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Mega Campaign Ideas - 1/10/2005 4:16:39 AM

KG Erwin

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Disclaimer: these are ideas and suggestions. There is at present NO intention for Matrix to offer any more official support for SPWaW.

Other than my favorite Marines, there are other possibilities: as the Russians, from the 1942 campaign; as the Brits, from the Desert War, as the Germans, specificially following the history of the Grossdeutschland Regiment/Division; user alternatives.

Let's get some input, guys.

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RE: Mega Campaign Ideas - 1/10/2005 7:53:47 AM

hexedgamer2

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dumb idea, gunny

. Mega campaigns are no more. give it up.
Matrix said no more, and they own the engine.
that's it.
period.
stop torturing people.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 2

RE: Mega Campaign Ideas - 1/10/2005 8:01:18 AM

pepek

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little bit brainstorming is never a bad idea and it has not to be an offical mega from matrix, it could be a privat publication.

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Post #: 3

RE: Mega Campaign Ideas - 1/10/2005 6:10:15 PM

KG Erwin

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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hexedgamer2

dumb idea, gunny. Mega campaigns are no more. give it up.
Matrix said no more, and they own the engine.
that's it.
period.
stop torturing people.

Les, look at the comments from WB is his birthday thread. He's looking for some scenario ideas, so I'm just taking it a step further. There's no harm in that.

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Post #: 4

still bad idea - 1/11/2005 12:24:56 AM

hexedgamer2

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pepek---engine is either partially or wholly owned by matrix. i heard rumors that several people offered to buy it from them but no deal. a megacampaign as such cannot be created without matrix support. matrix has no interest nor will pass on the engine for reasons never stated.

kg---see, you fooled pepek. taking it a step further is torturing people. the issue is dead. no more mc ever. spwaw as far as matrix is concerned is done, see david's post on this last summer. end of story. wait for combat leader or else scenarios loosely linked like Das Reich or Munda. Which is a shame....great scenario designers like Jess deserve a chance at the MC. If Matrix isn't doing anymore they should hand off to Jess, the Depot, or someone who will. I prefer depot because they have the talent and they would have guys who know how to modify the code.

Instead it is dead issue. which is why you are annoying me by torturing us with "what if's". We went thrugh all that last year with the different possibilities. It is over. thus I am another hexed gamer disillusioned with how SP has gone since 101st Airborne MC finished--all that energy and talent and Wild Bill's legacy wasted.

< Message edited by hexedgamer2 -- 1/10/2005 10:28:08 PM >

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 5

clarify - 1/11/2005 12:29:51 AM

hexedgamer2

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I should clarify that i am disillusioned with matrix wasting the groups that wild bill brought together. nice to see the depot picked up the slack and is doing great things with obs and scenario designs but an MC is an MC and alas they are not allowed.

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Post #: 6

RE: clarify - 1/11/2005 4:28:05 AM

KG Erwin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hexedgamer2

I should clarify that i am disillusioned with matrix wasting the groups that wild bill brought together. nice to see the depot picked up the slack and is doing great things with obs and scenario designs but an MC is an MC and alas they are not allowed.

Les, I have a lot to say regarding all that, but it isn't for public display. Ok--that's enough of that. Let's move on to another topic.

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Post #: 7

RE: clarify - 1/11/2005 7:54:36 PM

Danny Boy

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From: Dorset, England
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Guys,

As far as I can see, all you are arguing about is the term 'Megacampaign'

If I put a lot of hard effort into producing a large set of linked scenarios (ie, a long campaign) and then publish it to a board for download...then what's the problem? I may not use the term 'Megacampaign' if there's a trademark issue, but other than that...what's the difference?

Frankly, I think it's pretty cool to discuss anything SP related regardless of merit or possibility. It's only through these sort of open discussions within the community that anything ever happened beyond SP3 in the first place.

Time to lighten up a bit, put the starched collars of the puritans away in the closet, have a beer, kick back and think of anything that could be of interest either now or in the future.

I for one, would be interested to hear of any home grown 'long campaigns' that anyone had taken the trouble to work on. I think most others would too.

Cheers!

< Message edited by Danny Boy -- 1/11/2005 6:02:17 PM >

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Post #: 8

RE: clarify - 1/11/2005 11:42:03 PM

IBTyrone

Posts: 432
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From: Kentucky, USA
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Hi Danny Boy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Danny Boy

As far as I can see, all you are arguing about is the term 'Megacampaign'

If I put a lot of hard effort into producing a large set of linked scenarios (ie, a long campaign) and then publish it to a board for download...then what's the problem? I may not use the term 'Megacampaign' if there's a trademark issue, but other than that...what's the difference?

From what I understand MegaCampaigns are more involved (I've never been involved on the design side). You can include more functionality in regards to background information (articles, pictures, etc.). In addition, MCs usually have many many more scenarios than your average user-generated campaign.

The limitation of fewer scenarios in user-generated campaigns can usually be addressed by working together as a team to deliver the product instead as individuals. You've seen that with the creation of the 'Das Reich' campaign. The thing that sets 'Das Reich' apart was that it was created by a large team without Matrix sponsorship. Projects like 'Das Reich' are probably the closest thing we'll ever see to a MC again, unfortunately.

quote:

Frankly, I think it's pretty cool to discuss anything SP related regardless of merit or possibility. It's only through these sort of open discussions within the community that anything ever happened beyond SP3 in the first place.

Agreed. Community is what keeps this software going. Matrix has decided they are done with it, which makes sense given that they need to make a profit to survive.

quote:

Time to lighten up a bit, put the starched collars of the puritans away in the closet, have a beer, kick back and think of anything that could be of interest either now or in the future.

I'm with you, Danny Boy. I'm a relative noob to the forums as well and have missed out on a lot of the fireworks going on behind the scenes which is not necessarily a bad thing. It's unfortunate that there still are hard feelings out there when everyone is essentially after the same thing--enjoyment of one of our favorite games. I wish it was as simple as a sincere 'sorry' to fix, but from what I've been able to gather, I guess it is not.

I'll kick back and have a cold one with you, Danny Boy.

quote:

I for one, would be interested to hear of any home grown 'long campaigns' that anyone had taken the trouble to work on. I think most others would too.

Most of the long user-generated that I am aware of are already included in the core package. WB's from Utah to the Rhine is a personal favorite of mine. Another long campaign that is well known and isn't included in the core package is Russian Steel. There are many other lesser known user-generated campaigns out there such as FlashfyreSP's 'Raiders of the Sahara' campaign if you are interested in something other than the typical tank dominant battle. Do a search on the forums here, over at spwaw.com and at wargamer and you should find a lot. dlasov is compiling a complete list which should be available soon.

Hope this helps.

(in reply to Danny Boy)

Post #: 9

RE: Mega Campaign Ideas - 1/11/2005 11:50:16 PM

M4Jess

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Dont forget Das Reich guys! Over 40 scenarios it that baby!

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Post #: 10

RE: Mega Campaign Ideas - 1/12/2005 12:05:43 AM

IBTyrone

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quote:

ORIGINAL: M4Jess

Dont forget Das Reich guys! Over 40 scenarios it that baby!

I wasn't Jess.

It is a fantastic project. I'm glad you were willing to lead it. I appreciate you continuing to deliver great stuff for SPWAW. Now if I only had more time to play all the stuff you create! I can't keep up!

(in reply to M4Jess)

Post #: 11

RE: Mega Campaign Ideas - 1/12/2005 2:33:58 AM

KG Erwin

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Guys, the spirit of the MCs is indeed being keep alive with the Depot, who have many former MC designers in their ranks.

Th game is alive and well, thanks to community members who realize that "this thing is bigger than all of us, baby ".

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Post #: 12

jess - 1/12/2005 3:13:53 AM

hexedgamer2

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questions for jess:
1. would a modified MC engine been useful to you for the das reich campaign
2. would you like to see that engine released to the public domain
3. would you work on or want to see another MC?
And BIG BIG THANK YOU. You ahve really done a fine job of stepping into WB's huge shoes to become THE top designer and inspiring so many others to design. Thank you!!!!

(same goes to Bernie and the Depot)

Tyrone and Dannyboy: not trying to stir up trouble, just trying to get MC engine released to designers/DEPOT if they want it, because another MC would be fantastic. Matrix won't do any more and every one agrees they need to move on, fine. But why not let others who want to add to game be allowed to do so?

gunny: not les. And please share your opinions on allowing talent to go to Depot. Look at posts in last 9 months and compare to the same 9 months a year ago. big diff.

Matrix...you should not have allowed official support for SPWAW to die before you had a working CL or another next generation SP game out there.

Please note, no messages meant to disparage Matrix as they have done a fantastic job for the community in the last 5 years...just trying to give a shot in the arm as far as SP goes, because I am sad to see it die off before anything is ready to take its place.

(in reply to M4Jess)

Post #: 13

RE: jess - 1/12/2005 3:42:20 AM

KG Erwin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hexedgamer2

gunny: not les. And please share your opinions on allowing talent to go to Depot. Look at posts in last 9 months and compare to the same 9 months a year ago. big diff.

.

Yes, hexed gamer, things do change. I was wrong about some past issues, but I can't change what's happened. Rather than dwell on old unhappy events, I choose to support the work of my former comrades, because that's the only way further development of the legacy can continue. Holding grudges accomplishes nothing--we must look to the future.

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RE: hexedgamer2 - 1/12/2005 3:50:31 AM

IBTyrone

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From: Kentucky, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hexedgamer2
Tyrone and Dannyboy: not trying to stir up trouble, just trying to get MC engine released to designers/DEPOT if they want it, because another MC would be fantastic. Matrix won't do any more and every one agrees they need to move on, fine. But why not let others who want to add to game be allowed to do so?

Matrix...you should not have allowed official support for SPWAW to die before you had a working CL or another next generation SP game out there. Please note, no messages meant to disparage Matrix as they have done a fantastic job for the community in the last 5 years...just trying to give a shot in the arm as far as SP goes, because I am sad to see it die off before anything is ready to take its place.

As you pointed out, Matrix is caught between a rock and a hard place, methinks. They can't continue to focus on development of SPWAW because the code base is old and gaming technology has moved on. Yet they don't have anything to replace it and they are still generating some revenue via the MCs. So...until revenue has completely dried up or they go out of business and decide to release the code out of kindness, I don't see any source release in our future anytime soon. Additionally, the murkey copyright on the source code doesn't help matters.

However, I don't think SPWAW will be dying off anytime soon. To say it is now is premature. I only came to play the game in the past year (and bought the General's Edition!) so they are still picking up new converts.

Too many people are still playing and enjoying the game and the community lives on. It may not be up to what it was in it's heyday, but it is still there. In the meantime, Danny Boy and I will be kicking back and having a few cold ones enjoying our favorite game.

(in reply to hexedgamer2)

Post #: 15

RE: Mega Campaign Ideas - 1/12/2005 4:59:49 AM

Orzel Bialy

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Gentlemen,

I, personally, believe there is nothing wrong with asking "what if?" or "what woul you like to see?" questions. It has been those types of questions that have helped give birth to very worth-while projects like "Raiders of the Sahara", "Red Steel" and "Das Reich".

As for the whole SPWAW program / MegaCampaign code issue, well that is something I think is better left alone as it's a far more complex matter than most may be aware of. As a member of the DEPOT Design Team I will say it would have be nice to have had the ability to use the MC program to dress up Das Reich and our future campaigns a bit more...but then again, we never gave it much thought once we got started. After all...one should not spend time fretting over things one can not control...so we didn't.

Anyway, I say keep on asking those questions...because there is a good chance that if enough people ask the same question then there may be others out there willing to do something about it!

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Post #: 16

RE: hexedgamer2 - 1/12/2005 5:08:00 AM

KG Erwin

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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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IB Tyrone, this is exactly why I'm hanging on, months after resigning as the moderator, just to give some advice to newcomers and revel in the fun I'm still having with this game after almost five years.

Here's the thing--Matrix is still trying to come to terms with this monster they unleashed (for free) upon the gaming world. I can say this now--they are still competing with it, and the game refuses to die. I love it, but I understand the frustration with it. The engine IS flawed, but with fewer bugs than many new off-the-shelf games in the 21st century.

The game is just a masterpiece, despite its shortcomings, and its flexibility is what makes all this possible. You can recreate ANY ground battle from that era, and even stretch the time-frame forward to the 1950s or back to the 1920s--this has already been done.

I'll be hanging out for a long time to come, so Tyrone, Nomad, and you others, get used to this 40-something rock n roller roaming around the neighborhood.

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Post #: 17

RE: Mega Campaign Ideas - 1/12/2005 5:20:37 AM

KG Erwin

Posts: 8981
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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orzel Bialy

Gentlemen,

I, personally, believe there is nothing wrong with asking "what if?" or "what woul you like to see?" questions. It has been those types of questions that have helped give birth to very worth-while projects like "Raiders of the Sahara", "Red Steel" and "Das Reich".

As for the whole SPWAW program / MegaCampaign code issue, well that is something I think is better left alone as it's a far more complex matter than most may be aware of. As a member of the DEPOT Design Team I will say it would have be nice to have had the ability to use the MC program to dress up Das Reich and our future campaigns a bit more...but then again, we never gave it much thought once we got started. After all...one should not spend time fretting over things one can not control...so we didn't.

Anyway, I say keep on asking those questions...because there is a good chance that if enough people ask the same question then there may be others out there willing to do something about it!

Orzel, I'll do what I can to make this a happy ending, but it ain't gonna be easy.

BTW, I commiserate with you on the Packers' loss.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 1/11/2005 10:22:08 PM >

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Post #: 18

RE: Mega Campaign Ideas - 1/12/2005 4:26:24 PM

M4Jess

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Joined: 1/17/2002
From: DC
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quote:

questions for jess:

quote:

1. would a modified MC engine been useful to you for the das reich campaign

Yes it would, But can we use it?

quote:

2. would you like to see that engine released to the public domain

Yes I would, if MG lets it go Public, many designers (not just the Depot team) would be able to design MCs.

quote:

3. would you work on or want to see another MC?

Yes! I really would love to see a Stalingrad MC.

quote:

And BIG BIG THANK YOU. You have really done a fine job of stepping into WB's huge shoes to become THE top designer and inspiring so many others to design. Thank you!!!!
(same goes to Bernie and the Depot)

Thanks! From the entire Depot team!

quote:

stepping into WB's huge shoes

Not sure about all that! Thats a hugh pair to fill! But thanks!

Jess

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Im making war, not trouble~

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 19

RE: Mega Campaign Ideas - 1/15/2005 7:17:50 PM

Wild Bill

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Someting similar to a Mega Campaign could be done, I think, with the powerpoint program in Microsoft Office. I remember one gamer doing that. It will not have as many pics or articles, but something along that line with a SPWAW campaign included could be fabricated.

It would mean a lot of expertise in the software and a LOT of hard work...hundreds of hours from a number of folks to make it happen.

WB

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