Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Name This...(287)

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Name This...(287) Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 2:10:18 AM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		???









_____________________________





Beta Team Member for:

WPO
PC
CF
AE
WiTE

Obi-wan Kenobi said it best: A lot of the reality we perceive depend on our point of view
Post #: 1
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 2:12:29 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		US Naval Gun Breach, My guess os 14"/50 Mk 7 as deployed on New Mexico and Tennessee class battleships.

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 2
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 6:20:33 AM   
mlees


Posts: 2263
Joined: 9/20/2003
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		Looks like one of the old dryers in the laundromat I use.

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 3
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 7:58:32 AM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		It's an interrupted screw (I hate it when that happens!).

_____________________________

Fear the kitten!

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 4
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 8:02:23 AM   
mlees


Posts: 2263
Joined: 9/20/2003
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		Yup, but a 14inch cannon is something to be proud of, and show off to all your friends!

(in reply to tsimmonds)
Post #: 5
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 8:05:02 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		I remember, my grandad showed me a home movie they made on the Mississippi (his tugboat). They took one of those oldstyle movie cameras, put it in the muzzle, and let it slide all the way down to the breach where someone caught it.

He also told me of a time (he just told me last Saturday, in fact) that they saw a bunch of sharks one time, and they harpooned it, and hoisted it up with the stern crane. Said it was 14 feet long! Don't know if its true, but that's what he said.

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to mlees)
Post #: 6
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 3:45:54 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

US Naval Gun Breach, My guess os 14"/50 Mk 7 as deployed on New Mexico and Tennessee class battleships.


Well, this guy has a USN tat on his forearm. Somehow, i get the impression that he is looking at this thing as a specimen though - like he hadn't seen it's like before, although i'm not sure how that squares with the no shirt. Could this be from a captured (i.e. IJN) ship?

_____________________________


(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 7
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 3:52:16 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

US Naval Gun Breach, My guess os 14"/50 Mk 7 as deployed on New Mexico and Tennessee class battleships.


Well, this guy has a USN tat on his forearm. Somehow, i get the impression that he is looking at this thing as a specimen though - like he hadn't seen it's like before, although i'm not sure how that squares with the no shirt. Could this be from a captured (i.e. IJN) ship?



I revise my guess - looking at the size of this thing compared to the guys forearm - the actual breach size does not seem to be much different than the size of his forearm (wrist to elbow) - in fact it looks somewhat smaller.

Measuring the size of my own forearm = c. 1 foot. So, maybe, despite my initial impression, this is smaller than 14". Maybe 8", or possibly 12" (Alaska Class cruiser?)

_____________________________


(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 8
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 8:10:50 PM   
mikemike

 

Posts: 501
Joined: 6/3/2004
From: a maze of twisty little passages, all different
Status: offline 		I´d guess this is not a British gun. The breech blocks on British guns swung to the side, like an opening door, once they were retracted from the bore. At least they did on the 15-inchers. I guess that would rule out Japanese guns, too. The Japanese 14-inchers were copies of a British (Vickers) design. I´ve seen a breech block that drops like this in that movie where a ship´s cook defeats a gang of terrorists who have captured the Iowa-class battleship he´s serving on. I don´t know the original name of the movie, it was called "Alarmstufe Rot" (Red Alert) in Germany. He fired one of the 16-inchers at the terrorists´ sub, sinking it, of course. The breech of that gun worked just like the one in the photo, IIRC.

_____________________________

DON´T PANIC - IT´S ALL JUST ONES AND ZEROES!

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 9
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 8:30:15 PM   
rkr


Posts: 29
Joined: 7/26/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mikemike

I´d guess this is not a British gun. The breech blocks on British guns swung to the side, like an opening door, once they were retracted from the bore. At least they did on the 15-inchers. I guess that would rule out Japanese guns, too. The Japanese 14-inchers were copies of a British (Vickers) design. I´ve seen a breech block that drops like this in that movie where a ship´s cook defeats a gang of terrorists who have captured the Iowa-class battleship he´s serving on. I don´t know the original name of the movie, it was called "Alarmstufe Rot" (Red Alert) in Germany. He fired one of the 16-inchers at the terrorists´ sub, sinking it, of course. The breech of that gun worked just like the one in the photo, IIRC.


Oh yes, Under siege with Steven Segal. The ship was Iowa and Erika Eleniak presented herself topless. Very nice and the movie was worth watching too...

_____________________________

If some is good, and more is better, then too much is just right!

(in reply to mikemike)
Post #: 10
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 8:32:15 PM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

US Naval Gun Breach, My guess os 14"/50 Mk 7 as deployed on New Mexico and Tennessee class battleships.


Well, this guy has a USN tat on his forearm. Somehow, i get the impression that he is looking at this thing as a specimen though - like he hadn't seen it's like before, although i'm not sure how that squares with the no shirt. Could this be from a captured (i.e. IJN) ship?



I revise my guess - looking at the size of this thing compared to the guys forearm - the actual breach size does not seem to be much different than the size of his forearm (wrist to elbow) - in fact it looks somewhat smaller.

Measuring the size of my own forearm = c. 1 foot. So, maybe, despite my initial impression, this is smaller than 14". Maybe 8", or possibly 12" (Alaska Class cruiser?)


Actually, last night as I was thinking about this last night, it may very well be an 8"/55 or 12"/50 gun. But remember, its not the circumference that you measure, its the diameter.

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 11
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 8:40:08 PM   
mlees


Posts: 2263
Joined: 9/20/2003
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		With a breech block swinging down like that, and intended to be operated manually, it shouldn't be more than 75-90 pounds max. I don't remember. In "Under Siege", was the breech block hydraulic?

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 12
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 8:42:51 PM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		It was, but that was a 16" gun.... Its been 5 years since I have seen a 14" gun breach (USS Texas).

So, we'll say this.

Its larger than 5", but smaller than 16"

So, 6, 8, 12, 14. Those are our gun choices.

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to mlees)
Post #: 13
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 8:53:55 PM   
mlees


Posts: 2263
Joined: 9/20/2003
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		OK. With a manual breech loader like that, I am gonna guess the shell and powder was loaded by hand. (A little bit of an assumption here, but I don't see a loader tray or rammer in frame. They could be on some swing in/swing out set up, but I dunno.)

A 6 inch shell weighs roughly 90 lbs, and was considered the largest calibre (I think) that would be convenient to require manual loading and not tire out the gunners. (This helps keep up a high rate of fire.) An 8inch should have a loading tray or rammer. Then again, that looks a lot bigger than 5 or 6 inches. Sigh. I can't make up my mind.

I agree on the Mrs. Eliniak rating, by the way...




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 14
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 8:56:36 PM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		Well, the loading tray isn't in the picture... After the breach was opened, then it would be lowered. But the guy is in the way.

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to mlees)
Post #: 15
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 8:58:03 PM   
Gudgeon

 

Posts: 21
Joined: 7/31/2004
Status: offline 		I believe most of the interior scenes for Under Siege were filmed on the USS Alabama in Mobile Bay.

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 16
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 9:01:20 PM   
mlees


Posts: 2263
Joined: 9/20/2003
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		Even so, the Alabama has 16inch guns also. The breech loading equipment for a 16/45 and 16/50, or whatever, should look the same to a neophyte like me...

< Message edited by mlees -- 1/12/2005 11:03:16 AM >

(in reply to Gudgeon)
Post #: 17
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 9:02:50 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees

OK. With a manual breech loader like that, I am gonna guess the shell and powder was loaded by hand. (A little bit of an assumption here, but I don't see a loader tray or rammer in frame. They could be on some swing in/swing out set up, but I dunno.)

A 6 inch shell weighs roughly 90 lbs, and was considered the largest calibre (I think) that would be convenient to require manual loading and not tire out the gunners. (This helps keep up a high rate of fire.) An 8inch should have a loading tray or rammer. Then again, that looks a lot bigger than 5 or 6 inches. Sigh. I can't make up my mind.

I agree on the Mrs. Eliniak rating, by the way...



This thing clearly looks bigger than 6". Any possibility that it is 10" as in a Coastal Defence battery?

My guess is still 8" or 12". If I had to guess, i'd say 12" from Alaska class. Brady already showed us one color picture from the Alaska! Maybe he has more

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 1/12/2005 4:04:06 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to mlees)
Post #: 18
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 9:03:31 PM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		It could also (if a 12") be from the Arkansas...

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 19
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/12/2005 9:04:57 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

It could also (if a 12") be from the Arkansas...



Good thought!

_____________________________


(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 20
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/13/2005 4:35:14 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

It could also (if a 12") be from the Arkansas...



Good thought!



OK - here is a picture below of the 12" gun from USS Arkansas. Note the side-closing breech block.

If this thing is about 1 cu ft. of steel, it must weigh close to 700 pounds. Too heavy for a manual lift-up type closure, i think.


So - I am guessing Brady is showing us an 8" gun.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 21
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/13/2005 4:46:29 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		based on that.... I am going to guess 12"/50 from an Alaska...

I still think its to big to be an 8 incher, but who knows...

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 22
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/13/2005 5:43:38 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

based on that.... I am going to guess 12"/50 from an Alaska...

I still think its to big to be an 8 incher, but who knows...


Possibly - apparently, the more modern US Naval artillery had a drop down top-hinged breech block that was powered - not manual.

_____________________________


(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 23
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/13/2005 5:49:51 AM   
pompack


Posts: 2582
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline 		14in/50 Mark 6 (I think)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

US Naval Gun Breach, My guess os 14"/50 Mk 7 as deployed on New Mexico and Tennessee class battleships.



Same gun, same platform, Tankerace and I differ only on what Mark was deployed on Tennesseee

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 24
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/13/2005 6:06:53 AM   
mbatch729


Posts: 537
Joined: 5/23/2001
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		Actually, US 16/50 Mark 7, if I were a betting man.

< Message edited by mbatch729 -- 1/12/2005 11:07:21 PM >

_____________________________

Later,
FC3(SW) Batch
USS Iowa

(in reply to pompack)
Post #: 25
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/13/2005 6:09:05 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		Well, shoot! Last time i used body measurements, the guy was bigger than me. This time, it appears he is also much taller - or has longer limbs.

Below is a picture of a US 16"/50 (40.6 cm) Mark 7 breech.

I am going to make that my guess!

UPDATE: Double rats! While i was posting my picture, mbatch729 beat me - i didn't see his guess until after i posted mine!




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 1/13/2005 1:15:15 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 26
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/13/2005 7:41:33 AM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		16/50 MK VII, it is

_____________________________





Beta Team Member for:

WPO
PC
CF
AE
WiTE

Obi-wan Kenobi said it best: A lot of the reality we perceive depend on our point of view

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 27
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/13/2005 8:35:33 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Didn't they wear some kind a protective gear? Were there no embers when they opened the breech after firing? Could be the combustion was total I suppose.

While we're at it, how about some friggin' ear protection?

Also, that gunner needs to get back in line for seconds when they are serving Sh** on a shingle.

< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 1/13/2005 6:37:01 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 28
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/13/2005 3:39:07 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Didn't they wear some kind a protective gear? Were there no embers when they opened the breech after firing? Could be the combustion was total I suppose.

While we're at it, how about some friggin' ear protection?

Also, that gunner needs to get back in line for seconds when they are serving Sh** on a shingle.


Probably they aren't actually involved in firing the gun right now. If they were, that guy (at least the one in my photo) is going to have a blister down the length of his forearm (in contact with the breech block). They guys in the Arkansas photo don't seem to be wearing anything special, though.

I have read that anti-flash gear was actually not standard in US ships until after the Falklands war and they analyzed what happened there. I have never been able to verify if this is correct, or if it was voluntarily used by some ships or crew members. It was standard on Commonwealth ships back in WW2.

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 1/13/2005 10:42:42 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 29
RE: Name This...(287) - 1/13/2005 3:39:52 PM   
mbatch729


Posts: 537
Joined: 5/23/2001
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		For those interested, my sig picture is the USS Iowa firing a full broadside. And while I worked in the secondary (5") battery world, I did see the main battery stuff a lot.

_____________________________

Later,
FC3(SW) Batch
USS Iowa

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Name This...(287) Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.531