Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: Hirohito

Hello All,
I have been thinking a lot about an altervative to the "gamey" first turn if you use the japanese surprise option. Everyone agrees that allowing the japanese fleets to just sail as far as they want to go unmolested isn't "historical". Someone once said to me the house rules were put in place because the japanese did not have invisible, flying boats. Point taken.

So, what could be done to make the first move more like what really would happen, not just in terms of KB sailing out to PH but in other theatres as well.

I think the solution is to start the game on November 25th instead of December 7th. And then have a set of rules to guide what moves each side can make. For the allied player the rules would be:
1. No orders to units in PH.
2. Any orders in China to Chinese forces
3. TFs can sail between any two allied ports and anywhere within allied territorial waters.
4. No TFs can be created beyond the historical ones that existed on Dec 7.
5. Air units outisde of PH and china can be given search and recon orders as long as they don't overfly japanese held territory.
6. If the allied side spots japanese forces enroute to allied targets with definite hostile intent then the allied player can give any orders she wishes.

Rules for the japanese player:
1. Give any orders you want, just know that if the allies spot you they can respond.

How difficult would it be to create a scenario like this? I would think that the campaign game scenario could be modified to start on november 25th with KB leaving port streaming towards PH and all other fleets at their historical positions on november 25th.

Does anyone know the editors well enough to comment on this?

Thanks,
Hirohito

Information about my WitP map, and CHS, can be found on my WitP website

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Some of us old dogs just will not let a bone go to waste.

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ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Hirohito of course. I just did not want to qoute him and forgot to reply to him.

He will know who I am talking to. He tossed down a mighty big guantlet and then slid back under his rock.

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ORIGINAL: witpqs

Actually, from what I saw he was hostile toward others.

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ORIGINAL: mlees

Could be, but I was just trying play devils advocate...

I don't think he was being strong minded just to stir the pot, I assume he feels he's justified in his strategic vision. Some folks have a stronger individualism streak in them, and vigorously defend themselves, even to the point that is beyond reasonable. (IMO) They consider it "I'm just standing up for myself...".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hirohito

Hello All,
I have been thinking a lot about an altervative to the "gamey" first turn if you use the japanese surprise option. Everyone agrees that allowing the japanese fleets to just sail as far as they want to go unmolested isn't "historical". Someone once said to me the house rules were put in place because the japanese did not have invisible, flying boats. Point taken.

So, what could be done to make the first move more like what really would happen, not just in terms of KB sailing out to PH but in other theatres as well.

I think the solution is to start the game on November 25th instead of December 7th. And then have a set of rules to guide what moves each side can make. For the allied player the rules would be:
1. No orders to units in PH.
2. Any orders in China to Chinese forces
3. TFs can sail between any two allied ports and anywhere within allied territorial waters.
4. No TFs can be created beyond the historical ones that existed on Dec 7.
5. Air units outisde of PH and china can be given search and recon orders as long as they don't overfly japanese held territory.
6. If the allied side spots japanese forces enroute to allied targets with definite hostile intent then the allied player can give any orders she wishes.

Rules for the japanese player:
1. Give any orders you want, just know that if the allies spot you they can respond.

How difficult would it be to create a scenario like this? I would think that the campaign game scenario could be modified to start on november 25th with KB leaving port streaming towards PH and all other fleets at their historical positions on november 25th.

Does anyone know the editors well enough to comment on this?

Thanks,
Hirohito

I have had exactly this thought before as well. It would be the best way to start a game IMHO. the Japanese player would have some extra choices to make - the more bold moves they attempt, the more chance that they are spotted by the Allies beforehand, thus losing the element of surprise. With an earlier start date and strict house rules it MIGHT work in PBEM. Not sure though.

The trick is how to decide your point 6. Possibly something along the lines of: If a Japanese TF is spotted X (not sure about the right number) hexes from an Allied base, Allied response is triggered.

When I was originally thinking about this I envisaged a two-stage trigger: When one Japanese TF is spotted too close to an Allied base, then all Allied forces are free to move, but they cannot attack Japanese forces (i.e. war is not declared by the Allies) until either the Japanese attack the Allies, or a second 'trigger' TF is spotted.

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I went to new york and got my computer. Then I got extremely ill.

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I posted strategies that I wanted to discuss the merits of from facts, and the vast majority of the responses were personal attacks and opinion, very few people actually wanted to discuss the strategies. I felt like they would work and spent a lot of time working them out many moves ahead making sure that every unit in the empire was engaged as often as possible, which I think is key to the Empire having any chance of success.

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I'm trying to learn the scenario and database editors. I want to make custom scenarios for the various strategies I have written about. The out of the box setup isn't useful for most of them.

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For example, McArthur did almost nothing to prepare for war when he was being notified that Pearl Harbor was under attack via the undersea telegraph cables that had been lain just for this purpose.

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I would like to be the allied commander in PI with the ability to send individual planes to small, out of the way bases all over the phillipines and the ability to hide the navy in any of the myriad good hiding places, waiting for transports to pass by. I've always wondered if this would have changed the outcome of the PI campaign. Granted, 4 destroyers, a heavy cruiser, a light cruiser, the langley and a handful of pt boats probably couldn't have done much, but if you get a small scale map of the PI you see that small ships can hide in a veritable maze. Who knows what hit and run tactics might have done to the transports?

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The airbases outside of Singapore were undermanned and undersupplied, they didn't have enough troops to defend the coast, but it would have been interesting to see what might have happened if the British had viewed Japanese forces entering Siamese territory as an act of war.

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So, point 6 is complicated by the fact that historically even given obvious hostile intent the allies often did nothing. Perhaps the allied forces could have a random factor on whether they would obey orders or not in the face of anything short of actually being bombed themselves prior to the declaration of war?

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ORIGINAL: Hirohito

Hi,
Then I got extremely ill. It took a long time to recuperate. To be honest, I almost died.

Hirohito

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ORIGINAL: Hirohito

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Actually, from what I saw he was hostile toward others.

Only in response to venemous personal attacks from people who did not have any facts to back up their accusations.

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Why not simply have the game start with the historical forces at sea as they were on Dec 7th? If this is not to your liking, select historical revision and have game start on Dec 1st with Allies inactive like Soviets. As soon as first Allied position or force is attacked, Allies activate. Simple.