of scenario in day (i.e. daytime bombings):

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 89

No Allied losses

Port hits 11
Port fuel hits 6
Port supply hits 8

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
8 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 80

No Allied losses

Port hits 12
Port fuel hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 84

No Allied losses

Port hits 19
Port fuel hits 3
Port supply hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
13 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 84

No Allied losses

Port hits 9
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
18 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
12 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
7 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
5 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 87

No Allied losses

Port hits 14
Port fuel hits 4
Port supply hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

1 run of scenario at night (i.e. night bombing) for comparison only:

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/02/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 72

No Allied losses

Port hits 11
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
36 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

Discussion:

At first glance it is obvious that there are more hits on port/supply/fuel now (when there is nothing on Wake except empty port) compared to when there were ships in port as well.

Please note that originally Wake had 50000 supplies and 10000 fuel at start (one can calculate actual loss using number of hits and this info).

Leo "Apollo11"

P.S. [Edit]
I have eaten my dinner...

< Message edited by Apollo11 -- 12/22/2004 9:30:58 PM >

_____________________________

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to dtravel)

Post #: 164

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/22/2004 10:56:54 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

As promised here are test results when B-29's are weakened to resemble G4M1 Betty's.

IMPORTANT NOTE:
In order to achieve this I only changed B-29 aircraft Durability and Armor to be same as G4M1 Betty.

Description:

I created brand new custom scenario for this testing.

There are only 3 islands present: Marcus Island, Wake Island and Midway. Marcus Island is IJN base while Midway is USN base. For this test Wake Island is made Japanese base with both Port and Airbase (and SPS) of 6.

There are 7 Japanese LCU's (1x 2nd Fleet HQ, 2x Heavy AA Bn and 4x AA Rgt) at Wake Island together with ships in port.

Weather is always clear.

FoW is OFF.

Two B-29's groups have their default leaders (50's/60's ratings) while their EXP and morale is set to 70.

The B-29's have to fly 14 HEXes from Midway to Wake Island.

The B-29's attack from 10000ft.

In Japanese held port there are 10x AO, 10x TK and 30x AP ships (all sizes and shapes).

5 consecutive runs of scenario in day (i.e. daytime bombings):

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 80

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 2 destroyed, 23 damaged

Japanese Ships
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Azuchi Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akebono Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
312 casualties reported
Guns lost 13

Port hits 2
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
11 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 83

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 22 damaged

Japanese Ships
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AO Kazahaya, Bomb hits 1
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Hayamoto, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 1
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Iro, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
336 casualties reported
Guns lost 15

Port hits 6
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
7 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
7 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 86

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 6 destroyed, 16 damaged

Japanese Ships
AO Kazahaya, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Choran Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AO Hayamoto, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Azuchi Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Iro, Bomb hits 3, on fire
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Awa Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 1
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
451 casualties reported
Guns lost 16

Port hits 9
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
19 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
19 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
20 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
11 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
10 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
1 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 79

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 10 destroyed, 13 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Arizana Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aikoku Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Iro, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Chichibu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 1
AP Awajisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
TK Amatsu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Azuchi Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Hayasui, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
611 casualties reported
Guns lost 22

Port hits 6
Port fuel hits 3
Port supply hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
17 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
7 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 80

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 4 destroyed, 16 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Achou Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatsuki Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Awa Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Atuta Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Aki Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Eiho Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Arugun Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Asama Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Akashisan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayo Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Amakasu Maru #1, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anzan Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
TK Eiyo Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AO Takasaki, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Astuga Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Ayato Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Akatuki Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Naruto, Bomb hits 2
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AO Hayamoto, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Aratama Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Ondo, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Azuchi Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AP Aiyo Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Africa Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Erimo, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Iro, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Fujisan Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Notoro, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
416 casualties reported
Guns lost 21

Port hits 9
Port fuel hits 4
Port supply hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
26 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
13 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
18 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
8 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

1 run of scenario at night (i.e. night bombing) for comparison only:

********************************************************************************

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/02/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 45

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 4 destroyed, 7 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Argentina Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arizona Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Awa Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Banshu Maru #21, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Ayatosan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Gokoku Maru, Bomb hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
82 casualties reported
Guns lost 6

Port hits 1
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet
25 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 10000 feet

********************************************************************************

Discussion:

As expected B-29's when weakened to be similar to G4M1 Betty (Durability and Armor wise) suffered much more damage and destroyed aircraft compared to all previous runs (i.e. when B-29's were normal B-29's).

Note that Japanese AAA units consist of:

Heavy AA Bn (2 units used):

105mm AA Gun x18
13 mm AAMG (2) x 6

Heavy AA Rgt (4 units used):

105mm AA Gun x12
75mm AA Gun x12
13 mm AAMG (2) x 8

Thus there were (in total):

105mm AA Gun x84
75mm AA Gun x48
13 mm AAMG (2) x44

Also note that that there were _NO_ 20mm AA Gun in OOB because only IJN AAA units have it and there are no separate IJN AA units in OOB - therefore I had to use the IJA AAA units (although the height at which bombers attacked = 10000 ft would be too high for 25mm anyways)...

Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Mr.Frag)

Post #: 165

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/22/2004 11:19:22 PM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline

Thanks Leo ... care to try the runs at 6k and 1k?

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 166

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/23/2004 1:30:26 AM

dtravel

Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline

Okay, just to baffle everyone equally, I created a spreadsheet to determine what percentage of the bombs dropped were hitting something. I input all the daylight attack Apollo11 ran except the one where he modified the B-29 to resemble a Betty. Format is as follows:

Target Merchants
Plane Type B-29
# planes 89 92 87 86 90
# bombs/plane 40 40 40 40 40
Total # bombs 3560 3680 3480 3440 3600

Port Hits 10 5 4 5 4
Fuel Hits 0 2 1 3 0
Supply Hits 2 2 0 2 4
Ship Hits 62 44 14 37 31
Total # hits 74 53 19 47 39

Hit Percentage: 2.08% 1.44% 0.55% 1.37% 1.08%

Avg Hit % 1.30%

Target indicates what was in port, aircraft type, # of planes, # bombs/plane and total bombs should be reasonably obvious.

Port, Fuel and Supply hits are pulled straight from the combat reports posted and assume each is one bomb hitting. Ship hits is the total of "bomb hits" from the combat reports. Total # of hits is, obviously, those four totalled.

Hit Percentage is (Total # hits) divided by (Total # bombs), expressed as a percentage. Avg Hit % is the five Hit Percentages averaged.

Argghhhh

. I can't put multiple spaces or tabs in to format that, so it is almost impossible to read. So I'm just going to type in the percentages and avg percentages. Spreadsheet (Excel) is available for anyone who wants to double check it, just send me a PM.

B-29s vs. Merchants: 2.08%, 1.44%, 0.55%, 1.37%, 1.08%. Avg: 1.30%
B-29s vs. Warships: 1.88, 1.53, 1.95, 1.67, 1.25. Avg. 1.65 (Dropping the '%' symbol, faster to type without it.)
B-29s w/50 EXP vs. Merchants: 0.78, 1.34, 1.80, 2.03, 1.62. Avg. 1.51
B-29s w/50 EXP vs. Warships: 1.79, 1.37, 1.14, 1.51, 1.38. Avg. 1.44
B-17Es vs. Merchants: 8.33, 5.56, 8.97, 5.80, 5.36. Avg. 6.80
B-17Es vs. Warships: 2.78, 3.85, 3.88, 3.52, 2.51. Avg. 3.31
B-25Cs vs. Merchants: 10.07, 18.84, 9.24, 16.14, 12.14. Avg. 13.29
B-25Cs vs. Warships: 9.55, 9.55, 9.63, 7.89, 9.42. Avg. 9.21
B-29s @30K vs. Merchants: 0.25, 0.19, 0.20, 0.28, 0.38. Avg. 0.25
B-29s @30K vs. Warships: 0.35, 0.17, 0.60, 0.09, 0.17. Avg. 0.28
B-29s vs. Merchants w/AAA: 2.18, 2.36, 1.28, 1.52, 1.94. Avg. 1.86
B-17Es vs. Merchants w/AAA: 8.62, 5.31, 4.12, 8.15, 5.82. Avg. 6.41
B-25Cs vs. Merchants w/AAA: 5.32, 7.45, 7.35, 5.67, 13.12. Avg. 7.78
B-29s vs. No ships in port: 0.70, 0.56, 0.83, 0.42, 0.69. Avg. 0.64

Observations in following post.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)

Post #: 167

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/23/2004 1:48:19 AM

dtravel

Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline

Okay, first some disclaimers. We really don't have a large enough sample. 100 runs of each set of parameters would be better, especially considering the very low percentages for some of these results. Also, for the runs with AAA units LCU casualties are ignored, I have no way of factoring those in. (How many bombs did it take to cause those losses?)

B-29s have trouble hitting the broadside of a fricking city. Even at only 10,000 feet (Apollo's base parameter) we're talking about around 1.5% under the best conditions. It is hard to draw any conclusions about warships vs. merchants using B-29s because with percentages that low, random chance plays too big a role. Altitude does seem to have an effect, dropping the accuracy from around 1.5% to around 0.25%

B-17s under the same conditions do much better than the B-29s. Versus merchant shipping they did 6.80% compared to the B-29s 1.30% and versus warships they did 3.31% compared to 1.65%. It gets even worse with B-25s, they do two to three times better than the B-17s. Remember, this is with the aircraft dropping from the same altitude and having the same experience. The aircraft you assign matters! Big time.

Ships in port versus no ships seems to indicate that hit percentage drops by half. But the numbers are already so low it is hard to tell. If we can persuade Apollo to run the 'no ships' variant with B-17s and B-25s also, then perhaps some kind of conclusion can be drawn.

AAA it is hard to tell. The B-29s actually did slightly better, but again, the percentages are already so low that random fluctations made it hard to draw conclusions. The B-17s did about the same while the B-25s did significantly worse. It appears that the larger the bomber, the less it is affected by AAA.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

(in reply to dtravel)

Post #: 168

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/23/2004 3:04:44 AM

dtravel

Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline

And just to bury people in some more numbers (but mostly 'cause I only just now thought of it), here are the percentages figured as (Total # hits) divided by (# of aircraft).

B-29s vs. Merchants: 83.15, 57.61, 21.84, 54.65, 43.33. Avg: 52.12
B-29s vs. Warships: 75.00, 61.11, 77.91, 66.67, 50.00. Avg: 66.14
B-29s w/50 EXP vs. Merchants: 31.33, 53.66, 72.00, 81.18, 61.71. Avg: 60.57
B-29s w/50 EXP vs. Warships: 71.79, 54.65, 45.57, 60.26, 55.29. Avg: 57.51
B-17Es vs. Merchants: 100.00, 66.67, 107.61, 69.57, 61.37. Avg: 81.64
B-17Es vs. Warships: 33.33, 46.15, 46.59, 42.22, 30.12. Avg: 39.68
B-25Cs vs. Merchants: 60.42, 113.04, 55.43, 96.84, 72.83. Avg: 79.71
B-25Cs vs. Warships: 57.29, 57.30, 57.78, 47.31, 56.52. Avg: 55.24
B-29s @30K vs. Merchants: 10.00, 7.59, 8.05, 11.24, 13.95. Avg: 10.17
B-29s @30K vs. Warships: 14.12, 6.82, 24.14, 3.66, 6.85. Avg: 11.12
B-29s vs. Merchants w/AAA: 87.36, 94.51, 51.22, 60.71, 77.78. Avg: 74.31
B-17Es vs. Merchants w/AAA: 103.45, 63.74, 49.44, 97.80, 69.89. Avg: 76.86
B-25Cs vs. Merchants w/AAA: 31.91, 44.68, 44.09, 34.04, 78.72. Avg: 46.69
B-29s vs. No ships in port: 28.09, 22.50, 33.33, 16.67, 27.59. Avg: 25.64

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

(in reply to dtravel)

Post #: 169

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/23/2004 3:09:28 AM

2ndACR

Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline

Thanks Leo,

You have confirmed what I suspected. Does not matter if you have AAA in a base or not, it will not effect the accuracy at all of the raid.

Also, if you are the Japanese, you can not stop any Allied heavy bomber raid from plastering it's target.

Time for me to prepere my bid for all those German FW190's and their AA crews and guns.

(in reply to dtravel)

Post #: 170

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/23/2004 3:49:44 AM

dtravel

Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Thanks Leo,

You have confirmed what I suspected. Does not matter if you have AAA in a base or not, it will not effect the accuracy at all of the raid.

Also, if you are the Japanese, you can not stop any Allied heavy bomber raid from plastering it's target.

Time for me to prepere my bid for all those German FW190's and their AA crews and guns.

Leo? <looks around> Who's Leo?

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

(in reply to 2ndACR)

Post #: 171

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/23/2004 3:53:13 AM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Thanks Leo,

You have confirmed what I suspected. Does not matter if you have AAA in a base or not, it will not effect the accuracy at all of the raid.

Also, if you are the Japanese, you can not stop any Allied heavy bomber raid from plastering it's target.

Time for me to prepere my bid for all those German FW190's and their AA crews and guns.

Leo? <looks around> Who's Leo?

Apollo

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to dtravel)

Post #: 172

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/23/2004 3:54:53 AM

dtravel

Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

Leo? <looks around> Who's Leo?

Apollo

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)

Post #: 173

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/23/2004 4:08:50 AM

BoerWar

Posts: 506
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Arlington, VA
Status: offline

Another interesting item I note from Apollo's runs are that these bombers are able to go every day. This did not happen in reality, it took days and even weeks between raids to plan and refit major bombing formations. Look at Derek's data. The minimum turn around is 3 days. As others in this thread have noted the heavy bombers in the game should be experiencing more fatigue and or morale loss as a way to simulate an extended planning period.

(in reply to dtravel)

Post #: 174

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/23/2004 4:39:55 AM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoerWar

Another interesting item I note from Apollo's runs are that these bombers are able to go every day. This did not happen in reality, it took days and even weeks between raids to plan and refit major bombing formations. Look at Derek's data. The minimum turn around is 3 days. As others in this thread have noted the heavy bombers in the game should be experiencing more fatigue and or morale loss as a way to simulate an extended planning period.

I'd say undamaged aircraft could use a roll upon mission completion to see if they become "damaged" after each mission to simulate all manner of ops readiness issues which plagued aircraft (landing accidents, powerplant problems, airframe/rigger issues etc).

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to BoerWar)

Post #: 175

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/23/2004 4:57:03 AM

BoerWar

Posts: 506
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Arlington, VA
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoerWar

Another interesting item I note from Apollo's runs are that these bombers are able to go every day. This did not happen in reality, it took days and even weeks between raids to plan and refit major bombing formations. Look at Derek's data. The minimum turn around is 3 days. As others in this thread have noted the heavy bombers in the game should be experiencing more fatigue and or morale loss as a way to simulate an extended planning period.

I'd say undamaged aircraft could use a roll upon mission completion to see if they become "damaged" after each mission to simulate all manner of ops readiness issues which plagued aircraft (landing accidents, powerplant problems, airframe/rigger issues etc).

Sounds reasonable. 4 engines means 4 times the possibility for maintenance problems.

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)

Post #: 176

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/23/2004 6:10:47 AM

Knavey

Posts: 3052
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Valrico, Florida
Status: offline

Ah,

But although this is showing the B-29s are having problems with accuracy against city targets, I submit that you do not have to be particularly accurate with the B-29 that is carrying the atomic bombs!

Just a bit of humor...and now back to your regularly scheduled bombing.

_____________________________

x-Nuc twidget
CVN-71
USN 87-93
"Going slow in the fast direction"

(in reply to BoerWar)

Post #: 177

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/23/2004 6:20:17 AM

dtravel

Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoerWar

Another interesting item I note from Apollo's runs are that these bombers are able to go every day. This did not happen in reality, it took days and even weeks between raids to plan and refit major bombing formations. Look at Derek's data. The minimum turn around is 3 days. As others in this thread have noted the heavy bombers in the game should be experiencing more fatigue and or morale loss as a way to simulate an extended planning period.

Look again. He ran the same day over and over. All of the Combat Reports are for 06/01/44.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

(in reply to BoerWar)

Post #: 178

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/23/2004 7:29:43 AM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline

quote:

Look again. He ran the same day over and over. All of the Combat Reports are for 06/01/44.

Naw, it's because all the ships were sunk after the first day

(in reply to dtravel)

Post #: 179

RE: Comprehensive Port bombing testing (98 B-29's vs. 5... - 12/23/2004 2:13:49 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoerWar

Another interesting item I note from Apollo's runs are that these bombers are able to go every day. This did not happen in reality, it took days and even weeks between raids to plan and refit major bombing formations. Look at Derek's data. The minimum turn around is 3 days. As others in this thread have noted the heavy bombers in the game should be experiencing more fatigue and or morale loss as a way to simulate an extended planning period.

I run my TEST scenario every time anew (i.e. for 5 + 1 times I loaded and played my scenario for each test).

Perhaps even better way would be to completely exit from WitP in between each loading of scenario but it was too much hussle...

Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to BoerWar)

Post #: 180