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RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/11/2005 7:45:08 PM

ravinhood

Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline

quote:

Is this a relevant discussion of substance or people imposing their will of opinion?

It's both of course. Just some only want to hear the "sugar coated" portions of the subject and others want to hear the "negative related facts" of the subject. That's why this is called a "general discussion" forum. So both crowds may speak. Do we not get the same praises to their games every single thread, on every single forum? Must have an equilibrium of the subject matter or it gets one sided and untruthful. ;)

Personally I would never tell anyone "enough already", it's like saying their input is unwarranted and of course "opinionated" by the person stating it. No one here is the leader of the pack so to speak, so it's everyones right to speakup, speakout and declare how they feel about the subject, even if they are wrong and I am right. lol ;)

(in reply to SeaMonkey)

Post #: 151

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/11/2005 10:00:53 PM

ancient doctor

Posts: 152
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

I am not going to start spitting Paradox for what they do(or dont actually

)and are(again)since it is well known by anybody having played strategy games about the subject on what these people do and how

.

I cant help however not to say that i concider this company as tottaly lucking bussiness moral to continiously making buggy games which later will requiere several patches only to reach the point of continuing having some of the "out of the box" problems.If and i say IF they had made an attemp to fix the still exisiting HOI1 heavy problems then i whould thought that they respect me and my money and thus i might have made an attempt to buy from them again.However nothing like that have happened.I will simply say that HoI1 still have some problems it had from day 1.

So what is the meaning of the above?I am not a stupid to purchase half finished games AGAIN and AGAIN,even more in whatever place there is a discussion of strategy games i will make sure everybody understands what this company is about

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 152

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 12:12:11 AM

max_h

Posts: 187
Joined: 10/18/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ancient seaman

I am not going to start spitting Paradox for what they do(or dont actually)and are(again)since it is well known by anybody having played strategy games about the subject on what these people do and how.

I cant help however not to say that i concider this company as tottaly lucking bussiness moral to continiously making buggy games which later will requiere several patches only to reach the point of continuing having some of the "out of the box" problems.If and i say IF they had made an attemp to fix the still exisiting HOI1 heavy problems then i whould thought that they respect me and my money and thus i might have made an attempt to buy from them again.However nothing like that have happened.I will simply say that HoI1 still have some problems it had from day 1.

So what is the meaning of the above?I am not a stupid to purchase half finished games AGAIN and AGAIN,even more in whatever place there is a discussion of strategy games i will make sure everybody understands what this company is about.

check out WitP. HoI2 as of 1.0 is in a better state.

HTTR otoh :)

(in reply to ancient doctor)

Post #: 153

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 1:18:46 AM

SlapBone

Posts: 269
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil
How about a nice game of chess ;)

So do you prefer Chessmaster or are you a hardcore Fritz 8 person :)

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Post #: 154

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 1:30:05 AM

Hortlund

Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ancient seaman

I cant help however not to say that i concider this company as tottaly lucking bussiness moral to continiously making buggy games which later will requiere several patches only to reach the point of continuing having some of the "out of the box" problems.

Your post tells me two things. 1) You have not played HoI2, and 2) English is not your first language.

< Message edited by Panzerjaeger Hortlund -- 1/12/2005 12:31:06 AM >

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Post #: 155

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 1:50:47 AM

ravinhood

Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline

quote:

So what is the meaning of the above?I am not a stupid to purchase half finished games AGAIN and AGAIN,even more in whatever place there is a discussion of strategy games i will make sure everybody understands what this company is about

Good for you Ancient seaman, I applaud your decision. We need more like you to make changes in the way games are published these days. Pass the word around and keep the army growing. ;)

(in reply to ancient doctor)

Post #: 156

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 3:27:19 AM

ASHBERY76

Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline

Yeah good for seaman, i just played HOI2 for 10 hours non-stop.I'm very happy with it,

so it's your loss.

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 157

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 3:39:57 AM

SemperAugustus

Posts: 257
Joined: 1/9/2005
Status: offline

quote:

If HoI2 did improve the graphichs, I am sure many would be more positive to the idea of HoI2 being an new game. Its really difficult to make that distinction based on screenshots or a limited Demo.

More and better sprites would be nice I agree

(in reply to Error in 0)

Post #: 158

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 4:14:20 AM

McNaughton

Posts: 113
Joined: 4/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

JallaTryne

Laugh all you want, but bashing me is immature at best. If you buy a new game with old graphic, does this not lend hand to the feeling this is not a new game? I certainly believe so, and if you ask the marked out there, Im sure they feel this too. I also point out there is many changes to the game that is more important than a change of the graphics would be, but you obviously did not read that. If HoI2 did improve the graphichs, I am sure many would be more positive to the idea of HoI2 being an new game. Its really difficult to make that distinction based on screenshots or a limited Demo.

Thank you very much for your valuable input.

JT

Sorry, but I just attributed all of the complaints you had about Paradox games upon Matrix games themselves. I personally don't see this as a problem, or a situation, but, if you are going to nail Paradox for this 'problem', you should nail Matrix games for exactly the same thing. As far as I know graphics weren't improved from UV to WitP. Does it look like a new game? No, (internally it is), but what's wrong about that? Games are constantly full of expansions, and second versions (doom 1 and doom 2 weren't significantly different, eh?). Virtually every segment of the game has been rehashed and redone to the point where very little is similar to the original. Versions are released with significant improvements on the original.

I think that you should not bash Paradox games for doing this, since the games are drastically different on the inside, while they do look similar on the outside. WitP looks exactly like UV (based upon PacWar, a really old game), but they are vastly different games.

The market doesn't think this is a bad move, look at the reviews and sales are good. There are very few complaints by game owners on the forums either. You don't even have the game, and you pass judgement? That is completely unfair.

(in reply to Error in 0)

Post #: 159

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 4:53:01 AM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
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Thank you. This is so new and revolutionary we should call it "M'Naghten's Rule."

(in reply to McNaughton)

Post #: 160

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 4:59:50 AM

Zeta16

Posts: 1199
Joined: 11/20/2002
From: Columbus. Ohio
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: McNaughton

quote:

JallaTryne

Laugh all you want, but bashing me is immature at best. If you buy a new game with old graphic, does this not lend hand to the feeling this is not a new game? I certainly believe so, and if you ask the marked out there, Im sure they feel this too. I also point out there is many changes to the game that is more important than a change of the graphics would be, but you obviously did not read that. If HoI2 did improve the graphichs, I am sure many would be more positive to the idea of HoI2 being an new game. Its really difficult to make that distinction based on screenshots or a limited Demo.

Thank you very much for your valuable input.

JT

Sorry, but I just attributed all of the complaints you had about Paradox games upon Matrix games themselves. I personally don't see this as a problem, or a situation, but, if you are going to nail Paradox for this 'problem', you should nail Matrix games for exactly the same thing. As far as I know graphics weren't improved from UV to WitP. Does it look like a new game? No, (internally it is), but what's wrong about that? Games are constantly full of expansions, and second versions (doom 1 and doom 2 weren't significantly different, eh?). Virtually every segment of the game has been rehashed and redone to the point where very little is similar to the original. Versions are released with significant improvements on the original.

I think that you should not bash Paradox games for doing this, since the games are drastically different on the inside, while they do look similar on the outside. WitP looks exactly like UV (based upon PacWar, a really old game), but they are vastly different games.

The market doesn't think this is a bad move, look at the reviews and sales are good. There are very few complaints by game owners on the forums either. You don't even have the game, and you pass judgement? That is completely unfair.

Have half of you guys even played WiTP. It is now where near the same game. Let's see different hex sizes, more control over every unit, more units. The game is nowhere near UV. It plays totally different. Things you would do in UV wil get you killed in WiTP.

This is getting just like the Paradox boards. We can not have a discussion about the game with people defending it and saying the side who disagrees is totally wrong. Then they start to take down other games to try to make HOI2 look better in their eyes. Go to the WiTP boards, you are aloud to say their problems and then there discussions. Then the small teams tries to fix it. That never happens on the paradox boards.

< Message edited by Zeta16 -- 1/11/2005 10:00:55 PM >

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(in reply to McNaughton)

Post #: 161

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 5:21:18 AM

fahdiz

Posts: 29
Joined: 5/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zeta16
Go to the WiTP boards, you are aloud to say their problems and then there discussions. Then the small teams tries to fix it. That never happens on the paradox boards.

That is quite simply untrue, and anyone who has been involved with a Paradox beta can tell you it's untrue. Reasonable posts detailing a problem and offering constructive advice are always taken seriously.

(in reply to Zeta16)

Post #: 162

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 5:29:23 AM

Veldor

Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
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Post #: 163

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 5:31:37 AM

ravinhood

Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline

quote:

Yeah good for seaman, i just played HOI2 for 10 hours non-stop.I'm very happy with it, so it's your loss.

I've still got $40 bucks in my pocket plus shipping and handling, so I don't see it as a loss at all. ;)

I played Combat Mission Afrika Korps for 10 hours non-stop, so like I got an equal amount of entertainment and still $40 in my pocket. ;)

(in reply to ASHBERY76)

Post #: 164

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 7:07:42 AM

dinsdale

Posts: 384
Joined: 5/1/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zeta16
Have half of you guys even played WiTP. It is now where near the same game. Let's see different hex sizes, more control over every unit, more units. The game is nowhere near UV. It plays totally different. Things you would do in UV wil get you killed in WiTP.

This is getting just like the Paradox boards. We can not have a discussion about the game with people defending it and saying the side who disagrees is totally wrong. Then they start to take down other games to try to make HOI2 look better in their eyes. Go to the WiTP boards, you are aloud to say their problems and then there discussions. Then the small teams tries to fix it. That never happens on the paradox boards.

Perhaps you missed the point, or perhaps you simply disagree with it. Amid the bashing that HOI2 is not sufficiently different enough were a number of WiTP afficianados. Obviously it's a different game from UV, but more or less different than HOI/HOI2? Not enough to allow the comfortable haze of self-delusion present in this thread.

As for the WiTP boards, there are similar distribution of fanbois, trolls and over-defensive beta's compelled to answer every criticism as some on the Paradox boards. In fact, I'd swear some of them have a team posting under their name to ensure they're in every single thread.

Try to be a little objective, you may dislike a game, but realise it's for subjective reasons. WiTP was released unfinished, is still unfinished, unbalanced, with a walkover AI. In fact, a perfect copy of HOI.

(in reply to Zeta16)

Post #: 165

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 8:24:47 AM

ravinhood

Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline

WitP really that bad Dinsdale? I didn't get it, (don't like monster games). I'm looking forward to World at War though and Strategic Command 2 I think, but, neither immediately upon release.

Believe it or not I'm really waiting on a #2 game, only because it's updated to work on WinXP and I'm tired of fussing with the DOS version trying to get the sound to work and that is "Master of Magic 2". The folks that did Galactic Civilization are attempting to get the rights to it now and if/when they do they are going to remake the game for todays computers with very few enhancements other than graphics and they say an improved AI. It's a repeat of course, but, nearly 15 years between repeats is not quite the same as a couple of months as was between HOI Platinum and HOI 2.

(in reply to dinsdale)

Post #: 166

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 8:46:25 AM

dinsdale

Posts: 384
Joined: 5/1/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

WitP really that bad Dinsdale? I didn't get it, (don't like monster games). I'm looking forward to World at War though and Strategic Command 2 I think, but, neither immediately upon release.

It's a frustrating mix of genius, sloppiness and incredulity. Even after what, 3 or 4 patches there are still some head-scratching bugs in there. When released it had a host of problems which is why it is IMHO Matrix's equivalent of HOI (Although GI Combat would have come close if it had ever become even slightly playable.)

I'd recommend it though as it's a lot better than it was, and if you can overlook some peculiarities in design, you can have a great deal of fun. It's about the only game I've played which puts logistics planning and organisation at the forefront. It's not flashy, or even much like a game in the traditional sense.

quote:

Believe it or not I'm really waiting on a #2 game, only because it's updated to work on WinXP and I'm tired of fussing with the DOS version trying to get the sound to work and that is "Master of Magic 2". The folks that did Galactic Civilization are attempting to get the rights to it now and if/when they do they are going to remake the game for todays computers with very few enhancements other than graphics and they say an improved AI. It's a repeat of course, but, nearly 15 years between repeats is not quite the same as a couple of months as was between HOI Platinum and HOI 2.

I never had the original, and I don't really like fantasy that much, but apparently there's another game called Dominions (i think that's the name) which is supposed to be superb. It might fill the void between now nad MoM and should be a bargin bin item.

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 167

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 10:39:38 AM

ravinhood

Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
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Beleive it or not Dominions II is holding it's value as of this date. I've kept a careful watch on it and the lowest I've found is $34.95, even ebay bids are still high. It's that "good". It's also very "complex". I have the demo and the AI is pretty tough. It's not flashy by any means. And combat is command decision, not a tactical skirmish like Master of Magic or Age of Wonders series. But, the combinations of magic and abilities that one can do are practically unlimited. One could spend the rest of their lives trying out all the combinations and I don't think they would finish them all.

How quickly a game loses it's value tells me a lot about the quality of the game. Heh, Victoria went down so fast people couldn't even give it away hardly on ebay for awhile. I haven't followed CK, but, I would wager it's under the $20 or $15 range by now also.

Just try to buy a copy of "Axis & Allies Iron Cross" edition for less than $50 today on ebay or Amazon.com. Though I know where it is a download as vaporware, I find it hard to believe people are paying so much for that edition. Why?

Close Combat III is another game that seems to have extreme value upwards of $70 though I have seen it under $30 late night/early morning hours.

All the Talon Soft Civil War series, when those go up as a package deal, it's very hard to get that set for under $30, have seen it go as high as $50.

Of course with the Thailand and Taiwan marketeers on ebay now, many new games are well under $20 almost immediately upon release. Doom III, Rome Total War, UT2004 and many others. It will be interesting to see if they hawk HOI 2. Usually they only hawk the real "good" games. hehe

(in reply to dinsdale)

Post #: 168

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 5:17:27 PM

Pippin

Posts: 1233
Joined: 11/9/2002
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quote:

Just try to buy a copy of "Axis & Allies Iron Cross" edition for less than $50 today on ebay or Amazon.com.

Well that must have been vapour ware before it even got off the ground. There was never any Axis & Allies Iron Cross edition and I have owned them all.

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(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 169

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 5:55:25 PM

RBWhite

Posts: 1484
Joined: 8/28/2004
From: Somerdale, New Jersey, USA
Status: offline

I personally think the best solution would be for all to purchase HOI2. If you like RTS.

It would be no different than an ammunition purchase.

Each after a period of play would at that time have the right & privilege to either Praise HOI2 or Bite it's head off.

I have Axis & Allies, my kids gave it to me, I'm glad that their not here to see me write this, I don't like it, I just keep it on my machine so they don't get suspicious same with Battlefield Viet Nam.

I think, as I said before, we have all purchased a game(s) and got burnt, $30, 40, 50, 60+. Whats one more time.

Thats not my opinon of HOI2.

I just don't know.

Rick White

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Post #: 170

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 7:31:00 PM

ASHBERY76

Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
I played Combat Mission Afrika Korps for 10 hours non-stop, so like I got an equal amount of entertainment and still $40 in my pocket. ;)

Were you the one moaning about HOI2 being just patch? and you bought a full price CMBB add on

.

< Message edited by ASHBERY76 -- 1/12/2005 5:34:14 PM >

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 171

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 7:45:21 PM

Hortlund

Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
I played Combat Mission Afrika Korps for 10 hours non-stop, so like I got an equal amount of entertainment and still $40 in my pocket. ;)

Were you the one moaning about HOI2 being just patch? and you bought a full price CMBB add on.

ravinhood = OWNED

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to ASHBERY76)

Post #: 172

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 8:00:23 PM

freeboy

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline

I seriously doubt Ravenhood spent money on cm3 opr cmak as it is known, probably got a "copy" off ebay for 5.00

(in reply to Hortlund)

Post #: 173

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 8:04:03 PM

ASHBERY76

Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline

Another great review.Keep digging ravinhood,keep digging that bigger hole for yourself.

http://pc.boomtown.net/en_uk/articles/art.view.php?id=7090

(in reply to freeboy)

Post #: 174

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 8:10:16 PM

Hortlund

Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

I seriously doubt Ravenhood spent money on cm3 opr cmak as it is known, probably got a "copy" off ebay for 5.00

Nah, he doesnt seem to be the kind of person who pays for his games. But still the CM series kinda shoots another big hole in his "we should not have to pay for new games"-theory, doesnt it. UV-WITP, CMBO->CMBB->CMAK, CIV1-3, HoI1-2...

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to freeboy)

Post #: 175

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 8:25:06 PM

Hanal

Posts: 2312
Joined: 11/1/2003
Status: offline

As I will be purchasing HO2 in the near furure, I do have one question that I wondered was ever considered......Has it ever been discussed to change the EU engine to allow the "option" of playing the game turn based if you wanted to do so?....there have been games produced where you had the ability to play a game RTS/Continuous Movement or Turn Based, and I just wonder if this has ever been discussed in any great length over at the Paradox boards....

(in reply to Hortlund)

Post #: 176

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 8:59:35 PM

ravinhood

Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline

quote:

and you bought a full price CMBB add on

Who said I bought a "full price" CMBB add on? I buy on ebay, hardly full price, was well under $15 and CMAK brings in the Americans, British, Italians, Canadians, and many more that CMBB did not have. The AI is also improved in CMAK, kicks my butt 50% of the time on AI assault missions. Great AI that can do that to me.

Also where did I ever say I wouldn't "buy" HOI 2? I have stated and always stated I will not buy Paradox games upon "release". I will wait 2 to 6 months and buy the more "finished" product with most all the patching done and at a lesser price. That's just "intelligent" purchasing on my part. You can waste your money if you want to, I care not.

You will find it rare in me that I ever purchase a "new" release. I waited a whole year on CMAK. Did the same for CMBB. I got Eric Youngs Squad Assault for .99 cents on ebay. Wasn't even trying to win the bid, but, no one else bid on it, so I got it for .99 cents.

The game would have to be pretty grand for me to shell out retail price for what I know to be buggy and flawed out of the box these days. That ole dog don't bark anymore.

I bought Spartan retail $29.99 and it was a worthy purchase, in fact I didn't even use the patch 1.017 (the retail version I bought had version 1.013) on one version because it took away from the game in the AI, made it easier. Spartan has one of the best AI's of this century. And is of course the single most greatest strategy game of the century also. No matter what anyone else says. :)

< Message edited by ravinhood -- 1/12/2005 2:18:47 PM >

(in reply to ASHBERY76)

Post #: 177

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 9:05:28 PM

ravinhood

Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Another great review.Keep digging ravinhood,keep digging that bigger hole for yourself.

http://pc.boomtown.net/en_uk/articles/art.view.php?id=7090

And the player reviews aren't so "great". Ashbery76 keep digging that bigger hole for yourself.

http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/920609.asp?q=hearts%20of%20iron

66% lol, my my my HOI 2 is getting some great player reviews isn't it? lol
Goes to show magazine reviews are too biased and do not tell the "whole truth" about a game. Players don't hesitate to tell what's really in a game and score them appropriately.

< Message edited by ravinhood -- 1/12/2005 2:05:49 PM >

(in reply to ASHBERY76)

Post #: 178

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 9:13:37 PM

ravinhood

Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pippin

quote:

Just try to buy a copy of "Axis & Allies Iron Cross" edition for less than $50 today on ebay or Amazon.com.

Well that must have been vapour ware before it even got off the ground. There was never any Axis & Allies Iron Cross edition and I have owned them all.

You're right Pippin it wasn't "Iron Cross" but, "Iron Blitz". Do you have that one?

(in reply to Pippin)

Post #: 179

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/12/2005 10:17:41 PM

ASHBERY76

Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Another great review.Keep digging ravinhood,keep digging that bigger hole for yourself.

http://pc.boomtown.net/en_uk/articles/art.view.php?id=7090

And the player reviews aren't so "great". Ashbery76 keep digging that bigger hole for yourself.

http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/920609.asp?q=hearts%20of%20iron

66% lol, my my my HOI 2 is getting some great player reviews isn't it? lol
Goes to show magazine reviews are too biased and do not tell the "whole truth" about a game. Players don't hesitate to tell what's really in a game and score them appropriately.

Heh, it's a conspiracy! World media giants Paradox are bribing the game world to get great review scores.Keep digging boy,keep digging.

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 180

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1.111

Slitherine

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers