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Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 2:10:18 AM   
Brady


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RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 2:12:29 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		US Naval Gun Breach, My guess os 14"/50 Mk 7 as deployed on New Mexico and Tennessee class battleships.

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RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 6:20:33 AM   
mlees


Posts: 2263
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From: San Diego
Status: offline 		Looks like one of the old dryers in the laundromat I use.

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RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 7:58:32 AM   
tsimmonds


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Status: offline 		It's an interrupted screw (I hate it when that happens!).

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RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 8:02:23 AM   
mlees


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From: San Diego
Status: offline 		Yup, but a 14inch cannon is something to be proud of, and show off to all your friends!

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RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 8:05:02 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
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From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		I remember, my grandad showed me a home movie they made on the Mississippi (his tugboat). They took one of those oldstyle movie cameras, put it in the muzzle, and let it slide all the way down to the breach where someone caught it.

He also told me of a time (he just told me last Saturday, in fact) that they saw a bunch of sharks one time, and they harpooned it, and hoisted it up with the stern crane. Said it was 14 feet long! Don't know if its true, but that's what he said.

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RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 3:45:54 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

US Naval Gun Breach, My guess os 14"/50 Mk 7 as deployed on New Mexico and Tennessee class battleships.


Well, this guy has a USN tat on his forearm. Somehow, i get the impression that he is looking at this thing as a specimen though - like he hadn't seen it's like before, although i'm not sure how that squares with the no shirt. Could this be from a captured (i.e. IJN) ship?

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RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 3:52:16 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

US Naval Gun Breach, My guess os 14"/50 Mk 7 as deployed on New Mexico and Tennessee class battleships.


Well, this guy has a USN tat on his forearm. Somehow, i get the impression that he is looking at this thing as a specimen though - like he hadn't seen it's like before, although i'm not sure how that squares with the no shirt. Could this be from a captured (i.e. IJN) ship?



I revise my guess - looking at the size of this thing compared to the guys forearm - the actual breach size does not seem to be much different than the size of his forearm (wrist to elbow) - in fact it looks somewhat smaller.

Measuring the size of my own forearm = c. 1 foot. So, maybe, despite my initial impression, this is smaller than 14". Maybe 8", or possibly 12" (Alaska Class cruiser?)

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RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 8:10:50 PM   
mikemike

 

Posts: 501
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From: a maze of twisty little passages, all different
Status: offline 		I´d guess this is not a British gun. The breech blocks on British guns swung to the side, like an opening door, once they were retracted from the bore. At least they did on the 15-inchers. I guess that would rule out Japanese guns, too. The Japanese 14-inchers were copies of a British (Vickers) design. I´ve seen a breech block that drops like this in that movie where a ship´s cook defeats a gang of terrorists who have captured the Iowa-class battleship he´s serving on. I don´t know the original name of the movie, it was called "Alarmstufe Rot" (Red Alert) in Germany. He fired one of the 16-inchers at the terrorists´ sub, sinking it, of course. The breech of that gun worked just like the one in the photo, IIRC.

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RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 8:30:15 PM   
rkr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikemike

I´d guess this is not a British gun. The breech blocks on British guns swung to the side, like an opening door, once they were retracted from the bore. At least they did on the 15-inchers. I guess that would rule out Japanese guns, too. The Japanese 14-inchers were copies of a British (Vickers) design. I´ve seen a breech block that drops like this in that movie where a ship´s cook defeats a gang of terrorists who have captured the Iowa-class battleship he´s serving on. I don´t know the original name of the movie, it was called "Alarmstufe Rot" (Red Alert) in Germany. He fired one of the 16-inchers at the terrorists´ sub, sinking it, of course. The breech of that gun worked just like the one in the photo, IIRC.


Oh yes, Under siege with Steven Segal. The ship was Iowa and Erika Eleniak presented herself topless. Very nice and the movie was worth watching too...

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Post #: 10
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 8:32:15 PM   
Tankerace


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From: Stillwater, OK, United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

US Naval Gun Breach, My guess os 14"/50 Mk 7 as deployed on New Mexico and Tennessee class battleships.


Well, this guy has a USN tat on his forearm. Somehow, i get the impression that he is looking at this thing as a specimen though - like he hadn't seen it's like before, although i'm not sure how that squares with the no shirt. Could this be from a captured (i.e. IJN) ship?



I revise my guess - looking at the size of this thing compared to the guys forearm - the actual breach size does not seem to be much different than the size of his forearm (wrist to elbow) - in fact it looks somewhat smaller.

Measuring the size of my own forearm = c. 1 foot. So, maybe, despite my initial impression, this is smaller than 14". Maybe 8", or possibly 12" (Alaska Class cruiser?)


Actually, last night as I was thinking about this last night, it may very well be an 8"/55 or 12"/50 gun. But remember, its not the circumference that you measure, its the diameter.

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Post #: 11
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 8:40:08 PM   
mlees


Posts: 2263
Joined: 9/20/2003
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		With a breech block swinging down like that, and intended to be operated manually, it shouldn't be more than 75-90 pounds max. I don't remember. In "Under Siege", was the breech block hydraulic?

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Post #: 12
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 8:42:51 PM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
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From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		It was, but that was a 16" gun.... Its been 5 years since I have seen a 14" gun breach (USS Texas).

So, we'll say this.

Its larger than 5", but smaller than 16"

So, 6, 8, 12, 14. Those are our gun choices.

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Post #: 13
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 8:53:55 PM   
mlees


Posts: 2263
Joined: 9/20/2003
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		OK. With a manual breech loader like that, I am gonna guess the shell and powder was loaded by hand. (A little bit of an assumption here, but I don't see a loader tray or rammer in frame. They could be on some swing in/swing out set up, but I dunno.)

A 6 inch shell weighs roughly 90 lbs, and was considered the largest calibre (I think) that would be convenient to require manual loading and not tire out the gunners. (This helps keep up a high rate of fire.) An 8inch should have a loading tray or rammer. Then again, that looks a lot bigger than 5 or 6 inches. Sigh. I can't make up my mind.

I agree on the Mrs. Eliniak rating, by the way...




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 14
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 8:56:36 PM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		Well, the loading tray isn't in the picture... After the breach was opened, then it would be lowered. But the guy is in the way.

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Post #: 15
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 8:58:03 PM   
Gudgeon

 

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Status: offline 		I believe most of the interior scenes for Under Siege were filmed on the USS Alabama in Mobile Bay.

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Post #: 16
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 9:01:20 PM   
mlees


Posts: 2263
Joined: 9/20/2003
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		Even so, the Alabama has 16inch guns also. The breech loading equipment for a 16/45 and 16/50, or whatever, should look the same to a neophyte like me...

< Message edited by mlees -- 1/12/2005 11:03:16 AM >

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Post #: 17
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 9:02:50 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees

OK. With a manual breech loader like that, I am gonna guess the shell and powder was loaded by hand. (A little bit of an assumption here, but I don't see a loader tray or rammer in frame. They could be on some swing in/swing out set up, but I dunno.)

A 6 inch shell weighs roughly 90 lbs, and was considered the largest calibre (I think) that would be convenient to require manual loading and not tire out the gunners. (This helps keep up a high rate of fire.) An 8inch should have a loading tray or rammer. Then again, that looks a lot bigger than 5 or 6 inches. Sigh. I can't make up my mind.

I agree on the Mrs. Eliniak rating, by the way...



This thing clearly looks bigger than 6". Any possibility that it is 10" as in a Coastal Defence battery?

My guess is still 8" or 12". If I had to guess, i'd say 12" from Alaska class. Brady already showed us one color picture from the Alaska! Maybe he has more

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 1/12/2005 4:04:06 PM >

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RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 9:03:31 PM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		It could also (if a 12") be from the Arkansas...

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Post #: 19
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 9:04:57 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

It could also (if a 12") be from the Arkansas...



Good thought!

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RE: Name This...(287) - 1/13/2005 4:35:14 AM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

It could also (if a 12") be from the Arkansas...



Good thought!



OK - here is a picture below of the 12" gun from USS Arkansas. Note the side-closing breech block.

If this thing is about 1 cu ft. of steel, it must weigh close to 700 pounds. Too heavy for a manual lift-up type closure, i think.


So - I am guessing Brady is showing us an 8" gun.




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RE: Name This...(287) - 1/13/2005 4:46:29 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		based on that.... I am going to guess 12"/50 from an Alaska...

I still think its to big to be an 8 incher, but who knows...

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Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

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Post #: 22
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/13/2005 5:43:38 AM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

based on that.... I am going to guess 12"/50 from an Alaska...

I still think its to big to be an 8 incher, but who knows...


Possibly - apparently, the more modern US Naval artillery had a drop down top-hinged breech block that was powered - not manual.

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RE: Name This...(287) - 1/13/2005 5:49:51 AM   
pompack


Posts: 2582
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline 		14in/50 Mark 6 (I think)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

US Naval Gun Breach, My guess os 14"/50 Mk 7 as deployed on New Mexico and Tennessee class battleships.



Same gun, same platform, Tankerace and I differ only on what Mark was deployed on Tennesseee

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Post #: 24
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/13/2005 6:06:53 AM   
mbatch729


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From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		Actually, US 16/50 Mark 7, if I were a betting man.

< Message edited by mbatch729 -- 1/12/2005 11:07:21 PM >

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Post #: 25
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/13/2005 6:09:05 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
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Status: offline 		Well, shoot! Last time i used body measurements, the guy was bigger than me. This time, it appears he is also much taller - or has longer limbs.

Below is a picture of a US 16"/50 (40.6 cm) Mark 7 breech.

I am going to make that my guess!

UPDATE: Double rats! While i was posting my picture, mbatch729 beat me - i didn't see his guess until after i posted mine!




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 1/13/2005 1:15:15 AM >

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Post #: 26
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/13/2005 7:41:33 AM   
Brady


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From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		16/50 MK VII, it is

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Post #: 27
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/13/2005 8:35:33 AM   
Cap Mandrake


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Status: offline 		Didn't they wear some kind a protective gear? Were there no embers when they opened the breech after firing? Could be the combustion was total I suppose.

While we're at it, how about some friggin' ear protection?

Also, that gunner needs to get back in line for seconds when they are serving Sh** on a shingle.

< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 1/13/2005 6:37:01 AM >

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RE: Name This...(287) - 1/13/2005 3:39:07 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Didn't they wear some kind a protective gear? Were there no embers when they opened the breech after firing? Could be the combustion was total I suppose.

While we're at it, how about some friggin' ear protection?

Also, that gunner needs to get back in line for seconds when they are serving Sh** on a shingle.


Probably they aren't actually involved in firing the gun right now. If they were, that guy (at least the one in my photo) is going to have a blister down the length of his forearm (in contact with the breech block). They guys in the Arkansas photo don't seem to be wearing anything special, though.

I have read that anti-flash gear was actually not standard in US ships until after the Falklands war and they analyzed what happened there. I have never been able to verify if this is correct, or if it was voluntarily used by some ships or crew members. It was standard on Commonwealth ships back in WW2.

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 1/13/2005 10:42:42 AM >

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RE: Name This...(287) - 1/13/2005 3:39:52 PM   
mbatch729


Posts: 537
Joined: 5/23/2001
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		For those interested, my sig picture is the USS Iowa firing a full broadside. And while I worked in the secondary (5") battery world, I did see the main battery stuff a lot.

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