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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Mines

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Mines - 1/6/2005 5:12:38 AM

Blitzer

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Joined: 7/3/2002
From: Chicago
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OK having explored general strategic approaches on both sides, why not look at some more specific tactics.

In this case I'd be interested in hearing about how players use mines in both offensive and defensive aspects.

Some players eschew them completely, while others institute house rules limiting mining to established bases with flags only. Still others dump mines everywhere. Each type of play carries its own challenges.

What are your priorities in mining the South Pacific and why?

Post #: 1

RE: Mines - 1/6/2005 5:58:00 AM

Nomad

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Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
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My preference is to use mines as a defensive tool. I mostly put them in my 'flag' bases for security.

(in reply to Blitzer)

Post #: 2

RE: Mines - 1/6/2005 3:37:56 PM

Nordic Twilight

Posts: 38
Joined: 9/27/2004
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Thats how I use them too.

I do use subs 'occasionally' to lay mines offensively, but as you can't 'defend' the minefields properly, I usually stick to defensely mining important bases.

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RE: Mines - 1/7/2005 4:49:49 AM

Dragonlead

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Joined: 5/16/2004
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I have not played against a human opponent. But mines can be an effective deterrent beyond harbor-side.

Example. In Scenario 16, I had Guadalcanal (US side) and was building it up as a major airfield, but the IJN kept sending down 2 BB+ TFs to blow merry hell out of my base. Since my carriers were recuperating, I decided to place a minefield right at the throat of The Slot, close to Shortland Island. They went in at night, laid down the field and left. No air opposition from Shortland. Refueled at Tulagi and went home. 2 "days" later, the same IJN TF hits this minefield resulting in one sunk destroyer and the Hiei badly damaged. TF turns around and goes home. I haven't been molested by a TF at G-canal since.

I also use them in an offensively defensive way. If I detect a build-up at a base I won't be able to invade for some time, I put a minefield at the location. I've sunk a lot of IJN transports that way.

Just my 2 cents.

V/R

_____________________________

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(in reply to Blitzer)

Post #: 4

RE: Mines - 1/7/2005 7:23:09 AM

Blitzer

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Joined: 7/3/2002
From: Chicago
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Good play Dragonlead. Sowing mines at friendly bases will almost always disrupt enemy bombardment missions, unless they are composed exclusively of BBs and CAs. Ships of lesser tonnage will certainly sustain damage. The mines' real effect issues from their placement at non-flag bases which are either coastal or shallow. Unlike WitP, these minefields do not degrade at any appreciable rate and are therefore fairly permanent.

Having heard others' views I'm bound to say that as the Japanese I plant these suckers everywhere. Very heavy belts around Milne Bay, Huon Gulf, and many more in the Solomons, in addition to established bases elsewhere. My first priority is to mine the lower Solomons in order to discourage unwelcomed intrusions while the area is built up. In pbem mode the Allies will eventually be able bring up sufficient MSWs, but if the mines are thick enough they will take casualties nonetheless. Supported by subs and LBA, Japanese minefields can wreck dreadful damage on Allied transports and landing forces.

There are more than a few uv players who advocate more restrictive mine rules and I've played with these too.

Any of you fellows care to chime in?

(in reply to Dragonlead)

Post #: 5

RE: Mines - 1/7/2005 11:43:13 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
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I never restrict them in my games. (House rules just tend to end friendships). Both players need them at various stages of the campaigns.

The Allies need them to provide help from Japanese bombardment missions and early invasions.

The Japanese must have them if they are playing for an end game. Each base and shallow approaches must be mined-to delay and attrit the Allies as they grind north. Since the game has been patched there is no reason to limit them. They are fun and any competent player can learn to deal with them. I only wish subs could hit them when operating in restricted waters. That was one of thier primary uses, to keep subs away from ports.

Hint, one of the most valuable Allied ships is the DMS. Don't risk them on secondary missions. They have a distinct advantage over slow MSW ships as they can escort surface raiding forces. Try to have 3 or 4 of them in theater.

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RE: Mines - 1/8/2005 7:38:18 PM

spence

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From: Vancouver, Washington
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If you're the US and your opp likes to put into Kavieng with the KB for fuel/aircrew rest send a fleet boat or two every so often to lay some mines amongst those islands SE of Kavieng/East of New Ireland to NE entrance of the Solomon Sea. In various PBEMs I've dinged up a couple of CV/CVLs and some of their escorts with modest minefields laid amonst these islands. Besides the fleet boats hit absolutely nothing with their torpedos so what else is there to do besides lay minefields with them?

(in reply to Blitzer)

Post #: 7

RE: Mines - 1/10/2005 12:54:16 AM

Tuli Vapaa

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I use sub layed minefields as part of my submarine warfare. Laying mines to suspected convoy lines, especially shallow/coastal hexes, forces supply convoys to change route after mines are detected. That way convoy routes can be limited to certain hexes and subs can be sent to hunt in these areas.

Works well near Kavieng, when hunting Truk-Rabaul traffic and near Noumea with Noumea-Luganville route in mind. Also you can mine route inside Great Barrier reef to force Brisbane-Townsville convoys to open sea.

(in reply to spence)

Post #: 8

RE: Mines - 1/10/2005 1:20:05 AM

Miller

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From: Ashington, England.
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On the subject of mines, do you have to send Jap ML's back to the main base (Truk) for reloads? They will not reload at Shortlands or Rabaul...

(in reply to Tuli Vapaa)

Post #: 9

RE: Mines - 1/10/2005 5:57:38 AM

Nordic Twilight

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Joined: 9/27/2004
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Yep, its a real pain even when Rabaul is at 9, you still have to trawl all the way back to Truk to reload mines......Boo!!

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RE: Mines - 1/11/2005 8:37:56 AM

Blitzer

Posts: 99
Joined: 7/3/2002
From: Chicago
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Agreed.

A large part of the problem is that the Allies are far undergunned in mine-laying ops. In contrast the Japanese can sow extremely heavy fields within the first two-three months and beyond. Even though Allied mines are generally more effective than their opponents', the sheer quantity of Jap mines more than makes up for the discrepancy in ordnance.

Another big failing, as crsutton mentioned, is the invulnerability of submarines to minefields. This is a game shortcoming not likely to be fixed so we'll all have to deal with it.

It certainly pays to lay these floating bombs across suspected convoy routes, but once discovered they can be easily cleared, especially in rear areas.

On the other hand, as I brought up before, conducting a concentrated offensive against enemy MSWs can produce dramatic results, even though DDs possess limited minesweeping capabilities.

(in reply to Nordic Twilight)

Post #: 11