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Campaign/PBEM ? - 2/10/2005 7:17:02 PM   
Spenser

 

Posts: 81
Joined: 7/5/2002
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Hi !

Is it possible somehow to play a campaign by pbem, where one player
plays the AIs side ? I believe i read an AAR some time ago where someone did this
but i may be wrong.

Spenser
Post #: 1
RE: Campaign/PBEM ? - 2/10/2005 8:22:32 PM   
IBTyrone


Posts: 432
Joined: 7/29/2003
From: Kentucky, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Spenser,

Campaigns can only be designed to be one-player. What you may be thinking of is M4Jess's operation Sealion which he designed as a user-campaign, but I believe he also released a set of stand alone sequential scenarios balanced for PBEM play. You might check with Jess.

(in reply to Spenser)
Post #: 2
RE: Campaign/PBEM ? - 2/14/2005 11:52:16 AM   
Inuil


Posts: 52
Joined: 2/28/2001
From: Alicante. España.
Status: offline 		Hi Spenser. Really you can play a campaing like PMEM in separates scens and you can linked it... (sorry by my bad english) I have done it with my friends and works pretty well.
The real problem are in the desing of the campaings. Usually the designer asign more troops (points) to the AI side, because like all know the AI routines are predictables and can´t compare with a human thinker. to compensate this normally overstreng it.
By this, if the overstreng AI side are managed by a human the problem are bigger... overstreng side + umpredictable human inteligence = really a difficult work to win.
We resolve this problem by an agreement. The human play with the original AI side try to manage it with some particular rules. If you are interested in it. I will try to explain it in other comment.
I hope this can help you a little.

Bye my friend.

_____________________________

"Un soldado, es el hombre que se interpone entre el enemigo y su familia"
"A soldier is a man between enemy and his family"
Greek Words 1500bc
Pascual Navarro.

(in reply to Spenser)
Post #: 3
RE: Campaign/PBEM ? - 2/15/2005 11:26:04 PM   
Spenser

 

Posts: 81
Joined: 7/5/2002
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Thanks for your input guys!

It was something like Inuil is describing i was thinking about. I am testing with the Russian Steel campaign and i believe it will work but i would like to know what you mean when you say you can link the separate scenarios? Is there a better and quicker way than manually editing the core units experience and morale before each new scenario that i was planning to do ?
I also realise the problem with a human opponent instead of the AI so i will increase the size of the core force as well as the repair and support points by a yet undecided percentage, but i am also interested in your particular "human AI" rules and if you have any other hints.

Spenser

(in reply to Inuil)
Post #: 4
RE: Campaign/PBEM ? - 2/16/2005 2:00:49 PM   
Inuil


Posts: 52
Joined: 2/28/2001
From: Alicante. España.
Status: offline 		Hi Spenser.
I will try to explain with my limited english all I do to play campaings in PBEM.

- We normally (never) increase our core force, to avoid problems in the future (bail out crews for example, and unbalanced escenarios) we only increasing with the campaing editor the rebuilt points (never the reinforcement for the same case of core forces) normaly a 33% more or you decide by the precedent scen was an assault or... but in 70% of nodes normally 33%. this is the only thing we change in the sistem... the other ways are human rules for our opponent. And normally to do the game more hard... a real combat!

- First rule and probably the most important... the human AI never move a unit until arrive the turn it was programed to do it. (many units are in map at start, but are sleeping until the turn are programed to start movement arrive) this is true too to airplanes and programed artillery... be carefull with this, this can unbalanced a lot the win probabilities.

- the second have less weigth in game but are important too. The human AI never are free to move units in the direction he like until the original objetive flag of a formation are reached. (the movemnt AI objetive flags, not the victory points flags) then he is free to move, stand or everything he like to do with this units. Any time a formation reaches his objetive movement flag , it are at free disposal of the AI. with this rule the human AI can´t exploit from the first moment his (usually) numerical superiority, and during normally 1/3 - 1/2 game go in the original paths the designer of the scen-campaing was in mind. (I hate my bad english, sorry)
For example, not is posible for human AI stop or hide for some turns units without reached his initial objetive flag. Only is admited cautiously advance in cover or a logical-minimal flanking maneuver to aproaching to his objetive (this was common sense rule) if you like to refine more the rule.... mmmmm... try with this. Not is posible to human AI take a objetive flag in the way of the 3 opposite exes the formation start.

My god! this will be a papirus.... lol...

- third. the human AI try to imitate the national actitudes of his nation... example... russian infantry masses... very, very concentrated artillery. In other words trying to do a national flavor to carnage.. lol this will be a little revenge for his rigid rules...

there are many more... ammo depots and truck usage...what happend when the AI was in the defender side of a scen? I normally use a simple rule... anits with movement objetive flag (see rule 2 of this letter) and more important... units in static defensive position = not are free to move until are retreated from his original exe by enemy ground atack. never by artillery o airplane atack. In this case the unit try to return to his original position as soon is posible.
The original pre plot artillery and air strikes can´t be changed until it done his first atack.. etc... many, many more... apply common sense.

uf uf uf...

and now and finally how to play it.
first start the game, select the two sides like human players, buy your hamburger core force and start first turn. when you start and after suffer all sky disgraces you received from the top (artillery and planes) play and finish your turn... then the sistem ask to you to save it in a slot, select it, and save. send it to your comrade and so on... Obbiously, the sistem don´t ask about a code for any player... but remenber. the human side always will win, if not the game ends. your HQ unit never will die or the campaing ends. and this is a agreement play the unability of pasword not is a problem... you will play for fun not for win (this is more exact for the human AI , LOL).
I hope you understand me and enjoy my friend.

_____________________________

"Un soldado, es el hombre que se interpone entre el enemigo y su familia"
"A soldier is a man between enemy and his family"
Greek Words 1500bc
Pascual Navarro.

(in reply to Spenser)
Post #: 5
RE: Campaign/PBEM ? - 2/16/2005 3:51:06 PM   
IBTyrone


Posts: 432
Joined: 7/29/2003
From: Kentucky, USA
Status: offline 		Great post, Inuil! I have never seen anyone make a post about how to play a campaign as a PBEM. The one other component I did not see in your post is something about having a cooperative human opponent. Seeing as how playing a campaign as a PBEM is not what you would call a "normal" PBEM setup, it would take some negotiation and understanding with your human opponent to ensure that things were fair for both sides.

(in reply to Inuil)
Post #: 6
RE: Campaign/PBEM ? - 2/16/2005 9:25:38 PM   
Inuil


Posts: 52
Joined: 2/28/2001
From: Alicante. España.
Status: offline 		thanks tyrone, yes, but the question is simple in my opinion.
The player who manage the AI forces normaly have various parameters that clear him from many questions.
----Alwais lost---- (if not, end campaing excep if it is reworked in nodes. Not very practic because the core force normally has been erased) then, his motivation will be fun, really fun with his friend... the better objetive he could done is put his friend in trouble situation, but not more. then enjoy only.
In my personal way, I have played last year with a good friend of my city, but by mail. with common sense and little bit rules the enjoy is guaranteed.
Obbiously to play with more "beligerant" comrades of the comiunity the question are not so easy.

I have never try it with any other people but his motivation not will be very different in any way.
" the AI player will be a dummy player in some aspects", (finally he lost always) but this are very far to be a disliked situation finally. I have in the two sides, like player and like AI... in the two sides and I have found many good times.

< Message edited by Inuil -- 2/16/2005 7:28:07 PM >

_____________________________

"Un soldado, es el hombre que se interpone entre el enemigo y su familia"
"A soldier is a man between enemy and his family"
Greek Words 1500bc
Pascual Navarro.

(in reply to IBTyrone)
Post #: 7
RE: Campaign/PBEM ? - 2/16/2005 11:14:48 PM   
IBTyrone


Posts: 432
Joined: 7/29/2003
From: Kentucky, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Inuil
In my personal way, I have played last year with a good friend of my city, but by mail. with common sense and little bit rules the enjoy is guaranteed.
Obbiously to play with more "beligerant" comrades of the comiunity the question are not so easy.


I was wondering if that was your situation. To do it well, I think it would involve some trust on both sides that you wouldn't necessarily find with someone as easily over the Internet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Inuil
I have never try it with any other people but his motivation not will be very different in any way.
" the AI player will be a dummy player in some aspects", (finally he lost always) but this are very far to be a disliked situation finally. I have in the two sides, like player and like AI... in the two sides and I have found many good times.


And having a good time is the ultimate goal, isn't it?

(in reply to Inuil)
Post #: 8
RE: Campaign/PBEM ? - 2/17/2005 11:32:27 AM   
Inuil


Posts: 52
Joined: 2/28/2001
From: Alicante. España.
Status: offline 		Yes!

If somebody like, I will be the dummy AI (really not so dummy... lol) because the objetive of this figure is put in trouble the other side.

Bye.

_____________________________

"Un soldado, es el hombre que se interpone entre el enemigo y su familia"
"A soldier is a man between enemy and his family"
Greek Words 1500bc
Pascual Navarro.

(in reply to IBTyrone)
Post #: 9
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