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hoi2 ? - 1/13/2005 12:32:19 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		anyone care to tell me? if the ai is adjustable.. can be made harder or super duper har
Post #: 1
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/13/2005 12:50:48 AM   
Hanal

 

Posts: 2312
Joined: 11/1/2003
Status: offline 		Well you know, if people could simply use email to send their petty remarks to one another, maybe we can have a decent discussion about this game....I asked a question which was not answered due to "Fred and Ethel" having a spat, so I'll ask again...was there ever any discussion about having the EU engine changed to allow the game to be played with a turn based "option"?....there have been games which allowed you to select either turn based or rts/continuous play as options, and since the turn based v. RTS/CT debate was fairly strong during the release of the first game, I'm curious if it was ever seriously discussed or considered during the making of HOI2?....I'll be buying it in any case, but I would think the game would have served a larger audience if this option was available....

< Message edited by J P Falcon -- 1/12/2005 5:51:51 PM >

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 2
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/13/2005 1:15:30 AM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline 		Johan the Paadox designer said he would never do turn based.That said HOI2 is the greatest WW2 strategic game ever in real time, so i'm not fussed.

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Post #: 3
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/13/2005 1:33:18 AM   
RBWhite


Posts: 1484
Joined: 8/28/2004
From: Somerdale, New Jersey, USA
Status: offline 		Hello Mr. White

I just spent about 20 minutes at the Hearts of Iron Website and I didn't find any mention of how the AI is designed to function.

Mr. White

< Message edited by RBWhite -- 1/12/2005 11:42:15 PM >

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RE: hoi2 ? - 1/13/2005 1:40:28 AM   
Hortlund


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

anyone care to tell me? if the ai is adjustable.. can be made harder or super duper har


Yes. Basically there are a lot of different ai-files for every nation. You find them in the ai-folder. If you open up one of those you will see what that particular ai will do. You will see what front it will prioritize, you will see what units it will want to build, what type of force ratio, if it will attack or defend etc etc etc. The ai is very moddable so knock yourself out

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RE: hoi2 ? - 1/13/2005 1:47:11 AM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		no it is only real time, but the time can be slowed way down or speeded up

you got 2 types of HARDness in the game, you can set the level of the game and the level on how agressive the AI will be

Hassle I think that should be set per country, IE, the French should be Cowardly, the Brits Bold, the IT foolish and so on, instead of one general level of agressiveness

overall, will say this game got some good ideas and some bad ideas, making Allies is retarded, upgradeing units is a good improvement over the last game, Tech is better, but still weak in places

I was shocked and HARD pressed in my first game while getting ready to hit the west, invaded Holland, and the French attack Saarbrucken, and broke the Army there, okay, no hassle, got 2 flank armys and broke off one of my panzer groups to hit them head on, shaddered all 3 of those armys too !!!!

got my other Panzers into the battle and drove them back into France, then moved back into my attack postions and rested/refitted up

but other then that shock, the battle of France, once it started was a cake walk (10 Armored (MkIII) 4 light (MkII) 6 Mot and 3 HQ) breaking though Belugm had no hassles

the Maggot line held fast, even when I tried to sneak attack it as the French started pulling troops out

overall, a nice improvement over HOI

Still have to say, if you liked or would play HOI, you will like this game, if you didn't like HOI, you will not like HOI2

overall would say it is a decent beer and preztil type game with very much more detail/complex then normal for the style of game

HARD_Sarge

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RE: hoi2 ? - 1/13/2005 2:02:38 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
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From: Colorado
Status: offline 		Well, I would like a game that when the AI is set to hard, is actual hard.. even if that means the engine "cheats" hate using that word
so I guess the files can be accessed, and I probably can give my enemies a bifg boost.. but it does not sound like HOI2 has multi level ai difficulty.. or am I not understanding?
btw the paradox sight is useless, server went down after I was there for about a minute!

< Message edited by freeboy -- 1/13/2005 8:02:40 AM >

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Post #: 7
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/13/2005 2:06:49 AM   
Salient

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 8/4/2003
From: Belgium
Status: offline
quote:

overall would say it is a decent beer and preztil type game with very much more detail/complex then normal for the style of game



That's an odd comment, but I see your point of view, sort of.

I have the original HOI and was really excited about it, but never managed to get immersed in it like in EU2.
I still having my doubts, not that I have anything against Paradox as a game developer. I guess that I simply don't have it in me to invest the time, already playing WiTP and just scratching the surface. Ah well, maybe in a few months, the fact remains : as a computer wargamer you can't ignore HOI 2.

< Message edited by Salient -- 1/13/2005 12:07:00 AM >

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RE: hoi2 ? - 1/13/2005 2:15:16 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		I like 4x games.. from civ to.. well you name it.. but some "rts" are so lame.. this does look intriguing, and the game looks like a winner if the enemy IA can beat me...
I might get this to puase my rtw addiction for solo play..
Juist re read the review at Wargamer and it does say "ai levels" hum this is interesting

< Message edited by freeboy -- 1/13/2005 8:55:43 AM >

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Post #: 9
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/13/2005 3:25:47 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
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From: Colorado
Status: offline 		HOI2 sounds like a dish at a resturant... "I'll take a Hoi2 and a side of pot stickers.. some egg rolls and hot mustard sauce to go please"

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Post #: 10
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/13/2005 3:33:51 AM   
SemperAugustus

 

Posts: 257
Joined: 1/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

Well, I would like a game that when the AI is set to hard, is actual hard.. even if that means the engine "cheats" hate using that word
so I guess the files can be accessed, and I probably can give my enemies a bifg boost.. but it does not sound like HOI2 has multi level ai difficulty.. or am I not understanding?
btw the paradox sight is useless, server went down after I was there for about a minute!


You can set the game difficulty AFAIK.

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 11
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/13/2005 8:52:49 AM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		there are 5 levels to how HARD the game can be played on (think these are more like your starting levels of stuff and how easy/HARD it is to do things)

and then there are 5 levels to how agressive the AI plays

my first game, I played at normal/normal (normally play on HARD/HARD, HARD/very HARD in HOI)

just started my attack on Russia, first week, looking very good, but half of my troops are burning out, so will have to start slowing the attack down, the SU still has 70 some units more then I do for Ground troops

but so far I am seeing I got level 4 AFV (Mk IV's with some Tiger I detachments) all I am seeing so far for the SU is level 2 (T-26/BT-7 ?)

got to say, the game is very stable so far, not like HOI was

on the statement about it being a Beer/Priztel game with more detail, well, think I trying to say, you have to pay attention to what is going on, and the game tries to be HARD Core, but it is very abstack, so don't want to say it is a "serious" wargame, or that it is a simple "arcade" game either

but it is enjoyable

HARD_Sarge

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RE: hoi2 ? - 1/13/2005 6:05:29 PM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		I understand.. what about supplies for the troops when they are deep inside enemyplaces like SU? Are their partisans cutting your rail lines.. do you have rail lines ?

and in another note... way to go Vic, I am all for heated mature opinionated back and forth, but thanks for helping set a highter standard here !!

< Message edited by freeboy -- 1/14/2005 12:08:46 AM >

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Post #: 13
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/13/2005 6:42:15 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		lets see, you don't have rail lines persay, but you each province has a transportion level (can't spell the right name for it) so you do have good areas and bad areas for getting supply though

I had partasans take over Brussels, and try to take over one of the province of Holland, more a hassle then anything else

for supply, part of what you produce, your IC is used for building goods for the people (keep them happy, making money, money used for reseach) building troops, building/buying supply, replancements and for upgades

in HOI you used supply and manpower for replacements, now you use ICs in replacements and manpower to repair units

which will say over all, I like the system, I am fighting the SU now, I should walk all over them, but supply and replacements/org is slowing me way down, so I am winning a Tact victory so far, but am a long way away from any Stat goals I had when I started

the SU started the battle with 231 Div's, I had 163, they are now down to 154 and I am at 176, I have Leningrag and Rostost (man my spelling is getting worse) major battles back and forth for Minsk

battle started around may 5th 1941, it is now july 5th

I was too weak when the battle started, I needed another 6-10 Cav Div's just to hold the line when I capture something and needed some airfields build and waiting to be used, so would give the edge to the AI in use of airpower, where I can apply mine, I win, but can't apply it across the whole front

it is a fun game, not the best ever made, not the worst either, a patch or two or once the CORE group get there mods ready and it should be very enjoyable

HARD_Sarge

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RE: hoi2 ? - 1/13/2005 8:49:12 PM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline
quote:

some egg rolls and hot mustard sauce to go please"


Damn you freeboy, now I want some chinese food....BAD!! lol China Pearl here I come.

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Post #: 15
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/14/2005 9:36:05 PM   
DamoclesX

 

Posts: 873
Joined: 4/9/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I really like it.

But, I LOVE wargames, but I also suck at them, horrible, I have bought a good share of wargames on this site, I just suck at them, all of them, horrible.

In hoi2
I got my ass kicked by france, I massed 61 divisions near their border and declared war/attacked.

I didnt even get into their terriroty, they held be off with about 13 divisions and broke my entire freaking army.

Oh and I didnt notice that poland had declared war at the same time I took france I guess, so they had pushed to berlin.

Ya, that sucked lol.


Btw is there any way to remove that 1947 timcap? that piss's me off, there is no way I can do this before 1947, maby 2947

< Message edited by DamoclesX -- 1/14/2005 10:34:07 PM >

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Post #: 16
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/14/2005 10:18:53 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		Someone will probably find a way to mod it. Check the Paradox forums.

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Post #: 17
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/15/2005 2:28:39 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

Damn you freeboy, now I want some chinese food....BAD!! lol China Pearl here I come.


"Let them eat cake"

Hoi 2 is pretty slick, very very cool way of using and asseigning leaders, including research teams... The building que and logistics is also spiffy... AND I HATE RTW's!!!!
The speed at which ships, planes and troops zome around is fanciful, and simplistic.. but it isn't trying to be witp, and it is relatively bug free, in one "strange" event polond was beated, got a white peace and the German army vanished!! lol so there are some, but after multiple hour no ctd

And the diplomatic model is sweet, I was able to cause a coup in Czech, giving me an easy ally .. playing in the 1936 campeign, while tedious gives yuou lots of room to push your specific research goals...
So in 11 40 I am just now at War with USSR, eating up LAtvia, Estonia and Lithuania, USSR didn't get them, and allied with Italy and Czeck, cannot seem to get Hungary, Bulgary or Rumania on board!.... Almost am done researching Middle quality heavy tank.. tiger 1, and my biggest winner, the type 21.. sub, I think that is it... BUT I am playing on an easy level, I am sure on hard these research goals would be impossible and I have had to skip some important stuff to get there.....

Overall I( would give this and A for playabilty an A for entertainment a B- for land combat model, B for both naval and air war...

The biggest "duh" is thesuper duper quickness of units, even after the first patch which slows down combat per the notes..

for what my opinion is worth..
check it out....

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 18
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/15/2005 2:40:18 AM   
rhondabrwn


Posts: 2570
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
Status: offline 		I'm really glad to hear a lot of these very positive reports coming out as opposed to the rampant Paradox bashing in the other (now locked) thread.

It benefits us all when game companies and designers continue to improve their products and continue to build loyal followings and forum members.

Company bashing on general principles does no one any good in the long run. I'm glad to see the high road being taken on this thread.

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My old Piczo site seems to be gone, so no more Navajo Nation pics :(

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Post #: 19
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/15/2005 5:25:05 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		HOI2 stinks.

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Post #: 20
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/15/2005 8:03:07 AM   
SemperAugustus

 

Posts: 257
Joined: 1/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy
but it isn't trying to be witp, and it is relatively bug free, in one "strange" event polond was beated, got a white peace and the German army vanished!! lol so there are some, but after multiple hour no ctd

They have been moved to the strategic redeployment pool, they don't dissappear so its as designed

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 21
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/15/2005 8:09:28 AM   
DamoclesX

 

Posts: 873
Joined: 4/9/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I wish fighter control was a lot easyer, and that you could split up divisions with ease

also.. I find once you are in a war its impossible to produce ANYTHING you have to spend so much money on re-enforcments

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Post #: 22
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/15/2005 11:45:28 AM   
Kensai

 

Posts: 81
Joined: 2/28/2002
From: Karlsruhe, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

I wish fighter control was a lot easyer, and that you could split up divisions with ease


Whats the problem with splitting up Armies? Just click the o <-> o Butten in the lower left of the unit screen.

quote:


also.. I find once you are in a war its impossible to produce ANYTHING you have to spend so much money on re-enforcments


The trick is, not to meet 100% of the reinforcements or upgrades, just assign around 10% to the reinforments and you will be fine.

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Post #: 23
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/15/2005 11:48:44 AM   
Kensai

 

Posts: 81
Joined: 2/28/2002
From: Karlsruhe, Germany
Status: offline 		@Freeboy:

next time you should take care of Poland first, or at least garrision the border ;).

And France: dont make a frontal assault on the marginot line, this is futile. Attack through Belgium and be sure you have some fast forces. If you want to repeat WW1, you will get the results :D.

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Post #: 24
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/15/2005 3:38:31 PM   
String


Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline 		I must say i'm very pleasantly surprised by Hoi2. I love all paradox games, Eu1 was like a dream come true, then two months later i got Eu2.. which was even better. Hoi1 was okay.. and when i finally figured out that you could patch it then it got quite good, but it was a game i got bored with quickly. Victoria was.. well a bit too much micromanagement but again fun when played with right countries. Crusader Kings was a dissapointment out of the box, several features not working etc. But when it was patched up it was good.

But HoI2 is seemingly bugless, has a very complete feeling, innovative (atleast imho) tech development system, a great improvement over hoi1 in ground combat and even more so in air and naval combat. It has taken a lot of micromanagement off the players back, replacements, upgrades, !!convoys!! and even leader assignment to some degree.

The partisan and transport capacity system simulates the logistical difficulties of invading russia and china much better than any system i've seen before. Japanese really tend to bog down in china (unlike in witp) and germans in russia (atleast on hard levels)

AI seems good for such a large an complex game and doesn't do stupidities.
It also takes advantage of your mistakes quickly. So it can give you a good asskicking if you do stupid things. Not something that happened in Hoi1

Also, something that can't be overlooked. A lot of effort has been put into giving the game a good feel. Tech and production screen backgrounds, all of the different naval air and ground units having the correct pictures in unit display, tho the map screen still has mostly generic sprites. The soundtrack is great, giving a nice feel to the game.

Overall the game has a nice finished feel to it and doesn't get boring for as long as I can see.

(in reply to Kensai)
Post #: 25
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/15/2005 6:42:50 PM   
DamoclesX

 

Posts: 873
Joined: 4/9/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		IT is a lot of fun, I think I have to spend more time reading up on it or something.

I get in wars and I need a re-enforcment level of like 500 points or something, and even at full bore I can produce maby 150 of that, and thats with cutting everything else out.

Great game tho, it sure is fun.

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Post #: 26
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/15/2005 10:51:26 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Hi DamoclesX

I think you just got to get used to the system

I was in the middle of the battle for SU land and only needed 333 reinforcements, as was posted, you don't need to have the full level, if you are winning, 20% is good enough, also, you can click the box inside army screen to prioratize that army, so they get reinforcements/upgrades first (air and armor are good choices here)

are you using your airpower to weaken the target hexes ?

big trick in the game is outflanking and cutting off the big battles, head on attacks will only push the line back

small countrys, you want land, large countrys, you want kills

for your IC, are you researching industry ? in 1941 as the GE I am pushing 300 IC or so

and also as posted, bypass the Maggot line, garrision your line so the French don't get frisky and go around there line, here you want speed, also, once you get the breakthough and fight the first 2 battles or so, you can break down the Armor army and split them off to run wild in the background (in Russia, don't split them !!!)

HARD_Sarge

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Post #: 27
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/16/2005 1:13:28 PM   
rhondabrwn


Posts: 2570
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
Status: offline 		I'm really glad to hear a lot of these very positive reports coming out as opposed to the rampant Paradox bashing in the other (now locked) thread.

It benefits us all when game companies and designers continue to improve their products and continue to build loyal followings and forum members.

Company bashing on general principles does no one any good in the long run. I'm glad to see the high road being taken on this thread.

_____________________________
quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

HOI2 stinks.


And then there are still those few who seem to hold a long lasting and personal grudge against specific companies...

I'm sorry everyone, but Mr Pasternakski has ruled all of your favorable comments and observations out of order and irrelevant.

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Love & Peace,

Far Dareis Mai

My old Piczo site seems to be gone, so no more Navajo Nation pics :(

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Post #: 28
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/16/2005 7:49:04 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		I've just tried the demo, and I was a bit disconcerted with the air aspect.

From what I could see, you can only assign a task to a fleet of aircraft...ie, if an airfield has some bombers and fighters, you cannot assign bombers ground attack roles and fighters air superiority roles. Is this correct, or have I missed something?

ALso, you can only assign "areas" to aircraft tasks. I couldn't see anyway of assigning a specific region i.e. Eindhoven, as an area for targeting.

Any ideas anyone?

I'm not sure about this game. I'vm very confused about my preferred role. I like the strategic planning but I think it's too heavy for me...so I tend to stick with the "get down and dirty" games. I fancy myself as the Big Cheese...but I don't think I can cut it. I like R:TW because that has a bit of stretegic and tactical...I don't know if I'll get this one...maybe, maybe not. I didn't get on very well with Uncommon Valor for the same reason...it's so big and open, I just didn't know what to do. There were no tasks, objectives, goals...nothing. So I had no idea how I was going to win!

This looks even bigger and more in-depth - so I should think I'd be more lost.

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Post #: 29
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/17/2005 4:20:04 AM   
Colonel Warden

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 5/24/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

From what I could see, you can only assign a task to a fleet of aircraft...ie, if an airfield has some bombers and fighters, you cannot assign bombers ground attack roles and fighters air superiority roles. Is this correct, or have I missed something?
ALso, you can only assign "areas" to aircraft tasks. I couldn't see anyway of assigning a specific region i.e. Eindhoven, as an area for targeting.
You can divide a formation and so could separate the fighters from the bombers so that you can give them separate missions. If they are together the fighters are acting as close escorts for the bombers but will still engage enemy planes that you happen to encounter.

Missions are by area - there's no way to target a specific region. But the program has a scheme for deciding which region to pick in the area and this ought to be a sensible choice, depending upon the mission.

Andrew

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 30
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