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Impact of Leaders in WitP

 
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Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/10/2005 9:46:23 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Gary put together the following lists of the impact of various leader ratings on different aspects of the game. Here it is:

LEADER RATINGS

SKILL:
skill roll by air unit leader effects pilot experience gain

MORALE:
morale Rolls effect number of patrol aircraft that fly
morale Rolls effect number of strike aircraft that fly
morale roll effects land unit fatigue reduction
morale roll effects land unit morale reduction due to fatigue
morale roll effects land unit element disabled due to fatigue
morale roll effects disabled land unit element destroyed due to fatigue
morale roll effects air unit morale recovery
morale roll by HQ leader effects attacking land unit assault value
morale roll by HQ leader effects defending land unit assault value
morale roll by unit leader effects attacking land unit assault value
morale roll by unit leader effects defending land unit assault value

NAVAL:
naval roll by ASW ship commander effects sub search (ASW TFs only)
naval roll by sub captain effects sub contact chance
naval rating by sub captain effects subs chance to survive ASW attack
naval roll by TF commander effects chance of "crossing T" in surface combat
naval roll by TF commander effects chance of attaining surprise in surface combat
naval roll by ship captain effects ship's chance of locating a target during surface combat

AIR:
air roll by group leader effects number of strike aircraft that fly
air roll by air HQ leader effects number of strike aircraft that fly
air roll by air HQ leader effects number of patrol aircraft that fly

LAND:
land roll by HQ leader effects attacking land unit assault value
land roll by HQ leader effects defending land unit assault value
land roll by unit leader effects attacking land unit assault value
land roll by unit leader effects defending land unit assault value
land roll by unit leader effects defending land unit's firing accuracy
land roll by unit leader effects defending land unit's experience gain
land roll by unit leader effects attacking land unit's firing accuracy
land roll by unit leader effects attacking land unit's experience gain
land rating of amphib HQ's leader effects chance of amphib unload success

ADMIN
admin roll by unit leader effects ability to use supply to reduce disruption and fatigue
admin roll by HQ leader effects ability to use support to reduce disruption and fatigue

AGGRESSION
aggression roll by TF commander effects chance of Bombard TF to change mission to Surf-Com
aggression roll by TF commander effects chance TFs will converge more rapidly in Surf-Com
aggression rating of sub captain effects chance of contacting enemy TFs
Post #: 1
RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/10/2005 9:50:14 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		to add a practical example, in case anyone missed it in the Japanse strategy thread)

say you have a IJA Div, Exp 70 with a leader with overall values of 70 attacking a US Regimental Combat team with the same stats...your average modified result in a clear unfortified hex will be 5-7:1 odds.

Change the US leader to 20 and you'll get modified odds about 5-6 times greater. (31-39:1 odds)

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RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/10/2005 10:04:19 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
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From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

morale roll effects land unit fatigue reduction
morale roll effects land unit morale reduction due to fatigue


That's some catch, that Catch-22

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RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/10/2005 10:53:46 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
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From: Purgatory
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quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

quote:

morale roll effects land unit fatigue reduction
morale roll effects land unit morale reduction due to fatigue


That's some catch, that Catch-22



When resting ... how much does fatigue get reduced? (happy with the case of bear, rests well, not happy means less rest as too busy whining)

When working ... how much morale do you loose from being tired? (unhappy will mean even more unhappy, happy workers not affected)

Think about them like that.

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Post #: 4
RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/10/2005 11:09:08 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		I'm not quarrelling, I just find amusement everywhere. I'm lucky that way. Actually I'm very pleased to see this list.

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RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/10/2005 11:09:56 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		Wow. Great stuff! Great, Great stuff!

Any chance we can get similar sort of information on Leadership/Inspiration values? I've never really understood the difference. But I've got in in my head the Leadership trumps Inspiration.

But I've been wrong before. Just ask my wife...



-F-

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RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/11/2005 12:40:57 AM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		That's a very helpful list! I guess I need to pay more attention to leaders. I tend to be lazy about air leader in particular. And I hadn't fully understood this one:

quote:

aggression roll by TF commander effects chance of Bombard TF to change mission to Surf-Com


So *that* explains it.

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Post #: 7
RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/11/2005 12:47:09 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 8
RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/11/2005 1:13:14 AM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline 		Excellent! This is precisely what I've been wanting!

Thanks for posting this, Joel.

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Post #: 9
RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/11/2005 1:14:45 AM   
denisonh


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline 		LMFAO
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi





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Post #: 10
RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/11/2005 3:22:50 AM   
Sonny

 

Posts: 2008
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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi





Fantastic! I love those brilliant commercials.

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"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
ahistorical outcomes. "

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Post #: 11
RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/11/2005 7:32:48 AM   
fbastos


Posts: 827
Joined: 8/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

LEADER RATINGS

SKILL:
skill roll by air unit leader effects pilot experience gain

MORALE:
morale Rolls effect number of patrol aircraft that fly
morale Rolls effect number of strike aircraft that fly...etc...


SKILL = Leadership?
MORALE = Inspiration?

Yes? If so, I would assume that Leadership effects go far beyond the single line "effects pilot experience gain".

F.

< Message edited by fbastos -- 2/11/2005 5:33:25 AM >

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Post #: 12
RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/11/2005 7:34:28 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sonny

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi





Fantastic! I love those brilliant commercials.





Thanks Mog, a great cap to a perfect day.

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Post #: 13
RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/11/2005 2:24:58 PM   
Rainerle

 

Posts: 463
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Burghausen/Bavaria
Status: offline 		Hi,
what about the ranks of the commanders, the characteristics they have (aggressiveness etc.) and what best they are suited for (carrier fleet etc.)? How does the above mentioned combine with the latter ? No, formulas please, just a little bit more insight.

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RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/11/2005 3:22:23 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		I do know that the ranks don't give any actual benefit. The rank only dictates what they can and cannot command (as in, you won't be able to select a CPT to be flag officer for your TF, unless he is it by default, you'll only get the choice of Admirals or whatever, to command the TF).

I'm pretty sure that skill does -not- equal leadership. Skill is a separate rating. If you look in the editor, or some of the xls files available at Spooky's site, you can see the individual skill ratings (in air, land, sea, admin).

Same for moral and inspiration, they are different. Moral is a number that all units have separately, and it fluctuates. If you pull up a leaders "inspiration" rating, it is separate from the units moral rating.

That "best suited for" is telling you what their highest skill rating is (air, land, sea, admin). Now their highest skill rating may still suck, but it's what they're best at.

-F-

< Message edited by Feinder -- 2/11/2005 8:23:31 AM >

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Post #: 15
RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/11/2005 3:47:45 PM   
PeteG662


Posts: 1263
Joined: 6/7/2004
Status: offline 		Now all we have to do is figure out how to keep the leaders where they are supposed to be and all will be right with the world!

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Post #: 16
RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/11/2005 11:08:29 PM   
Oliver Heindorf


Posts: 1911
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Hamburg/Deutschland
Status: offline 		Thank you for the information ! But honestly...this could have done earlier and belongs to the manual imho

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RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/12/2005 1:30:23 AM   
Subchaser


Posts: 1201
Joined: 11/15/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Oliver Heindorf

Thank you for the information ! But honestly...this could have done earlier and belongs to the manual imho


If you’re duly prepared for the game and know everything about it then it will be boring game with unhistorical outcome… you think that those "typos" in the manual regarding production output are real typos… ?

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RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/12/2005 1:34:54 AM   
Subchaser


Posts: 1201
Joined: 11/15/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Gary put together the following lists of the impact of various leader ratings on different aspects of the game. Here it is:

LEADER RATINGS
....
ADMIN
admin roll by unit leader effects ability to use supply to reduce disruption and fatigue
admin roll by HQ leader effects ability to use support to reduce disruption and fatigue
....


I thought, and as I understand it was confirmed by testers, that leaders with high admin ratings significantly speed up repair, but this ability is not listed!? Can someone explain this please?

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RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/12/2005 1:36:02 AM   
bilbow


Posts: 741
Joined: 8/22/2002
From: Concord NH
Status: offline 		Hey Subchaser. Nice map mod. I've been unising it for 2 weeks and won't go back to the original

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RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/12/2005 1:48:25 AM   
Subchaser


Posts: 1201
Joined: 11/15/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bilbow

Hey Subchaser. Nice map mod. I've been unising it for 2 weeks and won't go back to the original


Thanks... it's nice to hear that some players use it.

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Post #: 21
RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/12/2005 4:36:13 AM   
scout1


Posts: 2899
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: South Bend, In
Status: offline
quote:

Thanks... it's nice to hear that some players use it.


Yes, it is a super map. Very eye friendly.

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Post #: 22
RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/12/2005 6:44:01 PM   
Oliver Heindorf


Posts: 1911
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Hamburg/Deutschland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bilbow

Hey Subchaser. Nice map mod. I've been unising it for 2 weeks and won't go back to the original


same here !

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Post #: 23
RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/12/2005 7:41:45 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Subchaser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Gary put together the following lists of the impact of various leader ratings on different aspects of the game. Here it is:

LEADER RATINGS
....
ADMIN
admin roll by unit leader effects ability to use supply to reduce disruption and fatigue
admin roll by HQ leader effects ability to use support to reduce disruption and fatigue
....


I thought, and as I understand it was confirmed by testers, that leaders with high admin ratings significantly speed up repair, but this ability is not listed!? Can someone explain this please?


Dunno if this was actually CONFIRMED - last i heard it was being tested, though.

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Post #: 24
RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/12/2005 8:21:28 PM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline 		Leadership???

Inspiration???

Any word on the effect of these???

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Post #: 25
RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/12/2005 11:14:54 PM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Subchaser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Gary put together the following lists of the impact of various leader ratings on different aspects of the game. Here it is:

LEADER RATINGS
....
ADMIN
admin roll by unit leader effects ability to use supply to reduce disruption and fatigue
admin roll by HQ leader effects ability to use support to reduce disruption and fatigue
....


I thought, and as I understand it was confirmed by testers, that leaders with high admin ratings significantly speed up repair, but this ability is not listed!? Can someone explain this please?


Dunno if this was actually CONFIRMED - last i heard it was being tested, though.


This was my doing. I'm going to test it when I can sit down at my computer more than 5 minutes at a stretch and figure out the editors.

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RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/13/2005 5:55:36 AM   
scout1


Posts: 2899
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: South Bend, In
Status: offline
quote:

That "best suited for" is telling you what their highest skill rating is (air, land, sea, admin). Now their highest skill rating may still suck, but it's what they're best at.


Not necesarily true, but it is the rule rather than the exception. There are a few that are basically equally bad in many respects, but the highest values doesn't guarantee that is what sets the command type.

One question I have from the listing that Joel/Gary put together. It's fairly straight forward as to what you want in an air commander, land commander and surface ship commander. What about a CV commander ? Not many of the examples hit on characteristics that appear to be critical to a flattop driver.

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Post #: 27
RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/13/2005 6:00:24 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Good general skill and non-agressive makes good flattop boss ... you want him to get the jump if closed by a surface group but non-agressive so he runs away asap!

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RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/13/2005 7:00:52 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
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From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Good general skill and non-agressive makes good flattop boss ... you want him to get the jump if closed by a surface group but non-agressive so he runs away asap!


And non aggressive so the AI does not break contact with friendly forces and completely screw the awkward order structure which players are burdened with and tried to organize. Nothing worse than having your CVs (worse still, a portion thereof) break off and abandon their CAP duties to close with the enemy when the players intent was to stay in the same hex. Completely blows the game and in no way can be explained as CO choice.

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Post #: 29
RE: Impact of Leaders in WitP - 2/13/2005 7:36:23 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, I wonder why those things only happen to some players and not to others.
I have never had a CV TF run off to fight unless that it what I wanted it to do. (Yes I use the CV react order and also used it in UV)

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