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Good Book - 1/9/2005 7:04:03 AM   
Moose

 

Posts: 58
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline 		I am looking forward to this game, but in the interest of my historical education, I was wondering if anyone could answer this question? Does anyone know of a good book on the Great War that pays a lot of attention to the continuing influence it has on history?

I am very intrigued, and a little scared, about this war that has eluded my understanding having such a strong influence on current events, most notably the mid-east.
Post #: 1
RE: Good Book - 1/9/2005 8:16:53 AM   
FrankHunter

 

Posts: 2111
Joined: 3/26/2004
Status: offline 		Off the top of my head I thought Keegans First World War was the best single volume on the entire war. As for continuing influence I think he did address that, although probably not to the extent you're looking for. Been so long since I read it, back around when I started this project.

(in reply to Moose)
Post #: 2
RE: Good Book - 1/9/2005 9:44:09 AM   
Moose

 

Posts: 58
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline 		Thanks for the quick reply. I'm currently reading Zinn's People's History of the US, curious to say what he has to say on the matter.

Anxious to see your game, I think it's so cool that someone is making a game of WWI, I've never personally seen one before.

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 3
RE: Good Book - 1/9/2005 8:58:06 PM   
fahdiz


Posts: 29
Joined: 5/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Off the top of my head I thought Keegans First World War was the best single volume on the entire war. As for continuing influence I think he did address that, although probably not to the extent you're looking for. Been so long since I read it, back around when I started this project.


I must second this recommendation. Keegan touches frequently on the deep connections between the First World War and the Second. Not to mention, it's incredibly well-written - gripping, even.

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 4
RE: Good Book - 1/10/2005 12:07:32 AM   
Moose

 

Posts: 58
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline 		So basically you guys are concurring with the great reviews on Amazon? These things are pretty much what has been said there. I wanted to make sure I got the opinion of people I know are interested in the Great War though.

(in reply to fahdiz)
Post #: 5
RE: Good Book - 1/10/2005 12:37:51 AM   
Hanal

 

Posts: 2312
Joined: 11/1/2003
Status: offline 		Just because someone shares a similiar opinion from an Amazon review does not mean it was lifted from the site...the bottom line is that the Keegan book is very good and wouldn't you think people who read the book and posted a review at Amazon are interested in the period as well?.......Keegan also provides a personal flavor among the greater war by following the lives of specific individuals through the war years, like the poet Wilfred Owen.....

(in reply to Moose)
Post #: 6
RE: Good Book - 1/10/2005 1:31:31 AM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Keegan.

Im reasonably well read as far as WW1 goes. For an overall view go for Keegan.

For memiors I have a fantastic list if you want me to send it to you.


Another great historian is Hew Strachen.

(in reply to Hanal)
Post #: 7
RE: Good Book - 1/10/2005 1:36:19 AM   
Hanal

 

Posts: 2312
Joined: 11/1/2003
Status: offline 		Tuchman's Guns of August is well researched, but the writing style is a bit dry.... Keegan is more entertaining to read....

< Message edited by J P Falcon -- 1/9/2005 6:36:40 PM >

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 8
RE: Good Book - 1/10/2005 3:14:24 AM   
CSSS

 

Posts: 220
Joined: 7/24/2004
From: TEXAS
Status: offline 		Try both Martin Gilberts and S.L.A.Marshal's WWI each write with unique stlyes and perspectives.Another very good author is Robert K Massie's castles of steel about WW I naval operations.

< Message edited by CSS -- 1/10/2005 1:14:34 AM >

(in reply to Moose)
Post #: 9
RE: Good Book - 1/10/2005 3:51:21 AM   
Hanal

 

Posts: 2312
Joined: 11/1/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CSS

Try both Martin Gilberts and S.L.A.Marshal's WWI each write with unique stlyes and perspectives.Another very good author is Robert K Massie's castles of steel about WW I naval operations.


Reading so many books over the years causes one's mind to blur... the Keegan book is still very good, but I think it was the Martin Gilbert book, that CSS mentions, which provides the personal accounts that I mentioned in my earlier post....

(in reply to CSSS)
Post #: 10
RE: Good Book - 1/10/2005 7:18:51 AM   
Dirtdog20


Posts: 213
Joined: 1/17/2003
Status: offline 		For a good and well written over view Sir John Keegan is one of the best. I am currently reading Strahans one volume work on the war and find it unfullfilling compared to his projected 3 volume history of the war. Dont mistake me Strahans is a book to read and full of topics Keegan dosent cover, but space has forced him to edit out alot of the side efforts that give the war it's historical color.

For a historical over view of West/Middle East relations I would recomend Bernard Lewis and his series of books and essays on that subject. Lewis does a very good job looking back and ties together alot of events that are talked about today as setting the stage for the current world we find ourselves in.

P.S. Get Wodin to send you that list. It has expanded my library by several volumes and all of them are new favorites.

< Message edited by Dirtdog20 -- 1/9/2005 11:20:47 PM >

_____________________________

You mean that we gotta take a test after we read this stuff?!?

(in reply to Hanal)
Post #: 11
RE: Good Book - 1/10/2005 8:53:17 AM   
FrankHunter

 

Posts: 2111
Joined: 3/26/2004
Status: offline 		Just to stir the nest... anyone read Mosier?

(in reply to Dirtdog20)
Post #: 12
RE: Good Book - 1/10/2005 10:55:27 PM   
SirRodneyOfGout

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Hi,

Paul Fussell's The Great War and Modern Memory, and Modris Eckstein's The Rites of Spring are both about the social and cultural impact of the war. Neither are a history of the war, nor are they military history, but interesting reading on how the First World War influenced the way we think. Also good for gaining insight into the mentality of the politicians who tried, and failed, to deal with the rise of Nazi Germany.

For the continuing political influence of the Great War read Margaret Macmillan's Paris 1919 about the peace talks that resulted in the notoriously flawed Treaty of Versailles.

So many books, so many games, so little time Happy reading!

_____________________________

"Consult the book of armaments!" - Monty Python and the Holy Grail

(in reply to Moose)
Post #: 13
RE: Good Book - 1/11/2005 12:41:18 AM   
IronDuke_slith

 

Posts: 1595
Joined: 6/30/2002
From: Manchester, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Just to stir the nest... anyone read Mosier?


I twice got a copy from the Library (amongst other things) and never got round to it. Part of it was seeing critiques in an other work. I guess I'll read it eventually. His basic proposition seemed difficult to sustain, but not surprising, this is the era of the Patriot and U-571 after all.

I'd recommend Travers and Sheffield. Sheffield is pretty revisionist, and paints a very non-traditional picture of the war on the western front. He's written on Haig, the evolution of British tactics and has a new work on the Somme.

He doesn't deny Keegan's traditional picture of slaughter, but qualifies it, and tries to explain it.

Regards,
IronDuke

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 14
RE: Good Book - 1/11/2005 12:56:57 AM   
Dirtdog20


Posts: 213
Joined: 1/17/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Just to stir the nest... anyone read Mosier?


I have read it and think it is a must read for a fresh view on the war. Not saying you have to agree with him, just that you should read it so that you can take your ideas out and look at them in a new light.

That being said I enjoyed the book, well written and supported I feel. Mosier helped to bring together some ideas that I had and spurred research into others. In that way you could say one of the better books out there right now.

_____________________________

You mean that we gotta take a test after we read this stuff?!?

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 15
RE: Good Book - 1/11/2005 4:04:51 AM   
Moose

 

Posts: 58
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline 		Wow, this is great stuff guys.

I usually like getting my product reviews from as specific source as I can, I've seen too many general consumer magazines make bad reccomendations on issues that I am knowledgeable about.

(in reply to Dirtdog20)
Post #: 16
RE: Good Book - 1/11/2005 4:37:36 AM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Moose do you want me to email that lsit of memiors. Dirtdog bought some and really enjoyed them.

(in reply to Moose)
Post #: 17
RE: Good Book - 1/11/2005 5:13:25 AM   
fahdiz


Posts: 29
Joined: 5/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moose

So basically you guys are concurring with the great reviews on Amazon? These things are pretty much what has been said there. I wanted to make sure I got the opinion of people I know are interested in the Great War though.


I don't tend to read reviews on Amazon. Keegan's book was recommended to me by a good friend, and I wasn't disappointed.

(in reply to Moose)
Post #: 18
RE: Good Book - 1/11/2005 5:25:26 AM   
Moose

 

Posts: 58
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline 		wodin, that would be good.

I often read reviews on Amazon, but rarely buy based on them

(in reply to fahdiz)
Post #: 19
RE: Good Book - 1/11/2005 10:31:54 AM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		Keegan's book is good..............but for such a good over view it is sadly lacking in information regarding the efforts of troops from the commonwealth.

_____________________________




Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

(in reply to Moose)
Post #: 20
RE: Good Book - 1/11/2005 11:25:07 AM   
DoomedMantis


Posts: 1922
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		Anyone read HP Willmott's First World War? Just bought it so would be interested to see if anyone had read it and has an opinion

_____________________________

I shall make it a felony to drink small beer.

- Shakespeare

(in reply to Raverdave)
Post #: 21
RE: Good Book - 1/11/2005 11:28:13 AM   
DoomedMantis


Posts: 1922
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		I used to have the diary's of a Australian Light Horseman who fought in Gallipoli then Palistein. It was one of my most prized possestions before going missing in transit along with a whole box of my military history books, devastating loss.

_____________________________

I shall make it a felony to drink small beer.

- Shakespeare

(in reply to DoomedMantis)
Post #: 22
RE: Good Book - 1/12/2005 6:56:45 AM   
Dirtdog20


Posts: 213
Joined: 1/17/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DoomedMantis

I used to have the diary's of a Australian Light Horseman who fought in Gallipoli then Palistein. It was one of my most prized possestions before going missing in transit along with a whole box of my military history books, devastating loss.


That is a huge loss Mantis. I am sory to hear that anc can only hope that you didnt lose any other volumes like that.

_____________________________

You mean that we gotta take a test after we read this stuff?!?

(in reply to DoomedMantis)
Post #: 23
RE: Good Book - 1/12/2005 12:29:23 PM   
DoomedMantis


Posts: 1922
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		It was four of his diaries, everything else was replacable. The worst bit is that I didnt know they were missing untill I got them back from storage after spending 4 years overseas, which meant that all my attemps to find them were completely useless. I can only hope that whoever has them is looking after them well

_____________________________

I shall make it a felony to drink small beer.

- Shakespeare

(in reply to Dirtdog20)
Post #: 24
RE: Good Book - 1/14/2005 9:09:26 AM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		If you can find it "The Real War 1914-1918" by B.H.Liddell Hart is both a good read and military appraisal of the tactics and strategy employed by both sides in the war. It was written between the World Wars but still very enlightening.

(in reply to DoomedMantis)
Post #: 25
RE: Good Book - 1/14/2005 8:03:13 PM   
DerekH

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 3/26/2004
Status: offline 		George Mosse - Fallen Soldiers: Reshaping the Memory of the World Wars

It's in the same vein as Eksteins and Fussell, if you liked them this should be right up your alley.

Oh...and hello everyone.

(in reply to Moose)
Post #: 26
RE: Good Book - 1/15/2005 12:32:30 AM   
SirRodneyOfGout

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Hello back at you, DerekH.

Thanks for the reference to Mosse. I'm curious to read it, and now that I've taken a look at the reviews on Amazon even more so. Seems to counter the notion that the carnage of the western front de-glorified war in popular culture.

_____________________________

"Consult the book of armaments!" - Monty Python and the Holy Grail

(in reply to DerekH)
Post #: 27
RE: Good Book - 1/16/2005 11:21:22 PM   
MikeH1952

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: Salisbury England
Status: offline 		Not a complete history, but The Guns of August by Barbara Tuchman is a great read.

(in reply to SirRodneyOfGout)
Post #: 28
RE: Good Book - 1/18/2005 6:12:23 AM   
Byng

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline 		Barbara Tuchman has also written at least two other books dealing with the First World War, The Proud Tower and the Zimmerman Telegram. The Zimmerman Telegram is interesting because it provides an additional (disputed?) rationale for US entry into the war - besides German unrestricted U-Boat warfare. I think Tuchman's The Guns of August is still a relevant book, and a favourite of John F. Kennedy of course.

Niles Ferguson's "The Pity of War" is a contentious book that argues that the war was fought for no purpose and that Britain, in particular, should have stayed out of the conflict (Ferguson is British). Apparently, Strachan's work is a response to Ferguson's argument.

Fritz Fischer, a German historian, wrote "Germany's Aims in the First World War" which argued that Germany was bent on the conquest of Europe, so there was a continuum in German policy that preceded the First World War right through the Second.

I just read an excerpt from The Swordbearers: Supreme Command in the First World War by Correlli Barnett. It is somewhat dated (1964) but has a great section on Moltke and the implementation of the Schlieffen Plan that asks lots of hypotheticals. (They call that bad history now - but interesting reading!)

I agree that the history of the First World War is quite relevant today. The common conception is that the Allies (Entente) fought the war to counter German militarism and to prevent German hegemony...sort of sounds like the United States! The implication is that opposing nations will coalesce to prevent the emergence of a hegemonic power.

(in reply to Moose)
Post #: 29
RE: Good Book - 2/5/2005 8:39:16 AM   
Los

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline 		Would like to echo Niall Ferguson's "The Pity of War". Was a fascinating read, I actually took notes. If I recall he places an equal share of the blame for WW1 on Britain as he does Germany. Also it's statistic instense in some chapters, showing things such as Germany was a more cost effective killing machine than the Allies, and the whole British concept of attrition was suspect since the germans killed more guys than they lost (including all Allies combined) for every month or the war until the last couple of months during the pursuit phase. IIRC like Mosier he also lays out some of the official deception both the British and French armies engaged upon against their own governemnts to hide the extent of the mess they were making for themselves.

Mosier, Ferguson and Fussell make for an interesting trio of complementary reads.

Another very well written general history apart from Keegan is "The First World War: A Complete History" by Martin Gilbert.

I thought Tuchman's Guns of August is very well written and not dry at all, quite fascinating with great deal of detail on the first month of the war.

Oh and an enjoyable if very very long novel that I found interesting is Verdun by Jules Romains. The first chapter is especially interesting.

(in reply to Byng)
Post #: 30
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