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RE: hoi2 ? - 1/25/2005 5:19:45 AM   
Mr.Frag


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quote:

So how do I run WiTP in a window.


Create a shortcut and stick a -w on the end.

Interestingly enough, there is a hex hack for HOI2 that lets you make it run windowed too! Too bad you can't just add a -w ... oh well, windowed is windowed, don't care how I get there.

(in reply to Zeta16)
Post #: 61
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/25/2005 7:04:56 AM   
benway9

 

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i was told that hoi if patched all the way was the same as hoi2? i am assuming this is totally incorrect. i'd like to get into the game, but am not really satisfied with original HOI

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Post #: 62
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/25/2005 7:25:11 AM   
pod_1

 

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Like "benway9" I too like to know how different the HOI2 is because I hated the original HOI.

As for the –w option for WITP, that only worked correctly for me once I got Nvidia cards, when I had ATI the window would become corrupt when I used certain features ie. move air groups etc... .

Pod_1

(in reply to benway9)
Post #: 63
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/25/2005 11:18:28 AM   
Hortlund


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pod_1

Like "benway9" I too like to know how different the HOI2 is because I hated the original HOI.


The difference between HoI and HoI2 is much bigger than the difference between UV and WITP. HoI2 is a completely different game.

Alright, lets see
1) The map is more detailed, more provinces were added. The map is divided into areas (these are "under the surface" in normal map-mode, but you can click on a button to display these areas. These areas are important for air and naval combat, but more about that later).

2) New combat model for land units. In HoI1 your units walked into another province, and when they arrived combat would start. In HoI2 there is a new system called "movement is attack" meaning that combat will start right away when the unit recieves orders to attack into another province. So you will be fighting "between" the provinces, or you move and attack at the same time.

3) Brigades, many more models like armored cars, heavy tanks, self-propelled artillery or tank destroyers. These brigades can be moved between divisions. So you can detatch a brigade from one division, and reattach it to another.

4) New combat model for naval combat. Your ships now fight historically. There are three types of ships. Capital ships (BB,BC,CV), screens (CA,CL,DD) and submarines. To form an effective taskforce, you will need a good mix of screens and capital ships. At the start of a naval combat, each fleet gets a position value determined (0-100%. Doctrines and skill-levels of leaders affect this.) Each hour, this position may move up or down, depending on several factors. Various ships have different distances where they may fire upon others. A Carrier with an air group will have superior range to all, while a Battleship's guns reach much further than a destroyers. This distance changes during the combat, where doctrines and skillfull leadership rules supreme. Ships have a set target they fire upon, which does not change unless positioning is bad. If the opponent have better position or more screens or is more lucky, you'll most likely target his screens first. Extremely bad positioning at night may even cause friendly fire.

5) New order model for air and naval units. Instead of the micromanagement of HoI1, in HoI2 you give "standing orders" to your air/naval units. This is based on the area-model described in 1). Basically you will tell your fighters to do air superiority mission over the Ruhr area (3-5 provinces). You will choose parameters for the mission (fly day or night or both, startdate for mission and enddate for mission, and how much losses to accept before standing down for rest&refit).

So, for example, you can take a fighter unit, order it to fly air superiority over the Ruhr area (to protect the industry there) frmo january 1940 to january 1941, to fly both night and day, but to stand down when it is at 30% strength. You can then ignore that area of the map. The fighter unit will constantly patrol the area, and attack any enemy bombers it happens upon. Same with a naval bomber...order it to patrol a sea area, and it will do just that, for as long as you want. Same with all air units. Tell them their mission, and tell them where to do it, and how much losses to accept. Same with naval units. Order them to patrol a sea area looking for enemy ships, order them to raid convoys in a sea area, order them to shore bombard or whatever. There are many more mission types than these naturally.

6) New technology model. Instead of the research in HoI1 which could be kind of tedious with all the micromanagement, you get a completely new model in HoI2. You have tech teams, built around historical companies or characters. As germany for example, you will have Messerschmitt, Krupp, Porshe etc. These teams will have a skill level between 1-9, and certain areas of speciality. Thus Messerschmitt will be good at research related to aircraft etc, while Porshe will be good at research related to tanks. Every nation has a given number of "research slots" depending on the size of the economy of that nation, for example Germany will have 5, Denmark will have 1. You assign a team to a slot, and tell them what to research (basic fighter, basic light tank, advanced machine tools, basic anti-tank brigade etc etc etc). The team will start researching, and "under the hood" the team will research all the components for a fighter for example (such as 7,92mm MG, basic airframe, advanced avionics, etc etc).

7) New trade model. No more world market. You have to strike individual deals with individual nations.

8) Much more advanced diplomatic model with more options. Some multiplayer games will turn into diplomatic struggles. For example, I've seen games where the pre-war years were spent furiously building alliances. UK and Germany spent much of their economy on influencing future allies (diplomatic actions cost money, you recieve money depending on your domestic policies, and your economical slider settings). In 1939 war started because Russia (me) attacked Persia, because Persia had joined the axis, and I could not accept that.

9) Changes to upgrades and reinforcements. You no longer click on what unit to upgrade or reinforce. This is handled via slider settings in the economy/production-screen.

10) Changes to partisans, more changes to combat (special combat events), new units, new interface, new concepts (Supply efficiency, suddenly the advance through Russia will become a sluggish crawl due to the strains on the supply organization etc), etc etc etc. I realize now that the changes are more than I can type up here and now.

If you have any questions, fire away.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to pod_1)
Post #: 64
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/25/2005 12:31:19 PM   
JudgeDredd


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Yeah...do you work for the developer? You just seem to have a very in-depth knowledge of the game and it's only been out a month or so.

I liked you're description of it, though...makes me want it - unfortunately, it won't be out until lat Feb here!

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Alba gu' brath

(in reply to Hortlund)
Post #: 65
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/25/2005 12:34:50 PM   
Hortlund


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Yeah...do you work for the developer? You just seem to have a very in-depth knowledge of the game and it's only been out a month or so.


Yeah, I was in the first beta group. Been working on the game since January last year.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 66
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/25/2005 12:38:12 PM   
JudgeDredd


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From: Scotland
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Nice one....and whilst I'm here...you are gorgeous!

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Alba gu' brath

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Post #: 67
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/25/2005 12:47:45 PM   
Hortlund


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Yeah...you do realize thats not me...right?

Anyway, you can buy the game from Paradox right now if you want. http://www.paradoxshop.com/

< Message edited by Panzerjaeger Hortlund -- 1/25/2005 11:47:44 AM >


_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 68
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/25/2005 12:53:21 PM   
JudgeDredd


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Yes, I do. It's that gorgeous chik from Star Wars.

I may well buy that, then......or should I? I do risk castration!!

_____________________________

Alba gu' brath

(in reply to Hortlund)
Post #: 69
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/25/2005 1:19:34 PM   
Hortlund


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Yes, I do. It's that gorgeous chik from Star Wars.

I may well buy that, then......or should I? I do risk castration!!



Figuring things out for yourself is the only freedom anyone really has. Use that freedom


< Message edited by Panzerjaeger Hortlund -- 1/25/2005 12:19:30 PM >


_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 70
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/25/2005 7:58:53 PM   
freeboy

 

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Mr Frag, did you try the freeware called ?, darn it.. cannot remember of the top of my head, it allows some tweeking of cards and monitors... well, alot of very technical tweeking, just your thing.. so what is that program called anywho? Ok, I'll post it if I can find it...

btw, just over ran European USSR,forth try in1936 scenario.... they are now an Asian only empire.. one nice thing to help the germans is the ability to liberate small, and some not so small countries allowing for less need to suppress partisans... I liberated, Ukrain, Russia, Latvi, Lithuania, Estonia, all the Yogoslovian mini countries... and Finlan, and they even creat small armies that I can use.. hehe... but my manpower is finally gone... need to finally activate Italy and Japan as Allies.. and those darn Romanians didn't want to join up

My fourth attempt to do the 1936 scenario, finally got the "mix " right for what I wanted to do.. boy those airborne troops are a nice addition when leaping into new territory ... it is late 42 usa sued for peace.. don't know why.. I thought only the primary country in the allies, the English could do that... all with very little USA involvment and no British German attacks save air and sea

Can anyone say V2?
I like the weather and terrein modling, and night attack penelties, these cause you to really need to stay on top of the combats.. and the need for combined arms, although the USSR troops deployed t34's too late and I had all my panzers in pk4's and tiger brigades in about half....

interesting the "better" tanks really slow you down... found myself wanting an independant tiger batallian, something not available in this game model....

< Message edited by freeboy -- 1/26/2005 1:59:08 AM >

(in reply to Hortlund)
Post #: 71
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/25/2005 9:08:17 PM   
Mr.Frag


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From: Purgatory
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quote:

Mr Frag, did you try the freeware called ?, darn it.. cannot remember of the top of my head, it allows some tweeking of cards and monitors... well, alot of very technical tweeking, just your thing.. so what is that program called anywho? Ok, I'll post it if I can find it...


No need, the instructions let you modify the game itself so you don't have to screw around with other things. A toggle would have been nicer but as long as it works, who really cares eh?

http://www.geocities.jp/soukan_n/f/index.html

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 72
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/26/2005 12:13:25 AM   
freeboy

 

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Does that also allow for rendering different resolutions? I was thinking that was one of your beafcakes? no.. anyway I will continue to look for the freeware, it is released by a guy in Taiwan I think
anybody know this?
ok I'll go look again....
It is called Powerstrip very cool, although it gives you allot of "licence" to screw up your system.. use with caution

< Message edited by freeboy -- 1/26/2005 6:15:53 AM >

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 73
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/26/2005 3:49:05 AM   
Mr.Frag


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Naw, it would get me 1024x768 in a window, at least it's windowed ... obviously I'd love 1920x1200, but I don't expect that kind of support, I settle for a window so I can at least see things and have a notepad open while I work.

It never stops amazing me how much paper we end up using to play wargames. It strikes me a nuts to sit in front of a computer and still have to reach for a pad ... with a window, you don't need too

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 74
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/26/2005 11:13:28 AM   
JudgeDredd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Naw, it would get me 1024x768 in a window, at least it's windowed ... obviously I'd love 1920x1200, but I don't expect that kind of support, I settle for a window so I can at least see things and have a notepad open while I work.

It never stops amazing me how much paper we end up using to play wargames. It strikes me a nuts to sit in front of a computer and still have to reach for a pad ... with a window, you don't need too


Why the pad/notepad anyways, Mr Frag?

_____________________________

Alba gu' brath

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 75
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/26/2005 7:54:02 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
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From: Purgatory
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quote:

Why the pad/notepad anyways, Mr Frag?


To keep track of stuff like your global plans ... reminders of things you need to look at later, you name it ... not to mention the obvious advantage of keeping other useful things like email, messaging, etc all up on your screen for those who have jobs that don't end when the clock chimes 5.

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 76
RE: hoi2 ? - 1/26/2005 11:27:18 PM   
Henri

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

Why the pad/notepad anyways, Mr Frag?


To keep track of stuff like your global plans ... reminders of things you need to look at later, you name it ... not to mention the obvious advantage of keeping other useful things like email, messaging, etc all up on your screen for those who have jobs that don't end when the clock chimes 5.


Use alt-tab to move between the game and your notepad, it works with HOI2 apparently without causing any problems.

Henri

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 77
RE: hoi2 ? - 2/3/2005 11:56:47 AM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
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From: Reading, England
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Hi all,

Ordered HOI2 from Paradox Shop last Friday. Haven't received it as yet. How long did other's copies take to arrive?

Any idea on e-mail address I should send to to chase up?

(in reply to Henri)
Post #: 78
RE: hoi2 ? - 2/3/2005 6:41:36 PM   
Speedysteve

 

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Anyone?

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 79
RE: hoi2 ? - 2/3/2005 7:28:08 PM   
freeboy

 

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have you called the customer service? I picked my copy after MUCH hunting at local stores... only found one chain carrying it at release, and only 1 of 8 had any, exactly one copy left within 45 minutes of my home,...
good luck
and let us know what you think after you played

(in reply to Speedysteve)
Post #: 80
RE: hoi2 ? - 2/4/2005 7:29:16 AM   
SemperAugustus

 

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PM Flori on the paradox forum. I think he is in charge.

(in reply to freeboy)
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RE: hoi2 ? - 2/4/2005 1:24:28 PM   
Speedysteve

 

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Thanks Semper - never knew there was a forum! Do you have the link to the forum at all?

Thanks

(in reply to SemperAugustus)
Post #: 82
RE: hoi2 ? - 2/4/2005 1:51:02 PM   
Bodhi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Thanks Semper - never knew there was a forum! Do you have the link to the forum at all?

Thanks


try http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?

< Message edited by Bodhi -- 2/4/2005 7:51:06 PM >


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RE: hoi2 ? - 2/4/2005 2:13:52 PM   
Speedysteve

 

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Thanks Bodhi

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Post #: 84
RE: hoi2 ? - 2/4/2005 5:15:39 PM   
ancient doctor

 

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Poor man.You decided to get involved with these people?
Anyway i hope you wont regret it if HoI2 is better then the original half baked bulls...t they have released so far.
Anyway from what i know so far they still seem not to be capable of making naval air units function as they should(they arent independant in the game just an add on of CV which means they are not capable of independant action)while GG made it more than ok 10 years ago.

(in reply to Speedysteve)
Post #: 85
RE: hoi2 ? - 2/5/2005 11:19:29 AM   
Koper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ancient seaman

Poor man.You decided to get involved with these people?
Anyway i hope you wont regret it if HoI2 is better then the original half baked bulls...t they have released so far.
Anyway from what i know so far they still seem not to be capable of making naval air units function as they should(they arent independant in the game just an add on of CV which means they are not capable of independant action)while GG made it more than ok 10 years ago.


What do you mean "they were not capable"? That was design decision, that's all - some aspects of warfare are presented with more detail, some with less. More often then not, carrier air groups operated from carrier then anything else, so I guess it's acceptable simplification.

(in reply to ancient doctor)
Post #: 86
RE: hoi2 ? - 2/5/2005 3:56:28 PM   
freeboy

 

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this game could be a ten minuits turn rather than a one hour pulse, and detail the logistics down to cleaning the latrine, but instead it is an unusual happy medium where in you get many different types of air sea and land units with many upgrade paths, and lots of chioce for developement and research to stear your country. I agree HOI was TERRIBLE, but this product is actually a very fine game, thouroughly enjoyable

(in reply to Koper)
Post #: 87
RE: hoi2 ? - 2/5/2005 10:08:27 PM   
ravinhood


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In all fairness, HOI 2 is the same game as HOI 1, it's just got different mechanics, it's the same WAR, the same Operational Strategy level game it was and there's LESS unit detail than there was in HOI 1. No different looking planes to distinguish between plane types, might just as well use the NATO counters, I think that was their plan. There's some more provinces, wooptiedoo, big deal there. The graphics are as plain as before, no major improvements there. It really is just patch 1.06c continued into another mechanical version of the same game. Just another $40 for the same wargame with a different mechanical engine because the first one was so messed up. But, the fanbois will live and die and breathe for it, because they are zombies to the Paradox developers.

My opinion, if you don't have HOI 1, then get HOI 2 if this type of "real time" game play is your cup of tea for a wargame. If you have HOI 1, wait a few more months and grab this game out of the bargain bin, you'll get a more polished and for sure "PATCHED" game in that length of time, it's just the Paradox way, patching is their life after the game.

Now on a better related note. Rome Total War's patch 1.2 is out and is worth the ticket to this game now. The battle ai is much improved and there's finally a challenge to be found in the game. Took them nearly five months to "almost finish" this game. It still has some diplomacy issues and still ai problems in stacking armies, but, with a few modifications it's worth it's price now which should be probably less than $20 on ebay.

If anything playing the custom battles alone makes it worth the $20 bucks. You can setup 8 armies now in custom battles and have an 8 way ffa king of the hill or mix and match teams. Quite fun if you have the system to handle 20,000 units on the screen at once.

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 88
RE: hoi2 ? - 2/6/2005 12:44:02 AM   
freeboy

 

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the combat mechanics alone separate this from HOI1, so is it an upgrade or a new game.. wtf do I care really RAVERDUDE this is a fun product, I remember you reeming out RTW too, seems that if games do not fit perfectly into yuor criteria they are junk.. I am a turn based fan, and thing almost all rtw is not my thing.. or crap... all the medievil games.. the first Japan based game.. Shogun and now RTW are fine products.. if you are pissed a paradox for some reason other than HOI being lame, what is it?

< Message edited by freeboy -- 2/6/2005 6:44:26 AM >

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 89
RE: hoi2 ? - 2/6/2005 2:42:47 AM   
rhondabrwn


Posts: 2570
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From: Snowflake, Arizona
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

the combat mechanics alone separate this from HOI1, so is it an upgrade or a new game.. wtf do I care really RAVERDUDE this is a fun product, I remember you reeming out RTW too, seems that if games do not fit perfectly into yuor criteria they are junk.. I am a turn based fan, and thing almost all rtw is not my thing.. or crap... all the medievil games.. the first Japan based game.. Shogun and now RTW are fine products.. if you are pissed a paradox for some reason other than HOI being lame, what is it?


I agree, his comments seem to have this feel of a personal vendetta against the company which distracts from any valid points being made. Therefore, I discount any information or commentary in his posts. Which is sad, because he obviously has lots of ideas and commentary to contribute.

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My old Piczo site seems to be gone, so no more Navajo Nation pics :(

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