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Ranks & Experience - 6/18/2000 10:37:00 PM   
Moonwolf

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 6/6/2000
Status: offline 		Is there any way to choose Leaders' Ranks (& experience, for that matter) during unit purchase? If not, wouldn't that be a very nice feature to add to the game? I know you can change all of the particulars when building a scenario, but my question concerns changing experience & ranks during purchase in a game against an opponent (real or AI). I know that more experience, higher ranks should cost more -- that is expected. That there should be a very high price for elite troops is also expected (and a conversely very low price for green troops), but the ability to choose would further extend your choices as to game strategies. Any thoughts on this? ------------------ | Moonwolf | ----------------

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Ed Mortimer Meglio un Giorno da Leone
Post #: 1
- 6/18/2000 11:42:00 PM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		It's innovative, and would be interesting to include. I think we'll add that to our "dream game" list. No, currently in unit purchase you are not able to choose rank. Nice idea, though...Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to Moonwolf)
Post #: 2
- 6/19/2000 3:58:00 AM   
victorhauser

 

Posts: 318
Joined: 5/29/2000
From: austin, texas
Status: offline 		Rank Has Its Privileges... However, one of the reasons I prefer to play campaigns rather than battles or scenarios is exactly the desire to see my commanders gain combat effectiveness over time. It is very gratifying to start a campaign with "average" troops and then, through hard-fought battles, end the campaign with a sizable cadre of elite combat veterans. So, in a sense, the SP series already offers you the ability to do what you're asking. On a more historical note, I tend to disagree with the concept of "paying more points" to get higher-ranking commanders. The historical experience was actually just the opposite. Almost never did you see a higher-ranking commander leading a formation of troops smaller than what his rank called for--usually (i.e., almost always) units were "underled" because as soon as a commander showed exceptional talent, he was promoted and put in command of a larger unit commensurate with his rank. So instead of captains leading platoons, you have the more historical situation where captains are leading battalions. Also, from a gaming perspective, I'm not very much in favor of being able to "buy" rank. To me, it smacks of trying to circumvent the Command and Control rules since higher-ranking leaders receive more Command Points.

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VAH

(in reply to Moonwolf)
Post #: 3
- 6/19/2000 7:38:00 PM   
Moonwolf

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 6/6/2000
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by victorhauser: Rank Has Its Privileges... However, one of the reasons I prefer to play campaigns rather than battles or scenarios is exactly the desire to see my commanders gain combat effectiveness over time. It is very gratifying to start a campaign with "average" troops and then, through hard-fought battles, end the campaign with a sizable cadre of elite combat veterans. Also, from a gaming perspective, I'm not very much in favor of being able to "buy" rank. To me, it smacks of trying to circumvent the Command and Control rules since higher-ranking leaders receive more Command Points.
Be that as it may, some people prefer PBEM because of the challenge of a human opponent -- therefore they have no way to adjust rank -- or experience, which is much more important. Neither do they have a way to buy cheap units to exchange for expensive, elite units later -- which seems to be a common, unrealistic cheat used in campaigns (so let's leave that stuff out, and concentrate on the problem). My objective is not to circumvent realistic situations, but to be able to create them. Not every situation fits neatly into a pre-set mold. ------------------ | Moonwolf | ----------------

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Ed Mortimer Meglio un Giorno da Leone

(in reply to Moonwolf)
Post #: 4
- 6/20/2000 12:51:00 AM   
victorhauser

 

Posts: 318
Joined: 5/29/2000
From: austin, texas
Status: offline 		If players were given a button allowing them access to the Preferences while in the Buy Units screen, then that would allow players to change the troop quality of their units as they were buying them. This could also answer the "rank" question as well since by setting the troop quality higher (and paying more), you get a better leader (well all except rally ratings which are not rank-dependent). Regarding your comment regarding abuses/cheats during campaigns, I've posted several dissenting opinions in these forums pertaining to upgrading/changing core units to "out-of-type". I oppose the idea because I'm very aware of the abuses you alluded to. However, I'm not at all certain that playing against a human opponent is necessarily more challenging than playing against the AI. I do believe that the two formats are very different, requiring different ways of thinking and different tactics to succeed. But just as AI settings can be made easier or more difficult, so too are there "easy" and "difficult" human opponents. (In fact, if you play against the same person often enough, then certain "predictable" tendencies become apparent.) You say po-TAH-to and I say po-TAY-to. There are abuses/cheats in either format. One is not necessarily better or more challenging than the other. They are different. I do enjoy both, though. I just prefer campaigns. But maybe adding a Preferences button to the Buy Units screen would add a new flavor to both "vs. human" and "vs. AI" games.

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VAH

(in reply to Moonwolf)
Post #: 5
- 6/20/2000 4:13:00 AM   
Moonwolf

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 6/6/2000
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by victorhauser: Regarding your comment regarding abuses/cheats during campaigns, I've posted several dissenting opinions in these forums pertaining to upgrading/changing core units to "out-of-type". I oppose the idea because I'm very aware of the abuses you alluded to.
Sorry, I was just tired. No offense meant. There are cheaters, no question. But the ability to manipulate the game is a bonus regardless of the fact that some people may use a feature to "cheat." If they cheat themselves, they lose. if they cheat someone else, they will also lose sooner or later. I'm interested in more power to manipulate the game not because I want to cheat, but because I want to be able to model more diverse situations easier. WWII has a wealth of unique situations that would make great scenarios. Unfortunately, many of the features that might be used have to be accessed through the editor -- thereby prohibiting use when playing normally. Being able to access these features from everywhere would be a great boon. BTW, the Greeks fielded an all-officer company in North Africa. That's an example of how being able to manipulate ranks would enable you to re-create a historical situation that you are not otherwise able to game unless you edit a scenario -- and then all the fun is gone because you know everything that will happen. ------------------ | Moonwolf | ----------------

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Ed Mortimer Meglio un Giorno da Leone

(in reply to Moonwolf)
Post #: 6
- 6/20/2000 5:54:00 AM   
Kluckenbill

 

Posts: 278
Joined: 6/7/2000
From: Lancaster, PA, USA
Status: offline 		I like the idea of being able to manipulate ranks and experience in PBEM battles. I think it would add a lot to the 'fog of war' if your E-Mail opponent didn't know whether he's be facing a few elite troops led by veteran officers or a bunch of green troops led by corporals. Even better, a mix of elite for the breakthrough and regulars and greens for cannon fodder.

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Target, Cease Fire !

(in reply to Moonwolf)
Post #: 7
- 6/20/2000 7:10:00 AM   
Moonwolf

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 6/6/2000
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Kluckenbill: I like the idea of being able to manipulate ranks and experience in PBEM battles. I think it would add a lot to the 'fog of war' if your E-Mail opponent didn't know whether he's be facing a few elite troops led by veteran officers or a bunch of green troops led by corporals. Even better, a mix of elite for the breakthrough and regulars and greens for cannon fodder.
That's the spirit! Y'see, it adds another dimension to the game, another layer of strategy for you, another question for your opponent. It makes it all the more versatile . . . and interesting. ------------------ | Moonwolf | ----------------

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Ed Mortimer Meglio un Giorno da Leone

(in reply to Moonwolf)
Post #: 8
- 6/20/2000 7:42:00 PM   
Panther

 

Posts: 201
Joined: 4/19/2000
From: Dover,NH,USA
Status: offline 		I am not sure. Do units get experience on the fly or do you have to wait until the end of the battle for the experience to be added on?

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(in reply to Moonwolf)
Post #: 9
- 6/20/2000 7:50:00 PM   
victorhauser

 

Posts: 318
Joined: 5/29/2000
From: austin, texas
Status: offline 		Experience calculations are performed at the end of each battle to determine whether and/or how much each unit gains.

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VAH

(in reply to Moonwolf)
Post #: 10
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