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Hey! Czech it out. - 2/16/2005 4:49:11 PM   
Poopyhead

 

Posts: 612
Joined: 3/17/2004
Status: offline 		Sorry for the pun. In my long campaign as the Germans, it is March 1942. I had upgraded my 37 mm guns to the 50 mm PAK only to find out that the much better 75 mm PAK was tucked away inside the Czech OOB. I did some looking around in the Czech OOB and found a really neat toy, the 60 cm siege mortar! That's right boys and girls, 60 CENTIMETERS, as in 24 inches. For about a hundred points each, I can upgrade my sIG's to these monsters. They have a penetration of over 240 and are (strangely) fast response artillery. Of course, I am not going to keep them. I believe they were meant to be on a railway car doing urban renewal in Sevastopol. Or they might work well in Stalingrad (note to self). Also, the Czech OOB offered the early Tiger about eight months before it was available. I only have 8.0, so perhaps this has been corrected.

< Message edited by Poopyhead -- 2/21/2005 2:16:49 PM >

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RE: Hey! Czech it out. - 2/16/2005 11:09:55 PM   
IBTyrone


Posts: 432
Joined: 7/29/2003
From: Kentucky, USA
Status: offline 		That's the Thor, right? I was trying to track it down a few weeks ago when I was doing tests on blowing up stone bridges and couldn't find it in the Norway OOB. Thanks for pointing it out.

BTW, that 50mm PAK is one nice gun. In the Spanish OOB it has a size of 0, but everywhere else it has a size of 1. I've noticed other discrepancies with the same gun from country to country (most Axis-related countries except Italy have it in their OOB) as it packs great punch for a small AT gun.

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Post #: 2
RE: Hey! Czech it out. - 2/17/2005 5:42:35 AM   
minefield


Posts: 289
Joined: 3/25/2004
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah if you hunt around in the minor nations you can find some real neat stuff. Sometimes you will find a tank that is cheaper (check out India's 76mm Sherman priced as a 75mm). When I used to play some guys Online with 'no holds bar', I would always see Tiger 2 and Panther 2 tanks from Czech on the battlefield.

The Sturmmörser or SturmTiger was another one of those weapons that wasn't really meant to be used as it is in SP:WaW. The 'siege cannon', I believe, was intended for siege assaults against fortifications as was the SturmTiger (yeah I know the SturmTiger actually did kill some Shermans once but what is that saying? :)

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RE: Hey! Czech it out. - 2/17/2005 4:33:36 PM   
Poopyhead

 

Posts: 612
Joined: 3/17/2004
Status: offline 		Yes it is the "Thor" and it's available for the Stalingrad scenario. You can have them for core force artillery support or get a battery of off-board for 255.

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RE: Hey! Czech it out. - 2/17/2005 6:13:58 PM   
IBTyrone


Posts: 432
Joined: 7/29/2003
From: Kentucky, USA
Status: offline 		Minefield, I've wandered around the minor countries OOBs a few times looking for bargains. When I played Flash's "Raiders of the Sahara" campaign, I purchased some Indian bren carriers with 3in mortars because they were cheaper than the brit version for basically the same thing. That "no holds barred" situation sounds frightening!

Poopyhead--thanks for the clarification. I'll remember that the next time I need a 600mm mortar for "testing."

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Post #: 5
RE: Hey! Czech it out. - 2/18/2005 3:36:25 AM   
minefield


Posts: 289
Joined: 3/25/2004
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		'no holds barred' is the only time you'll see a company of tiger 2's supported by a company of cavalry and a company of bicycle troops

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Post #: 6
RE: Hey! Czech it out. - 2/18/2005 5:09:44 AM   
KNomad


Posts: 339
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: Buffalo, NY USA
Status: offline 		OK - now I'm curious ....

Besides Hungary, Bulgaria & Romania (historical Axis minor allies) - what other countires could I draw forces from for the Axis? Czech, Finland? What about using captured equipment from conquered countries? Also, what time of availability would be appropriate (for each nation) to use these forces?

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Post #: 7
RE: Hey! Czech it out. - 2/18/2005 6:57:27 AM   
JediMessiah

 

Posts: 157
Joined: 3/1/2001
From: Elmhurst, Il, USA
Status: offline 		norway, yugoslavia and italy

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RE: Hey! Czech it out. - 2/18/2005 4:01:18 PM   
IBTyrone


Posts: 432
Joined: 7/29/2003
From: Kentucky, USA
Status: offline 		Nationalist Spain has the extra stuff for Italy that doesn't fit into the Italian OOB. Similar to the Czech OOB for Germany. There's also some SS troops in there as well as other Axis equipment such as the 50mm PAK AT gun I mentioned earlier.

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Post #: 9
RE: Hey! Czech it out. - 2/18/2005 4:20:16 PM   
Poopyhead

 

Posts: 612
Joined: 3/17/2004
Status: offline 		Actually Knomad, the Germans have so much stuff (like the Thor and the 75 mm PAK), that some of it has been placed in other nation's OOB's. It's still German. You just have to look around. Robot did a thread about when certain Axis allies become available.
Also, I was right about the siege mortar needing a railway car. It's too big even for the Russian super truck. So put Thor where he will be comfortable, he's immobile.

< Message edited by Poopyhead -- 2/18/2005 2:28:03 PM >

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Post #: 10
RE: Hey! Czech it out. - 2/18/2005 9:46:12 PM   
Riun T

 

Posts: 1848
Joined: 7/31/2004
Status: offline 		Glad to hear that I'm not the only one to do less than historically possible combinations with other nations equipment one of my favorite latest finagalings is to put a couple of the Italian ATR's [20mm is soo much more than the .55 cal. boys ATR] in with some Para's or commandos to cause kaos behind the lines,also adding the fact that I droped them in Italian and german gliders. I give myself the only rule that the equipment I procure has to be represenitive of the year it was truly released, and its got to be salvaged from the battle of the nation u just fought or in the case right now that its only Allied to my force historicly. I wish that the game would display the true morale and supression these forces would really feel in seeing a fielded force of their own equipment coming to bare against them, In one of the scenarios in the battle of the bulge series i think it was called TASK FORCE WILDER the germans dress a bunch of panthers up as wolverines, AS a military man myself being able under battle conditions to garenteedly identify and recognize an enemy as a friendly that may be mistakenly retreating infront of you is a nightmare to any of us who have seen combat.

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Post #: 11
RE: Hey! Czech it out. - 2/20/2005 12:47:54 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Guys, you should thank Rockin Harry and several others for embedding these scenario designer and other units into the database. We wanted to give flexibility to scenario designers, as we knew this was the last chance to do it as an "official" Matrix issue.

As far as I'm concerned, "official" is only an issue for PBEM players. If you guys want a definitive PBEM version , then go with the Depot version. The votes have been tallied--has it been released yet?

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Post #: 12
RE: Hey! Czech it out. - 2/20/2005 2:46:14 AM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		The votes have been tallied on only a few nations. All of the major and most minor will be done. The goal is uniformity (same tank in one nation has the same stats as the same tank in another nation), obvious errors (towable artillery with an untowable weight rating), and correcting incorrect data. These are all easy things to do, but take time for everyone to discuss and vote on (since all members may vote). Several nations are in the Voting Booth right now, severel are done, and 5 or so are now open for discussion.

It should be noted that our version is not a 'PBEM' version, but a version where needed changes are being done. That benefits everyone, not one style of player, which is how it should be. All changes are brought up by all kinds of players, which definately is a boon.


Goblin

< Message edited by Goblin -- 2/19/2005 11:18:50 PM >

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Post #: 13
RE: Hey! Czech it out. - 2/20/2005 8:11:45 PM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info, Goblin. My personal OOB mod set has adopted many of the changes you guys suggested, including the new vehicle icons (very cool, indeed). I'm also happy you voted "yes" on some of my USMC updates.

BTW, I did a few more changes to that OOB, and I sent a copy of it to a couple of guys. I changed a few availablity dates, unit prices and weapons, plus switched out some of the pics with the ones from Panzer Leo's H2H version. I did the same for the Germans, so these are hybrids from four different sets of OOBs (Matrix 8.3, the Depot, Panzer Leo & my own research). For those solo players who have the patience to do it, it's worth the effort.

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Post #: 14
RE: Hey! Czech it out. - 2/22/2005 6:32:19 PM   
Poopyhead

 

Posts: 612
Joined: 3/17/2004
Status: offline 		As a follow up on IBTyrone's comment about finding cheap unit's in other nation's OOB's, they may not always be a bargain. The Indian unit probably has less experience and skill than the identical English unit, making it cheaper to get. So you get a "raw recruit" version of your favorite unit.

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Post #: 15
RE: Hey! Czech it out. - 2/23/2005 1:10:43 PM   
JustACelt

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: La Center , Washington
Status: offline 		JustforCuriositys sake I thought I had read somewhere that the germans during wwII when they had captured soviet t34 tanks had upgraded there sighting optics and accuracy which in a sense would make the captured t34s different from the russians.

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Post #: 16
Cheap Sherman - 3/4/2005 3:47:17 AM   
minefield


Posts: 289
Joined: 3/25/2004
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Poopyhead

As a follow up on IBTyrone's comment about finding cheap unit's in other nation's OOB's, they may not always be a bargain. The Indian unit probably has less experience and skill than the identical English unit, making it cheaper to get. So you get a "raw recruit" version of your favorite unit.


Cheap Sherman




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 17
RE: Cheap Sherman - 3/4/2005 3:47:42 AM   
minefield


Posts: 289
Joined: 3/25/2004
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		US Army Sherman




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Post #: 18
RE: Cheap Sherman - 3/4/2005 6:37:19 PM   
Poopyhead

 

Posts: 612
Joined: 3/17/2004
Status: offline 		Minefield, I understood IBTyrone to mean two identical tanks that had a "price" difference by nation. The U.S. Sherman above has more armor, a different gun and probably several other features that account for the difference in cost (which may also include a difference in experience and skill between national crews).

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Post #: 19
RE: Cheap Sherman - 3/4/2005 7:31:15 PM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		The cost in the editor is the base cost before factoring in True-Troop.

These two tanks still should have been much closer. I know where I'm buying my 76 armed M4's from now on, lol.

Didja see the Panther with the 37mm gun instead of one of its MG's. I think its in the French OOB. I love the little extra fire-power...


Goblin

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RE: Cheap Sherman - 3/4/2005 10:18:31 PM   
minefield


Posts: 289
Joined: 3/25/2004
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Poopyhead

Minefield, I understood IBTyrone to mean two identical tanks that had a "price" difference by nation. The U.S. Sherman above has more armor, a different gun and probably several other features that account for the difference in cost (which may also include a difference in experience and skill between national crews).


Picky picky picky...


edit: Before you pick this one apart, yes it does have a different gun. I can't find another 76 with the exact specs because there isn't supposed to be another 76 with those specs. The Free France tank has the wrong gun.

So consider this an example of 'the same tank with a helluva lot better gun'.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by minefield -- 3/4/2005 3:28:36 PM >

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RE: Cheap Sherman - 3/4/2005 10:26:01 PM   
minefield


Posts: 289
Joined: 3/25/2004
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Goblin

The cost in the editor is the base cost before factoring in True-Troop.

These two tanks still should have been much closer. I know where I'm buying my 76 armed M4's from now on, lol.

Didja see the Panther with the 37mm gun instead of one of its MG's. I think its in the French OOB. I love the little extra fire-power...



Goblin


The 37mm fires a special 'message' round. After you climb out of the burning wreck that used to be your tank, you hear this voice in German, "You've just been ownorzed!!!!!oneoneone




Attachment (1)

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RE: Cheap Sherman - 3/5/2005 12:07:15 AM   
mosh

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 3/1/2005
Status: offline 		Boys are having fun, -uh?

remember then to backup everything you are intended to edit. I'll suggest that when your inner "Monsterous Editorialis" gets loose, you'll do second installation of SpwawXX, and have fun with other, and play multiplayergames/MCs Only with other installation. At its best I've had seven differend version, nine installations, and you can imagine how hard it is to remember wich was wich, but demand comes first, then compatibility...

just thought of warning...

salute

mosh aka skukko

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Post #: 23
RE: Cheap Sherman - 3/5/2005 1:54:40 AM   
Poopyhead

 

Posts: 612
Joined: 3/17/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah Goblin, that Panther is sweet!

Sorry if I pushed your buttons, Minefield. I wasn't trying to cross you.

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Warriors know that your future is determined on the day that your enemy dies.

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Post #: 24
RE: Cheap Sherman - 3/5/2005 3:37:22 AM   
minefield


Posts: 289
Joined: 3/25/2004
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mosh

Boys are having fun, -uh?

remember then to backup everything you are intended to edit. I'll suggest that when your inner "Monsterous Editorialis" gets loose, you'll do second installation of SpwawXX, and have fun with other, and play multiplayergames/MCs Only with other installation. At its best I've had seven differend version, nine installations, and you can imagine how hard it is to remember wich was wich, but demand comes first, then compatibility...

just thought of warning...

salute

mosh aka skukko


LOL best post ever. Those are REAL IN THE GAME UNITS!

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RE: Cheap Sherman - 3/5/2005 3:37:52 AM   
minefield


Posts: 289
Joined: 3/25/2004
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Poopyhead

Yeah Goblin, that Panther is sweet!

Sorry if I pushed your buttons, Minefield. I wasn't trying to cross you.


Nah should've put a *smile* at the end of that post. We're cool.

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RE: Cheap Sherman - 3/5/2005 3:49:27 AM   
skukko


Posts: 1928
Joined: 10/24/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Yeah, I did notice what they are.

Are you going to use them, or are you going to change them?
"To pbem or not to pbem?" -hamlet

salute

mosh

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mosh

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Post #: 27
RE: Cheap Sherman - 3/5/2005 3:52:25 AM   
minefield


Posts: 289
Joined: 3/25/2004
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: skukko

Yeah, I did notice what they are.

Are you going to use them, or are you going to change them?
"To pbem or not to pbem?" -hamlet

salute

mosh


Ehh? I'm not going to use them because they are screwed up units. I can't change them because this is the final release of the game; if I change my OOBs then I can't play with anyone with the standard v8.3 OOBs.

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Post #: 28
RE: Cheap Sherman - 3/5/2005 6:02:04 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		While I understand the value of PBEM play, I still would rather tweak the OOBs to my personal liking and play against the AI, such as it is. There are ways to improve its force selection (via the editor). I'm just an obsessive with historical force selections, so forgive me. The "gaminess" of PBEM play just doesn't appeal to me, but to each his own.

As of now, I can play a USMC vs Japan long campaign that will offer me challenges. I gotta thank Major Destruction for his work on the Japanese--in 8.3 they are some tough opponents.

My next objective is to tweak the AI forces vs the Germans in a long campaign setting. The Poles are pretty good already. I'm not sure about the other Allied countries, yet. Any hints would be appreciated.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 3/4/2005 11:07:01 PM >

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Post #: 29
RE: Cheap Sherman - 3/5/2005 6:18:26 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: minefield

quote:

ORIGINAL: skukko

Yeah, I did notice what they are.

Are you going to use them, or are you going to change them?
"To pbem or not to pbem?" -hamlet

salute

mosh


Ehh? I'm not going to use them because they are screwed up units. I can't change them because this is the final release of the game; if I change my OOBs then I can't play with anyone with the standard v8.3 OOBs.


Minefield, I would think that in a PBEM match, one would be limited to choosing units from the nation they represent, as opposed to picking & choosing from the various nations. This is what I meant about "gaminess". Do you want a reasonably historical matchup, which is what SPWAW is all about, or a "fantasy" game?

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