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Important: Major OOB British DD armament error

 
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Important: Major OOB British DD armament error - 2/28/2005 9:50:16 PM   
SpitfireIX


Posts: 264
Joined: 1/9/2003
From: Fort Wayne IN USA
Status: offline 		Hello, all--

Sorry if this has already been metioned, but I haven't had much time to read the forum lately, with school and work. I just noticed that in Scenario 15 V1.4 the armament for the British "J" class destroyers is totally wrong--it should be 2x2 4.7"/45 MK XII forward and 1x2 MK XII center (the aft mount could not fire into the arc 20 degrees astern). I don't have my Jane's handy (I just moved, and it's still packed up) but there are several sites on the net where this is discussed.

Also, I'm fairly sure that the armament for the "P"class is wrong, too--I believe these had 4x1 4.7"/45s.

I think that there may have been some confusion here with the "L" class Block 1, which had 4x2 4" dp guns, and the "O" class minelayer variant, which had 4x1 4" sp guns.

I'd appreciate it if someone who has more time and access to reference materials would confirm this--I have spring break next week, but I hope this problem can still be corrected in 1.5, so I wanted to at least say something about it now.

_____________________________

"I know Japanese. He is very bad. And tricky. But we Americans too smart. We catch him and give him hell."

--Benny Sablan, crewman, USS Enterprise 12/7/41
Post #: 1
RE: Important: Major OOB British DD armament error - 3/6/2005 2:43:55 AM   
SpitfireIX


Posts: 264
Joined: 1/9/2003
From: Fort Wayne IN USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpitfireIX

Hello, all--

Sorry if this has already been metioned, but I haven't had much time to read the forum lately, with school and work. I just noticed that in Scenario 15 V1.4 the armament for the British "J" class destroyers is totally wrong--it should be 2x2 4.7"/45 MK XII forward and 1x2 MK XII center (the aft mount could not fire into the arc 20 degrees astern). I don't have my Jane's handy (I just moved, and it's still packed up) but there are several sites on the net where this is discussed.

Also, I'm fairly sure that the armament for the "P"class is wrong, too--I believe these had 4x1 4.7"/45s.

I think that there may have been some confusion here with the "L" class Block 1, which had 4x2 4" dp guns, and the "O" class minelayer variant, which had 4x1 4" sp guns.

I'd appreciate it if someone who has more time and access to reference materials would confirm this--I have spring break next week, but I hope this problem can still be corrected in 1.5, so I wanted to at least say something about it now.


My apologies for posting this in the general forum--I thought the OOB Issues thread had been removed because it was too late to submit new issues for the next patch--I see now that it's been relocated. That's what happens when you're too busy with work and school plus you don't have Internet access for six weeks. :-(

_____________________________

"I know Japanese. He is very bad. And tricky. But we Americans too smart. We catch him and give him hell."

--Benny Sablan, crewman, USS Enterprise 12/7/41

(in reply to SpitfireIX)
Post #: 2
RE: Important: Major OOB British DD armament error - 3/6/2005 3:52:45 AM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline 		Hi SpitfireIX

I'm working on the Combined Historical Scenario. I can make the fixes there but not in the standard Matrix scenarios - so I am answering your post here instead of the OOB thread.

'J' Class
You are absolutely correct. The 'J', 'K", and 'N' classes were built with six 4.7in/Mk XII (low angle) in three triple turrets - two forward and one aft. They later had one of their sets of torpedo tubes replaced with a 4in/45 QF Mk V. "After 1942" the 4in was removed and the TT replaced.

However I can find no reference to blind stern arcs for the after twin-mount and photographs appear to show it mounted on the after deckhouse with no visable blockages aft. These ships normally carried 45 Depth Charges and I will adjust depth charge ammo as well.


'P' Class
Both Lenton and Conway agree that the 'P' class were ordered with four 4in/45 QF Mk V.

The preceeding 'O' class had been ordered with four single 4.7in/45 QF MK IX (low angle guns) but had been altered to four 4in/45 Mk V High Angle guns (except for four units fitted for minelaying, three 4in/45).

The 'P' were then either ordered or changed to four 4in/45 QF Mk V and a fifth 4in/45 replaced one bank of torpedo tubes. This gives the armament as specified for the initial 'P' class - class 292. Four units in the Eastern fleet later had their second bank of torpedo tubes replaced and the extra 4/45 removed.

All in all Matrix is about right on these but I will adjust the late-1943 upgrade to reflect the replacement of the torpedoes. While looking this up I also noticed that these vessels carried 70 depth charges in two racks and four throwers and I think I'll adjust this as well.


So:
'J' Class will initially have six 4.7 LA (4x2 F, 2x2 R) plus 1 4/45 AA centerline and 5 TT (class 291), then six 4.7 and 10 TT (class 1437)
'P' Class will have five 4/45 HA (2x1 F, 1x1 C, 2x1 R) and 5 TT until 12/43 (class 292), then four 4in and 10 TT (class 1438)

(in reply to SpitfireIX)
Post #: 3
RE: Important: Major OOB British DD armament error - 3/6/2005 4:07:36 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Hi SpitfireIX

I'm working on the Combined Historical Scenario. I can make the fixes there but not in the standard Matrix scenarios - so I am answering your post here instead of the OOB thread.

'J' Class
You are absolutely correct. The 'J', 'K", and 'N' classes were built with six 4.7in/Mk XII (low angle) in three triple turrets - two forward and one aft. They later had one of their sets of torpedo tubes replaced with a 4in/45 QF Mk V. "After 1942" the 4in was removed and the TT replaced.



Do you mean 3 twin?

< Message edited by Tankerace -- 3/5/2005 8:07:42 PM >

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 4
RE: Important: Major OOB British DD armament error - 3/6/2005 4:11:54 AM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Hi SpitfireIX

I'm working on the Combined Historical Scenario. I can make the fixes there but not in the standard Matrix scenarios - so I am answering your post here instead of the OOB thread.

'J' Class
You are absolutely correct. The 'J', 'K", and 'N' classes were built with six 4.7in/Mk XII (low angle) in three triple turrets - two forward and one aft. They later had one of their sets of torpedo tubes replaced with a 4in/45 QF Mk V. "After 1942" the 4in was removed and the TT replaced.



Do you mean 3 twin?


Ah, er, stammer - Yes (blush)

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 5
RE: Important: Major OOB British DD armament error - 3/6/2005 4:24:09 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		Man, I'd love to con a tin can with 12 guns tough.... That'd be sweet!

Eit: 9 guns. Now I can't add

< Message edited by Tankerace -- 3/5/2005 8:26:00 PM >

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 6
RE: Important: Major OOB British DD armament error - 3/6/2005 6:56:59 AM   
Tiornu

 

Posts: 1126
Joined: 4/1/2004
Status: offline 		the kellys entered service with that blind arc aft, but this was not a permanent feature. common sense eventually prevailed, and the aft mount was repositioned to face aft. the change was relatively uncomplicated.
apologies for the no-caps--broken collarbone making typing a chore.

(in reply to SpitfireIX)
Post #: 7
RE: Important: Major OOB British DD armament error - 3/6/2005 6:58:03 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		Broken collarbone? What did you do?

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to Tiornu)
Post #: 8
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