Canuck's Revenge - ADavidB vs PzB (Wobbly's game continued)

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> After Action Reports >> Canuck's Revenge - ADavidB vs PzB (Wobbly's game continued)

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Canuck's Revenge - ADavidB vs PzB (Wobbly's game contin... - 3/5/2005 12:18:53 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

Okay, it's July 8, 1942 and thanks to the kindness of PzB (John) I am now in charge of the Pacific Theatre. My job is to take over from my valiant Kiwi colleague and find a way to turn around this War. My first task will be to be certain that I can deliver enough Carling Black Label and Pabst Blue Ribbon to our valiant fighting forces to revive their fighting spirits!

I will be operating under "no peek" rules - I won't look at PzB's AAR and he won't peek at mine. This way I can put down my thoughts and ideas. Any comments, criticisms, suggestions and so on from the peanut gallery are gladly welcomed. Here is my assessment of the situation prior to the first turn that I sent to PzB.

Situation Assessment - Eastern and Central Pacific:

You can hear the gentle sound of tiny splashes of anchovies at the surface of the still ocean water thanks to the fact that there are almost no ships at all to be found in the West Coast ports or even Pearl Harbor. Nor are there many planes around to disturb the sounds of the gulls in the air. The "cupboard is bare" as far as shipping and air power goes - everything has been sent West. Surprisingly, there are some useful land units that have been left behind. But there is nothing around to transport them in, so they aren't going anywhere soon.

This situation leaves me feeling very vulnerable, so the first thing I have done is to give new orders to all those task forces that are currently steaming towards distant Australia to go at full speed to the nearest port. Sending troops into battle without the ability to supply them or their ships is an invitation to doom and I would rather have a few well-supplied troops and planes than lots of forces starving in isolation.

I've also started to set up a more comprehensive air patrol arrangement. If PzB already has or implements in the near future an aggressive submarine-based anti-shipping campaign in the Eastern and Central Pacific I will be in really big trouble because most of the transport task forces that are currently steaming ever-so-slowly to the southwest have no ASW with them.

Wobbly did grab the Gilberts, which does allow me to send task forces east and west without having to make too much of a detour due to Japanese LBA, but everything currently rests upon the forces in Tawara standing up to assaults by sea and air. I don't like having unsupported forces in vulnerable positions, so I am trying to set up some "defence in depth" to limit PzB's ability to knock out everything with one lucky blow. Fortunately there are some forces onboard ships in nearby transport TFs that will allow me to start to set up a defence, but it won't be to my liking for quite some time.

BTW - if you are wondering why I am speaking of "defence" in this situation and not "offence", it is because my most pressing need at the moment is to have the Gilberts act as a limit to PzB's ability to project force into the South Central Pacific. I have no forces available for any offensive operations in this theatre, and the only real reserve I have are four Northern Pacific RCTs that are stuck on the West Coast without any transport and are thus anything but a "mobile" reserve.

There is only one surface combat task force in the theatre, lead by a 20 knot BB. I don't like using 20 knot BBs in surface combat TFs. They are too slow and limit my ability to project force quickly and precisely. I will have to reconfigure this SC TF and make it into as lean and responsive a fighting force as I can.

But my ability to use any TF in the area is severely limited because of a lack of fuel in the locations where I need it. I am resorting to stationing AKs at "dot" islands so that I can do a "refuel at sea" in order to give my ships enough fuel to reach ports that do have fuel. Redistributing fuel in the Eastern and Central Pacific will be my number one priority and there is a severe local shortage of any ships that can carry fuel.

Situation Assessment - South Pacific:

Wobbly has started the foundation for a solid presence in the South Pacific. He has Lunga and other Eastern Solomons bases, but the situation is similar to that in the Gilberts. All of the Allied "eggs" rest upon Lunga holding and it is low in supplies and without fuel.

Once again, there is one combat TF in the theatre anchored by a 20-knot BB. I will be taking the same approach here as I am in the Gilberts. I will set up a fast combat TF to provide striking power and attempt to redistribute fuel, supplies and troops in order to set up a more mutually-supporting defence. A shortage of transport ships is again my number one problem here.

Once again, I don't anticipate starting any major offensive operations in this area - I just want to stabilize it so that PzB can't easily interfere with my shipping. There are more troops and bases in this area, and we aren't looking at atoll assaults, so I am hoping that any counterattacks by PzB will become bogged down in land fighting for a long enough time to allow me to build up my support infrastructure.

There are some transport task forces in this theatre, including a big fuel TF that was set to go to Australia. I'm diverting it and will split it up into individual ship task forces in order to put fuel in the various island bases that sit between New Caledonia and the Gilberts. I like to make certain that I have "supplies in depth" along all of my travel routes. A well-fueled and well-supplied task force can move farther, faster and more effectively than one that is limping along "in the red".

Situation Assessment - Eastern Australia and PNG:

The Allies hold Port Moresby, but in reality there are little in the way of significant forces or support in this theatre. There is one big fuel TF that is on its way to PM via the route that allows the Japanese LBA to get the most shots at it. I have diverted it to Australia. I don't intend to sustain naval operations out of PM, and therefore don't need extra fuel there. Nor do I want to give PzB's LBA more "free shots" then they deserve at what shipping I do have.

My biggest worry is the lack of base force air support in the Eastern Australian bases. I can't support the quantities of bombers and fighters that I want in order to keep PzB away from the shores of Australia, or to pound targets such as Gili-Gili. PM will be a pain to supply, but the forces there aren't bad, so I'll leave things put for a while, although I may stop trying to run a bombing campaign from there - level bombing uses up too much supply.

Again, there is no shipping around locally worth speaking of, nor any combat ships. I am trying to accumulate what is around in Brisbane to start to ship it to the East. If PzB happens to do some ship-based raiding I have in reality nothing to stop him.

The air forces in Eastern and Southern Australia are a motley mix - mainly Dutch and British escapees from the original fall of the DEI. Unfortunately, because there is little in the way of supply available, I can't even upgrade most of those planes to anything useful. Once again, this demonstrates why I am so insistent upon having a good, solid supply chain. It's a game-month to bring supplies from the West Coast of the US to the East Coast of Australia, and I don't have any supply transports at the West Coast right now. This captures the essence of my real problem - it will be up to two game-months before I can start to supply Eastern Australia properly because I will have to move shipping back across the Pacific to the West Coast before I can start to ship supplies westwards!

Situation Assessment - Southern and Western Australia:

Most of us ignore Southern Australia, but thanks to situation in the DEI, the South has just become much more important than usual. I am going to make Adelaide a key consolidation base of operations until the situation in the DEI stabilizes. Adelaide has some supplies and fuel - I am diverting a small fuel TF that was bound for Perth to Adelaide. There isn't enough fuel in that TF to really matter in Perth at this point, and I'd rather empty that TF and turn it around than take a chance at it getting caught in a potential debacle off of the West Coast of Australia.

Yes, the cupboard is definitely "bare" in Perth. There are a lot of ships there and more on the way, but no supplies to speak of and no fuel at all. I am resorting to using my AKs to provide "fuel at sea" to fill up the smaller ships to some extent. I've got three CVs in port - for some reason their fighters are on land. I will have to see what was done and why - they aren't badly damaged.

But Perth is a lousy place to have sitting the only functional Allied CVs. Not only is there no supply or fuel in Perth, there is little in the Northern Australian ports either. Essentially there is no way to support naval air combat operations off of Western or Northern Australia at this time, nor in the foreseeable future. Therefore, once I get those fighters back on board, I'm sending those CVs back to the Pacific and spreading them out in support of my operations in the South and Central Pacific where they can get support and have freedom of movement. Australia will have to rely upon LBA until new carriers enter Allied service.

My intention is to send everything that floats around the south of Australia to the Pacific. Sure, it will take a long time, but it will be safe from the KB unless PzB is willing to risk sending resupply TFs along for the ride. The AI often leaves the KB "high and dry" at sea somewhere, but I can't see PzB doing that. And if for some reason he happens to do that, then I will happily take advantage of the situation in the Central Pacific.

I don't want to send ships to the Northern Australian ports because they will be vulnerable to air and naval attack and they will use up the limited supply and fuel that is there. I want to start a heavy bomber air campaign against PzB's bases in Timor and vicinity and therefore I will need all the supply that I can get. I noticed from the combat records that PzB has lost a lot of planes, and I want to "help" him lose more. The major limiting factor again for me will be a dearth of air support units in the Northern Bases.

Situation Assessment - Java and the DEI:

Ugh. The situation in Java reminds me of Robert Heinlein's novel "Starship Troopers" (not the movie) when he describes the debacle during the first invasion of the home planet of the Bugs. Java will probably end up being a total write-off. I have already started to pull troops back from their futile attacks on the bases that the Japanese still hold. I want to bog down PzB as long as possible in Java, and in order to do that I will need my troops to last as long as possible. Trading blows with continuously strengthening enemies is not the way to do that.

The major problem will be one of supply. (That is sounding familiar, isn't it?) There is no supply available nearby, so what is there will have to last. Essentially this is the PI in December 1941 all over again. There are even isolated troops on a nearby island. I have no idea why or how they got there.

My first goal will be to put the air bases on Timor out of business. I will attempt to do that with the LBA that I have in Northern Australia. I need to do this so that I have a hope containing the Japanese counterattacks. I don't care and can't do much if PzB attacks from the North or East, but I don't want him to be able to attack from the South too.

I've set up a Pearl Harbor-style "stampede" of ships out of Tjilitjap harbor. (ZonkerH and Tophat know what that is like. <L>) I don't really care if the KB is off shore or not. As it is, all of my ships are sitting ducks in the harbor and provide no useful function there. I've grouped them together in a number of fairly sizable TFs - I can't escape notice and so don't expect too. But more flak is better than less, and I hope to fatigue, damage and destroy attacking aircraft. Even the KB has to go back to port once in a while. And every ship that I get free from that death trap is a ship that can come back to fight again on my terms in the future. I did scuttle one CV that was too badly damaged to try to move.

I've left the air craft that are in Java in place, with some rearrangements. I set everything on "naval attack", just to hinder PzB's counterattacks. He will need to commit a fair amount of air power to suppress me, and air power being used against Java is not being used elsewhere. (I hate fighting in so many fronts simultaneously!)

Essentially, PzB has damaged the Allied sortie into the DEI so badly that there is no truely viable threat left. If he were to just isolate and ignore Java it would make no difference. Without having Timor under my control I can't support my forces in Java. And I don�t have the forces, supplies and transports necessary to take Timor. My best hope is that PzB doesn't realize this and continues to make serious efforts to retake Java. If he goes after Java instead of trying to retake his lost positions in the South and Central Pacific I will have the time to rebuild in the East and start to plan a serious offensive for early 1943. If, on the other hand, PzB splits his forces and tries to assail all three fronts - Java, the South Pacific and the Gilberts simultaneously, I ought to be able to tie him up and drain his efforts. Again, my worst case scenario is that he leaves Java to "wither on the vine" and goes after the South or Central Pacific in a serious manner during the next two months.

Situation Assessment - India:

India is another "ugh" situation, but maybe not as bad as case as in Java. First off, I'm hoping to illustrate Sun Tsui's dictum that you should always allow your enemy some escape route in order to avoid having the enemy (in this case me) fight to the death and cause you unnecessary casualties.

So, for example, I've split up that big SC TF that was between Karachi and Bombay into three cruiser-lead SC TFs, with reactions set to "6" and both "destination" and "home base" set to Karachi. I've also put those few fighting ships in Karachi Harbor into an SC TF with the same settings. This way, if PzB's SC TF goes into Karachi, it will run into four SC TFs with plenty of DDs as well as cruisers that have torpedoes. I don't care how much damage I take - his ships will eventually run out of ammunition and operation points and I will eventually drive them off. My goal is to both damage his forces as well as allow my troops to start to repair the lightly damages airfields.

I've also put a number of torpedo bombers and fighters into Karachi. If things go as I plan, there ought to be a number of targets for them offshore in the daylight. At the same time I've set all my other LBA to do airfield attacks on Bombay. I want to put that airfield out of operation and damage/destroy as many of PzB's planes as I can. If Bombay can't provide air cover for PzB's ships, and can't bomb the airfield at Karachi, then I can get the breathing space that I need.

It doesn't matter how many planes I lose. I have lots of them, and I will lose them anyway if I can't stop PzB's land attacks. So I would rather use them up attacking his forces at Bombay in order to buy time. I have also ordered all of my forces to head to existing Allied bases such as Delhi and Ahmadabad. They won't get there fast, but they will move and start to interfere with Japanese supply routes. I will also start the routine of not engaging in artillery duels with the Japanese. That strategy has worked wonders in my other PBEMs since I started it. It may be too late to save Ahmadabad, but PzB will know that he was in a fight.

The other part of the Indian situation is the scattering of ships out in the Indian Ocean and Arabian Gulf. I don't know if PzB will bother to send carriers out to hunt them down. I don't really care and can't do anything about it anyway. If he sends carriers out to hunt that means that he doesn't have carriers someplace else where it might be important to me. And if he doesn't hunt down my ships then eventually they will get to where I want them. And who knows, if I can stabilize the situation in India, I will start to get some decent troops in a couple of weeks, and Karachi may once again become important as a supply port in the future.

BTW - I still hold Colombo. I've ordered the troops that PzB kicked out of Trimcomalee to try to march to Colombo. They aren't doing any good sitting where they are right now. There are a lot of Allied subs in the region, but most are trying to transport base force troops from Colombo to Karachi. I've cancelled those trips and ordered the subs back to Columbo. I intend to use them to "flood" the region around Karachi with subs on combat patrol. I'm also trying to build Karachi into a level 9 port so that I can rearm my subs there instead of having to send them down to Australia.

Right now I have no combat troops in Colombo, just two HQs and three base forces. If PzB invades before my "orphan" combat troops make it to Colombo, then it will be a relative cakewalk for him. That's another reason to not take base forces out of Colombo - I want to fill it with aircraft and attack his local air bases, ports and ships.

Situation Assessment - Burma and China:

The situation in Burma is very odd. Mandalay is sitting almost isolated but not under any immediate threat. For some reason there are four HQs there. I am spreading them out to the other Burmese bases that I still hold. I may well attack with the Chinese forces that are there, simply because it beats letting them just sit around doing nothing since they will eventually run out of supply.

I hold five bases in south-central China. I also have two huge groupings of Chinese troops sitting out in the middle of nowhere, doing nothing. I am trying to move those Chinese troops to somewhere worthwhile. I am also starting to try to use the Chinese air force for something, if only for nuisance value. I intend to flood the routes leading to my remaining bases with troops so that PzB will have to spend the time to roust them out before pursuing any attacks on my remaining cities.

Situation Assessment - the Soviet Union:

I've started to build up the forts and air bases there, as well as set training values for those planes. I can always hope that PzB either makes a mistake or gets "Victory Fever" and attacks. (But not attack too quickly.)

Dave Baranyi

Post #: 1

RE: Canuck's Revenge - ADavidB vs PzB (Wobbly's game co... - 3/5/2005 1:25:45 AM

Grotius

Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline

Sounds like a sensible set of plans. I'm glad to hear you've split up those surface combat TFs near Karachi -- best to keep such TFs under 15 ships. Good luck!

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 2

RE: Canuck's Revenge - ADavidB vs PzB (Wobbly's game co... - 3/5/2005 1:59:08 AM

ZonkerHarris

Posts: 83
Joined: 11/10/2004
From: Walden Puddle
Status: offline

I obviously haven't been causing you nearly enough problems in our game if you're willing to volunteer for these headaches! Good luck in pulling this game out of the fire.

_____________________________

"All right you primitive screwheads, listen up. See this? This is my boomstick!"

(in reply to Grotius)

Post #: 3

RE: Canuck's Revenge - ADavidB vs PzB (Wobbly's game co... - 3/5/2005 2:23:26 AM

byron13

Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

I did scuttle one CV that was too badly damaged to try to move.

You scuttled Lady Lex??!!

OH NO!

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 4

RE: Canuck's Revenge - ADavidB vs PzB (Wobbly's game co... - 3/5/2005 2:53:26 AM

Central Blue

Posts: 695
Joined: 8/20/2004
Status: offline

sounds sticky. The game is a lot about supply lines. Holding Tarawa and Henderson field early is a leg up. To bad he's got Gilli-Gilli. Reading between the lines.... sounds like there is little going on at Noumea, Fiji, Samoa, Canton Island.

_____________________________

USS St. Louis firing on Guam, July 1944. The Cardinals and Browns faced each other in the World Series that year

(in reply to byron13)

Post #: 5

RE: Canuck's Revenge - ADavidB vs PzB (Wobbly's game co... - 3/5/2005 2:53:58 AM

byron13

Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline

I'm curious how bad things are on Java. Wobbly seems to have grabbed a number of valuable bases that are mutually supporting. If (and I emphasize "if") there is sufficient supply and air available, it seems like Java would be a good sword to have PzB fall upon. It seems that your pilots now have the advantage in the air (other than against, at least for the time being, KB) due to pilot quality, making his aerial assaults and supporting efforts costly.

I always thought that the void south of Java was a huge weakness in the plan, but . . . Can Java be resupplied from the west while you clean out Timor? I'd hate to see you pull out of Java just because it is risky or hard. Such a huge foothold and thorn in the enemy's side should not be surrendered lightly. A stalemate on Java at this stage is a victory.

Or is the problem that Australia is pretty much denuded of supply, and the transports are too banged up to keep both Java in supply from Oz and Oz in supply from the U.S.? What kind of LCU strength is there in northern Oz?

Heck, at this point, I've completely lost track of the Allied capital ships. How many CVs, BBs, and CAs are there, where are they, and what are their condition?

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 6

RE: Canuck's Revenge - July 9 update - 3/5/2005 4:53:30 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

Okay, the first fruits of my emergency plan came forward in the first night of sea battles. This is why I split my naval forces up:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Karachi at 21,3

Japanese Ships
CL Tatsuta, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
DD Mutsuki, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
DD Fumizuki, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Nagatsuki, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
DD Mikazuki, Shell hits 1
DD Mochizuki

Allied Ships
CL Birmingham, Shell hits 3
DD Banckert
DD Witte de With, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Kortenaer, Shell hits 1
DD Piet Hein, Shell hits 1
DD Express
DD Foxhound

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Karachi at 21,3

Japanese Ships
DD Mutsuki, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
DD Nagatsuki, Shell hits 10, and is sunk
DD Mikazuki
DD Mochizuki, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Birmingham
DD Banckert
DD Witte de With, on fire, heavy damage
DD Kortenaer
DD Piet Hein
DD Express
DD Foxhound

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Karachi at 21,3

Japanese Ships
DD Mikazuki, Shell hits 14, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CA Devonshire
DD Mugford, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
DD Patterson
DD Barker
DD Stewart
DD Vampire

____________

PzB sent in a light surface force and paid for it in a big way. I don't care about my losses and they were well worth it. I love to see those Japanese DDs go down. That is 5 fewer DDs and one less CL to bother me and to look out for subs. Now I am even more determined to empty out those subs and flood the sea around Karachi with them.

I also sent everything that I had at the airfield at Bombay:

Day Air attack on Bombay , at 20,10

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 19
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 12

Allied aircraft
Hudson I x 9
Beaufort I x 10
Beaufort V-IX x 32

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 damaged
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 5 damaged
Ki-21 Sally: 5 destroyed, 11 damaged
H8K Emily: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Hudson I: 10 destroyed, 1 damaged
Beaufort I: 14 destroyed
Beaufort V-IX: 17 destroyed, 8 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
68 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 4
Runway hits 13

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Bombay , at 20,10

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 19
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 12

Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 6
Wellington III x 43
B-17E Fortress x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 15 destroyed, 7 damaged
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 5 destroyed, 5 damaged
Ki-21 Sally: 37 destroyed, 70 damaged
H8K Emily: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim IV: 2 damaged
Wellington III: 8 destroyed, 5 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
593 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 11
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 84

________

That set him back. He has now pulled back his bombers and filled the base with fighters. That buys me more time to have my planes and bases recover. I've also got more planes on "naval attack" this turn. I don't care about air losses at this point. I'll trade PzB until the cows come home. If I don't use the planes I'll lose them.

My Naval escape from Tjilitjap started out fairly successfully too. PzB's LBA hit the TF full of damaged transports, but didn't find anything else. Now, it looks as if he is trying to send carriers back into the Indian Ocean to intercept what I have there, but that really doesn't matter. I'm getting more and more ships down to Perth and I was able to re-load my fighters onto my remaining carriers and start to more them out.

PzB has also sent a lot of air power at the various bases in Java. It won't be long before my air force there is pretty much put out of action. However, he is learning that "naval attack" is painful in small ways:

Day Air attack on TF at 16,59

Allied aircraft
Fulmar x 5
SBD Dauntless x 18
Kittyhawk I x 5
P-40B Tomahawk x 12
P-40E Warhawk x 18

Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-40B Tomahawk: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CL Naka
DD Arashi
CA Myoko
CA Chokai
DD Akigumo
CL Isuzu, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Kazegumo, Bomb hits 1, on fire

and :

Day Air attack on TF at 16,59

Allied aircraft
Hudson I x 3
B-25C Mitchell x 17

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CA Myoko, Bomb hits 1
CA Chokai
DD Nowaki

Sure, it's not much, but every bomb counts and every time one hits, a little damage occurs, speed is reduced a bit, and there is always the chance of something lucky happening.

On the land in India PzB continues to slug it out at 0:1 odds at Ahmadabad. I'll take it. The guys there are buying time. I'm working hard in the meanwhile to bolster up my other bases and collect my troops.

This will all take time, but PzB now knows that he can't take the situation for granted.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to byron13)

Post #: 7

RE: Canuck's Revenge - ADavidB vs PzB (Wobbly's game co... - 3/5/2005 5:00:06 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: byron13

I'm curious how bad things are on Java. Wobbly seems to have grabbed a number of valuable bases that are mutually supporting. If (and I emphasize "if") there is sufficient supply and air available, it seems like Java would be a good sword to have PzB fall upon. It seems that your pilots now have the advantage in the air (other than against, at least for the time being, KB) due to pilot quality, making his aerial assaults and supporting efforts costly.

I always thought that the void south of Java was a huge weakness in the plan, but . . . Can Java be resupplied from the west while you clean out Timor? I'd hate to see you pull out of Java just because it is risky or hard. Such a huge foothold and thorn in the enemy's side should not be surrendered lightly. A stalemate on Java at this stage is a victory.

Or is the problem that Australia is pretty much denuded of supply, and the transports are too banged up to keep both Java in supply from Oz and Oz in supply from the U.S.? What kind of LCU strength is there in northern Oz?

Heck, at this point, I've completely lost track of the Allied capital ships. How many CVs, BBs, and CAs are there, where are they, and what are their condition?

As far as your first point goes - the problem is supply. There isn't enough in Java to keep up a good defense, let alone do any more offensive operations. And PzB has put a ton of air power in the neighborhood which is tearing up the air forces that I do have there.

Right now I have NO SUPPLY anywhere around Australia!!!!! That's Right! Wobbly threw everything at Java in one huge gamble, without any backup. So yes, there are troops in Northern Australia that I could use for an invasion of Timor. But I don't have the ships, and I can't protect ships from the KB. There is no fuel or supply to support my remaining carriers and there is effectively no Allied surface force in the region. I've got a few damaged 20-knot BBs and escorts in Perth. There is no fuel or supply there, so I have to send them back to the Pacific too.

So I'm lucky that PzB is in a bit of a state of shock at my initial "rabid weasel" attacks in India and Java. This has made him a bit more cautious and may by me the time I need to set up a proper supply chain. Right now it is a house of cards and could fall down at any moment if I'm not careful.

Thanks for the comments -

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to byron13)

Post #: 8

RE: Canuck's Revenge - ADavidB vs PzB (Wobbly's game co... - 3/5/2005 5:05:34 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Central Blue

sounds sticky. The game is a lot about supply lines. Holding Tarawa and Henderson field early is a leg up. To bad he's got Gilli-Gilli. Reading between the lines.... sounds like there is little going on at Noumea, Fiji, Samoa, Canton Island.

There's little or no fuel and supplies at any of those places, so there is little I can do there. Fortunately PzB isn't snooping around so he doesn't know the sorry state of things. It's all a matter of time. I need 4 game-weeks to start to resupply the Eastern Pacific, 8 game-weeks to supply the South Pacific and Eastern Australia, and 12 game-weeks to supply Northern Australia and Java. I'm not likely to get 8 or 12 game-weeks of "rest" to be able to set things up. So I'm working in a triage situation right now.

But if I can cause PzB enough damage and losses in Java and India it may buy me whole three months that I need to reestablish a stable base of operations in the Central Pacific and be able to plan a serious and deadly thrust into the heart of Japanese territory in 1943.

We'll see -

Thanks for the comments -

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to Central Blue)

Post #: 9

RE: Canuck's Revenge - ADavidB vs PzB (Wobbly's game co... - 3/5/2005 6:00:05 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

I obviously haven't been causing you nearly enough problems in our game if you're willing to volunteer for these headaches! Good luck in pulling this game out of the fire.

Hey, I've learned a lot from our game, and I'm applying much of that knowledge right now. (I'm also applying some of the lessons that I taught to you too.

)

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ZonkerHarris)

Post #: 10

RE: Canuck's Revenge - ADavidB vs PzB (Wobbly's game co... - 3/5/2005 6:19:25 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

Heck, at this point, I've completely lost track of the Allied capital ships. How many CVs, BBs, and CAs are there, where are they, and what are their condition?

Okay, here's a rough picture of my ship situation:

CVs - 4 CVs with <20 damage (3 US, 1 Brit) all short or out of fuel and supplies and off the west coast of Australia. 1 CV at risk of sinking at sea in the Indian Ocean, with part of the KB nearby looking for it. (Wish me luck on this one.) Essentially none are usable for a couple of weeks.

BBs - 10 20-knot BBs with half less than 20 damage and the rest in various bad states. Most of the damaged ships are also at risk off of Java. Of the lesser damaged BBs, 1 20-knot BB is in the Eastern Pacific and 1 20-knot BB is in Noumea. There is also 1 28-knot BB in the Eastern Pacific.

CAs - 8 with less than 10 damage - most of these are in the East Pacific or South Pacific. 7 CAs with lots of damage at risk off of Java or in Karachi.

CLs - 14 with less than 10 damage - mainly in the Eastern or Southern Pacific, with a few in Karachi. 9 with lots of damage and at risk - mainly around Java or Karachi.

Lots of DDs with about a third of them seriously damaged.

There's not a lot to work with here for the next little while.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to byron13)

Post #: 11

RE: Canuck's Revenge - ADavidB vs PzB (Wobbly's game co... - 3/5/2005 7:09:42 AM

Grotius

Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
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This is great reading, Dave. Keep up the great AAR!

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 12

Japanese ship losses - as of July 9 - 3/5/2005 2:39:14 PM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

This is great reading, Dave. Keep up the great AAR!

Thanks - I've got all of Wobbly's great work to match up to, so I need to work a bit harder yet.

Okay, here are the details of the Japanese ship losses as of July 9, 1942:

CV - 2 (same as the Allies)

AV - 2 (Japanese AVs and CSs are always pains to deal with so it's good to see two gone.)

CL - 4 (That's okay, but it's not good news that no Japanese CAs have been sunk yet.)

DD - 30 (That's GREAT news!!! I need to find my subs now and start to position them aggressively.)

ML - 15 (That's also great news. This means that there will be fewer mines to deal with in 1943.)

PC - 9 (I guess my subs will be dealing with these guys.)

PT - 3 (My subs will have to deal with them, but at least they can't fast transport troops.)

MSW - 17 (Hmmm - this has promise for my Solomons plans - he won't be able to remove my mines easily.)

PG - 7 ( Not bad, fewer for the subs to worry about.)

SS - 36 (Now that's really GREAT! No wonder Wobbly didn't bother with escorts for his transport TFs. None-the-less, I'm paranoid and I don't want to take chances with how many subs PzB has left.)

So in summary, PzB still has formidable surface forces, and a strong Naval Air contingent, but he doesn't have much in the way of escort capacity. This means that my subs are some of my best weapons right now.

The other thing that this means is that due to the losses of all those DDs and MLs, PzB will be hard pressed to do Fast Transport attacks to try to outflank me or do nuisance raids. That's very nice to know.

Now to continue to plan my strategy accordingly.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to Grotius)

Post #: 13

RE: Japanese ship losses - as of July 9 - 3/5/2005 3:16:45 PM

EUBanana

Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline

Excellent that you have stepped into Wobbly's long suffering shoes. May the best AAR continue!

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 14

RE: Japanese ship losses - as of July 9 - 3/5/2005 3:22:04 PM

EUBanana

Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline

Interesting, reading your very first post here, that you say that Wobbly was a bit short on naval patrols and recon.

I almost got sawed off due to lack of naval search recon in my game, I think I've learned my lesson. I want Catalinas -everywhere- if possible now!

(in reply to EUBanana)

Post #: 15

RE: Japanese ship losses - as of July 9 - 3/5/2005 3:31:05 PM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

Interesting, reading your very first post here, that you say that Wobbly was a bit short on naval patrols and recon.

I almost got sawed off due to lack of naval search recon in my game, I think I've learned my lesson. I want Catalinas -everywhere- if possible now!

Well, as Zonker and I will both attest from our game, air patrols don't "guarantee" finding trouble before it finds you, but they beat the alternative hands down.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to EUBanana)

Post #: 16

RE: Japanese ship losses - as of July 9 - 3/5/2005 3:33:09 PM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

Excellent that you have stepped into Wobbly's long suffering shoes. May the best AAR continue!

Thank you. I have "big shoes" to fill here and I'll do my best.

Ganbarimasu! (Ooops - wrong AAR - I'm not the Japanese here...

)

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to EUBanana)

Post #: 17

RE: Japanese ship losses - as of July 9 - 3/5/2005 4:30:30 PM

CapAndGown

Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline

Perhaps I am confused here. Did you intend to stop all offensive operations in Java? Including trying to take Batavia???? From your screen shot you already have a unit in the Batavia hex. Batavia can generate supply for you if you take it (it is a resource hex, yes?) I don't know what PzB has in Batavia, but it is at least worth a probe to see if it can be taken.

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 18

RE: Japanese ship losses - as of July 9 - 3/5/2005 4:44:11 PM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

Perhaps I am confused here. Did you intend to stop all offensive operations in Java? Including trying to take Batavia???? From your screen shot you already have a unit in the Batavia hex. Batavia can generate supply for you if you take it (it is a resource hex, yes?) I don't know what PzB has in Batavia, but it is at least worth a probe to see if it can be taken.

You bet! I've pulled all the troops back from Batavia too. My forces are too fragmented, too tired, too fatigued and too short on supplies to be able to take anything that is defended. And PzB can bomb Batavia back into the Stone Age anytime that he wants so there is no reason for me to stay there - I can't protect it and I can't get any benefit from it.

What I want to do is establish a very costly war of attrition in Java. I want PzB to commit troops and supplies and air power. And I want him to do that for weeks and weeks and weeks. The effort that he will have to commit there if he wants to retake Java will be a major drain on his ability to do anything else, anywhere else except for in India.

So I want my fighting forces to stay able to fight for as long as possible. This means not taking unnecessary losses for bases with no real value to me. I want PzB to send transport TFs to the Javanese bases that he still holds - he will then have to contend with my LBA doing mass anti-ship attacks. This means a drain on his airpower.

Later on I will post an assessment of the Allied troop situation and you will get a much better idea of why I am doing this, both in the local context of Java as well as in the context of the overall War.

Let me leave you an image from WW II that represent what Java currently means to me - think Dieppe, and think a greater committment with a greater response...

Thanks for your comments -

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to CapAndGown)

Post #: 19

RE: Japanese ship losses - as of July 9 - 3/5/2005 9:31:03 PM

Central Blue

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Joined: 8/20/2004
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Do you hold Soerbaya? No malaria there if I remember correctly. DOn't know what you have to slow him down with, but it's nice to get the best unit there resting up while he's on his way.

If worst comes to worst... US subs make great troop transport during 1942...

_____________________________

USS St. Louis firing on Guam, July 1944. The Cardinals and Browns faced each other in the World Series that year

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 20

RE: Japanese ship losses - as of July 9 - 3/5/2005 9:45:57 PM

toraq

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Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline

Well David, these are just comments so take them on the right way:

I disagree with most of the things you are doing so!. To my surprise I didn�t read any "big plan". I.e "avoid auto victory is the most important thing" or "save India" or whatever.

. If PzB invade India and destroys Java, no matter what you do in Central Pacific, cos you won�t have time, PzB will get the auto victory.

Accepting the defeat in Java is one of the most annoying things of your strategy!. If you don�t take those bases in the island they will become easy points to unload troops and supplies.

I can imagine that the situation in Java is a disaster. I warned Wobbly to watch out for supplies and fuel. But even with this restriction you should try to defend Java, like US defended Guadalcanal so PzB will risk his naval resources=points to avoid auto victory.

BUT DO NOT leave JAVA!!!. Try to build a strong supply line (invade that island with jap troops on it) and maintain the supply TF heading to Australia and DO NOT send them to Central Pacific

Sending your TF out of Java while the KB is there is a MISTAKE. Ok, they are doing nothing in a port but at least they are protected with CAP and AAA fire. What a waste of good men

If I were you I would read wobbly�s AARs so you can learn about his plans (and mistakes)

Anyway, good luck

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 21

RE: Japanese ship losses - as of July 9 - 3/5/2005 9:58:11 PM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Central Blue

Do you hold Soerbaya? No malaria there if I remember correctly. DOn't know what you have to slow him down with, but it's nice to get the best unit there resting up while he's on his way.

If worst comes to worst... US subs make great troop transport during 1942...

Yes, I hold most of Java except for Batavia and Merak in the North and Malang in the South. I'm presently consolidating my positions. PzB is busy attacking the TFs of damaged ships that I've sailed out of port, which allows me to rebuild my air forces at the various bases and redistribute land forces. I am also engaging in a naval air war of attrition in the area.

I have no intention of trying to abandon Java - I want PzB to come in and fight for it. But I'm not going to throw away more good forces right now, because PzB totally has the upper hand in the theater. For example, he has three naval air TFs in the Southern Indian Ocean, hunting down the remnants of what Wobby sent home a game-week ago. I've got nothing in the region that can stop him - my own carriers are a week's steaming away and have no fuel and little in the way of supplies. And the closest fuel and supplies is a couple of week's steaming away.

So far I'm happy with what is happening. I will likely lose more ships in the Indian Ocean and the Arabian Sea. But I am causing PzB grief and losses, and allowing myself the time to rebuild strength elsewhere.

I'll post more details in a little while.

Cheers -

Dave

(in reply to Central Blue)

Post #: 22

RE: Japanese ship losses - as of July 9 - 3/5/2005 10:11:56 PM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

BUT DO NOT leave JAVA!!!. Try to build a strong supply line (invade that island with jap troops on it) and maintain the supply TF heading to Australia and DO NOT send them to Central Pacific

I'm not abandoning Java, I'm setting up for the long haul there. Right now there is no way to supply it, nor get more troops to it. Neither do I want to chance taking troops out of it.

Ports are not safe havens, particularly when you don't really have control of the air. As soon as I sent my TFs out on July 8, PzB sent a huge air attack in and overwhelmed my air defenses easily. The air defense situation in Java is really bad - there are only understrength air units there.

My strategy has also been to distract PzB with TFs of damaged ships - the ones that won't survive anyway. My better ships are going off away from the action. Sure enough, PzB's air forces are going after my damaged ships and not noticing my good ships. This allows me the time to rebuild my air bases in Java and to give my air groups there some possibility to regroup. Remember, if you can only put a half dozen fighters in the air at a time, you aren't going to stop much of anything.

The real issue with a supply line is that there isn't any. You have to realize that 90% of the Allied transports are on the West of Australia or in the Indian Ocean. Unless I can get some of them to the Pacific and start them on the long, long, looooong trek across to the West Coast, there will be no way to move any supplies anywhere.

This was my reality on July 8, 1942 when I took over the game: there were a total of THREE, yes, read that carefully again, THREE 4500 ton AKs on the West Coast of North American. Now, think about that.

So "long term plans" and what not are not part of my vocabulary right now. I'm strictly in "survival" mode. The Java operation is working well because it has done what Wobbly intended it to do - it has caused PzB to pull significant forces away from India and the Central Pacific to deal with this operation. It just so happens that the entire operation has ended up to be a fairly big disaster, but that's how things go. Now I am going to try to make PzB pay dearly for recoving Java. Every ship he loses, every plane I shoot down, every invader who gets lost at sea or blasted at land is costing PzB points and time. And time is on my side.

Cheers, and thanks for your comments -

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to toraq)

Post #: 23

RE: Japanese ship losses - as of July 9 - 3/5/2005 10:52:33 PM

Central Blue

Posts: 695
Joined: 8/20/2004
Status: offline

I was going to say too bad about Malang... He closed the back door. Smart guy you're playing.

Then I read this: "You have to realize that 90% of the Allied transports are on the West of Australia or in the Indian Ocean." and realized you have real problems to worry about.

Forget the beer. Send Canadian Club.

_____________________________

USS St. Louis firing on Guam, July 1944. The Cardinals and Browns faced each other in the World Series that year

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 24

RE: Japanese ship losses - as of July 9 - 3/5/2005 10:58:43 PM

EUBanana

Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline

A battle of attrition is, I suppose, what you want to force. Allied production is much trumpeted after all, I know in my game i decided I dont mind losing CVs so long as he loses CVs as well.

But!

Just how much punishment can the Allies take and still be the winner is the question. I figure 1 for 1 losses are excellent for the Alllies, but 2 to 1, 4 to 1? I'm honestly curious how much the Allied industrial advantage counts for.
If your clock is totally cleaned in Java is it really worth it. Sounds like a bit of a bigger battle of attrition than Guadalcanal was here.

(in reply to Central Blue)

Post #: 25

RE: Japanese ship losses - as of July 9 - 3/6/2005 12:18:17 AM

Tom Hunter

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Joined: 12/14/2004
Status: offline

I think your question is right on target EUBanana but I don't think ADavidB has a choice. His force is where it is and its going to be 3 months before he can get it more supply. That is a long time to wait while under attack.

(in reply to EUBanana)

Post #: 26

Race against Time - 3/6/2005 3:07:46 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

Okay, so I had sent everything that would fly in India on July 8 off on airfield attacks on Bombay and surprised PzB pretty well. So this turn, since I could see that he had pulled his bombers back from Bombay and put in lots of fighters, I set all of my bombers on "Naval Attack" and got the following pleasing results:

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 12
A6M3 Zero x 7
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 16

Allied aircraft
Hudson I x 5
Beaufort V-IX x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 damaged
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Hudson I: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
Beaufort V-IX: 7 destroyed, 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Fukko Maru
AP Zukai Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Terukuni Maru

A6M2 Zero x 5
A6M3 Zero x 3
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 8

Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 37

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 damaged
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 2 destroyed, 9 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Zukai Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Yasukuni Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Tatsutake Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Yamura Maru
AP Terukuni Maru
AP Atsuta Maru, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AP Nichiryo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Day Air attack on TF, near Bombay at 20,10

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 12
A6M3 Zero x 7
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 15

Allied aircraft
Beaufort I x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort I: 4 destroyed, 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima, Bomb hits 1

Sure, I took some damage, and bombs don't do much to BBs, but I've caused grief in his transport fleets and given notice that he doesn't "own the seas" around Bombay.

Now, PzB also got in shots against my ships that were fleeing Java:

Day Air attack on TF at 16,64

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 11
G4M1 Betty x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied Ships
MSW Grebe
AK West Shipper, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Lahaina, Torpedo hits 1

But those ships were badly damaged anyway! My ploy worked - PzB sent his planes after my damaged ships and didn't bomb my airbases in Java. This allowed my engineers to start to do badly needed repairs to the bases, as well as start to repair my planes - I have very few operational planes in Java right now. My air force in Java is very much a "paper tiger".

In the meanwhile, as I had expected, PzB had split the KB into three forces that straddled the Southwest Indian Ocean and finally found the ships that Wobbly had sent West then South a couple of game-weeks ago:

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 31
D3A Val x 23
B5N Kate x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Nordhval, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Day Air attack on TF at 2,82

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 16
A6M3 Zero x 13
D3A Val x 25
B5N Kate x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate: 4 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Ernest Meyer, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AK Maine
AK Mormacsul, Torpedo hits 1
AK Olopana, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AK Mauna Loa, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Mormachawk, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Admiral Halstead, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
AK Mormacgull, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Day Air attack on TF at 3,78

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 35
D3A Val x 20

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
TK Empire Amethyst, Bomb hits 8, on fire, heavy damage

Day Air attack on TF at 1,85

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 15
A6M3 Zero x 12
D3A Val x 18
B5N Kate x 2

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Empire Strength, Bomb hits 3
AK Empire Glade, Bomb hits 1, on fire

As you can see, there was no place for these ships to "hide" - they were right against the map edge.

The KB also finally caught the Enterprise, which had been limping along at a couple of knots with system and fire both above 50:

Day Air attack on TF at 3,75

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 22
D3A Val x 22
B5N Kate x 36
E13A1 Jake x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
CV Enterprise, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Van Nes, Bomb hits 2, on fire

Day Air attack on TF at 3,75

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 19
B5N Kate x 73
E13A1 Jake x 2

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
DD Maury, Bomb hits 1

PzB later wrote that he was surprised at the speed with which the Big sank. He hadn't realized how bad things were.

Now my big problem will be if PzB sends some or all of the KB to the South towards Perth. For example, Formidable is limping south with No Fuel a couple of days north of Perth. But Perth does not mean safety, because there is No Fuel there either. The only reason that I am having the Formidable go to Perth is because I am hoping that I can do a "fuel at sea" there and give Formidable enough "juice" to get to Adelaide.

With all this I have stopped the southwards travel of the remainder of Wobbly's pitiful remnants and am hoping to hide them until the KB goes back for supplies. In order to entice Wobbly to leave the map edge, I have diverted my TF full of "cripples" out of Java due south along the DEI in hopes of getting the KB to chase after them.

BTW - here is a very odd bit of surface action - one of PzB's air patrol TFs ran into the remains of the Enterprise's escorts:

Day Time Surface Combat at 3,75

Japanese Ships
CS Mizuho
DD Inazuma, Shell hits 5, on fire

Allied Ships
DD Maury, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
DD Van Nes, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage

As far as India goes, PzB is still getting "0 to 1" combat results at Ahmadabad. We're both losing troops and I'm losing more than he is, but he still hasn't taken Ahmadabad. Right now I am in a "race against time" - My forces in Karachi consist of two base forces, as do my forces in Malir. So once PzB takes Ahmadabad, there is nothing to keep him from taking Karachi.

However, the first Chindits group will arrive in 5 days, followed by the second in two weeks. So if I can hold Ahmadabad for another week I will get some decent troops to send to Malir. If I can hold for two weeks, I'll have some decent troops in both Karachi and Malir.

Will the Chindits alone save Karachi for me? I doubt it, but if I can hold for two more weeks I should be able to start to cause even greater losses for PzB.

To be continued�.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to Tom Hunter)

Post #: 27

RE: Japanese ship losses - as of July 9 - 3/6/2005 3:13:14 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

A battle of attrition is, I suppose, what you want to force. Allied production is much trumpeted after all, I know in my game i decided I dont mind losing CVs so long as he loses CVs as well.

But!

Just how much punishment can the Allies take and still be the winner is the question. I figure 1 for 1 losses are excellent for the Alllies, but 2 to 1, 4 to 1? I'm honestly curious how much the Allied industrial advantage counts for.
If your clock is totally cleaned in Java is it really worth it. Sounds like a bit of a bigger battle of attrition than Guadalcanal was here.

You are very right. If I lose everything in Java I will be in real trouble and unlikely to be able to avoid a Japanese auto-victory. That is why I am "battening down the hatches" right now in Java and waiting. I need time as much as I need supplies, because I need time to get supplies to be able to not only defend but to also re-start any attacks in the theater.

I would have never taken the Java gambit. I would have gone after the Kuriles which are a lot closer to home and a lot farther away from India. Take Sakahin Island and you have bases for heavy bombers in easy range of Hokkaido. PzB would have definately had to respond with everything to that.

But that is hindsight, and I've agreed to take on Wobbly's approach and see what I can do with it.

In the meanwhile, I continue to surprise PzB.

Thanks for the comments -

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to EUBanana)

Post #: 28

July 10 - Death From the Skies - 3/6/2005 5:12:16 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

Well, that was very strange - PzB's battle force sitting off of Karachi didn't go in. Was it a bombardment force that detected planes and held off or what? In any event, I'm happy for all such "blessings" and my planes did get a shot at the force:

Day Air attack on TF at 19,6

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 3

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 8
Swordfish x 16
Blenheim IV x 10
P-40E Warhawk x 7

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 damaged
Swordfish: 10 destroyed, 8 damaged
Blenheim IV: 1 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed, 5 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Fuso
BB Kongo
BB Haruna
BB Nagato, Torpedo hits 1

I'll take those losses any day. After all, it's either "use them or lose them". And I did get one torpedo into a BB. I've also started to flood the area between Bombay and Karachi with subs on the prowl. That always makes me feel good - subs do like cripples. <g>

In the meanwhile, the rest of my LBA hit Bombay again with nice results:

Day Air attack on Bombay , at 20,10

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 17
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 17

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk I x 8
Hudson I x 7
Beaufort I x 3
Beaufort V-IX x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged
Ki-21 Sally: 11 destroyed, 7 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk I: 11 destroyed
Hudson I: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
Beaufort I: 5 destroyed, 2 damaged
Beaufort V-IX: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
158 casualties reported

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 11

apanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 12
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 8

Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 45

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 13 destroyed
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 10 destroyed
Ki-21 Sally: 14 destroyed, 14 damaged
H8K Emily: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 5 destroyed, 9 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
287 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 6
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 49

Again, I'll take those losses anytime for such nice results.

PzB has taken his bombers out again, so I've put my LBA back on "naval attack" for this turn. Not only that, but I've been able to rebuild my air bases and am resting a good portion of my LBA.

I've also gotten a number of troops into Delhi. This is important to me because I like to be able to do air attacks from several locations. So far PzB hasn't sent any troops into Delhi proper, so he hasn't been able to stop my stragglers from coming in and reporting for duty. In fact, I now have so many troops in Delhi that I've been able to send an air support unit off to Lahore. Soon I will have yet another base from which to send off air strikes.

The battle continues in Ahmadabad:

Ground combat at Ahmadabad

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 137024 troops, 635 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 89684 troops, 367 guns, 793 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 3)

Japanese ground losses:
2690 casualties reported
Guns lost 67

Allied ground losses:
3211 casualties reported
Guns lost 56
Vehicles lost 26

The losses are getting closer and PzB isn't reducing the fortification levels. I may get my "5 day wish" (now 4 days.)

PzB has also chased my forces in the Indian/Burmese border back to where I want them to be. I've started to send out those Chinese troops from Mandalay to stir up trouble wherever they can. PzB is bombing me at will in that region, but I don't want to waste planes in there because I don't have enough supply to keep the planes airborne.

In the meanwhile, the big news to the East is that I am finally getting some transport task forces to bases where I have supply and fuel, so I can now start to send off supply and fuel to where it is needed. What is still frustrating is that there is a big tanker fleet off of Australia with lots of fuel in its tanks, but it can't refuel itself and it is almost out of fuel. So I will need to dock it in Rockhampton (the closest base) and refuel it there before I send it along the southern route to meet up with my ships that are slowly limping to safety. So with any luck I'll be able to get some fuel to Perth in a month instead of three. But with so many thirsty ships to the West of Australia, I'll probably drain that tanker fleet in one sitting.

BTW - the KB is still finding remnants of Wobbly's once proud invasion fleet:

Day Air attack on TF at 3,75

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 14
A6M3 Zero x 13
D3A Val x 11
B5N Kate x 12

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
DD Van Nes, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Maury, on fire, heavy damage

Day Air attack on TF at 3,75

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 34
D3A Val x 43
B5N Kate x 78

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
DD Maury, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

But PzB is also keeping one of his cruiser fleets a bit too close to shore:

Day Air attack on TF at 15,64

Allied aircraft
Hudson I x 9
A-20B Boston x 12
B-25C Mitchell x 20

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CA Chokai, Bomb hits 1
CA Myoko
CL Naka
DD Kuroshio, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Arashi, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Once again, I like those sort of results.

It appears that PzB has sent at least part of the KB back towards Java to try to catch my cripples there. So I've sent one set of cripples back towards Java, another one southwards, and my better ships are quietly sneaking away to a rendezvous location that I hope allows them to replenish themselves.

BTW 2 - I got those troops back over the mountain to Colombo, and there are lots of supplies there, so I'm building up the fortifications and preparing to do mischief.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 29

RE: July 10 - Death From the Skies - 3/6/2005 9:58:23 AM

wobbly

Posts: 1095
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline

Hmm reading it like this I neglected far too much.

A new view does bring a better if different view on things. I will flit all over the place a bit but you may gain some usefull info.

Supply - yes, big problem. Main reason behind that was of course the use of AKs to carry troops. Initially the whole invasion force was to attack Kwajalein, then that got changed to Rabaul and then that got changed to Java. It all took time that the AKs could have been using to move supplies - lets say things were a little pressing shall we

All of that was because he threw me such an impressive curve ball in India - headless chicken stuff. But that is why they weren't running backwards and forwards from the West Coast. I'd be interested to know if you usually set up a supply TF to Pearl and then others from there onwards - as you say - having the Gilberts at least makes this easier.

Now this is memory serving: Darwin had about 40K supplies and 50K fuel; Perth just got sucked dry but should have about 50K supplies; Townsville was the target of that large fuel TF you talked about - and that was a large Tf - 500K of fuel; 200K in Brisbane, 40K in PM; 100K in Sydney; 100K in Noumea; 90K in Auckland; 10K in Lunga with 7 on its way there; 40K in Tarawa; 400K in Pearl. This is not alot for continued Heavy bomber activity I'll admit, but it is hardly bones of your arse stuff.

Mid Pacific refueling can be done at Pago-Pago, Tarawa and Canton. Not at impressive amounts yet but enough to allow your surface force TFs to do their thing.

I also disagree with your retreat in Java - however you know the situation and play these things differently. I wouldn't want him having a free location to land troops - especially with a port the size of Batavia. I estimate you have 3 divisions to two of his guard units and sundires. All of his BBs except the Yamato and one other are against India if I count correctly - both of those BBs are in the yards due to air activity. Maybe the Hiei over in the Pacific. You don't have too much in the way of devastating Bombardments to put up with trying to take Batavia.

You have about 100000 supplies in total in Java. That is riches indeed when compaired to what the Japs take places with. However, you are worried about a supply problem yet you aren't continuing on the road to Batavia to take it's supply source????

The Jap troops holding Malang have been forced to retreat twice now. A bit of a rest and you will have them too.

I understand your retreat of the ships from Tjilitap but couldn't bring myself to do it - I felt certain they would all die too easily if his carriers were further out West. Now I put them in there in the first place so I cannot at all be critical. But I at least wanted to make them have to come through Tjilitap air first.

You also scoff at the fighters based there. Truthfully, even with the small numbers there they were doing very well. His zeros took an absolute battering and they all had to make a long trip to get there - unless they had to fly from Batavia!!

OK, fuel and supply to Perth. There is a fuel TF in the sea between Melbourne and Perth, it should be able to help you out a bit - only 27K but beter than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

Moving shipping up through the straits between New Guinea and Northern Oz is dangerous but was getting much needed supplies and fuel through. He had appeared to have halted scouting from the east of Timor and Lae. I had suppressed them pretty heavily for this reason.

There is the Oklahoma - North Carolina battlegroup on its way to Noumea - you may have missed that one.

China - all the troops on the trail towards Sian were rescuing the troops moving south through the jungles after being forced out of the North. He tried to cut them off with units along the trails. The Chinese forces are that bad at attacking I went for overkill. I didn't want those units cut off. A heads up: there are units Heading towards the Eastern cities in China. He has removed the units he had there. I wanted to keep ****ing him like you intend to do with the airforce. You may want to move those ground forces back, hell the whole place only has about 50K supplies - you may have to surrender it with that little

! Be ready for him to bomb the airfields you are flying out of in China - he does that often!

Mandalay has two army HQs, one was the chinese NCA one that just returned from down by Rangoon. The other two are air HQs that couldn't escape. Move them how you like but you have very little in the way of airfoces in Burma.

The troops in Ceylon were not in Columbo because he kept hammering them from Trimcommalee with Bombardment forces. Where they are they can stop a foray over the island and they will get back into town fast enough to defend the place if he invades - but agian, your choice.

The subs were taking a portion of the Southeast Asian HQ to Karachi to help bolster the fighting men at Ahlamabad. Why????

I thought I had blinded about the subs enough but I shall raise it again ALLIED SUB DOCTRINE IS ON!!!! THat's right, it got turned on by the game when we went from patch 2 to 3. Your subs are worthless for attacking! I have hit 2 ships in the entire game.

I'll just reiterate the situation I was in. He had me totally whacked with the Indian attack and I thought I would loose the game through the loss of India. This was the thinking behind the Java invasion. In truth the Java invasion reaped massive numbers of ships and ACs in better than 1-1 odds. I still don't know if those gains will be enough but I felt something drastic had to be done. You aren't up against the KB and his whole airforce in India because of it. I still think it is lost but you may manage to exact a certian measure of revenge because of this.

I hate quiting, it has left a seriously bad taste in my mouth. But I will say it is nice to see the luck turn. On your first turn getting 3 enemy magazine explosions, the bombers to fly against Bombay (they just wouldn't go for me - thought there were too many fighters defending) and Ahlamabad holding without losing a level of fortification. It appears the forces are under new management and enjoying it.

Good luck! I will read with great interest how you get out of my horrible mess up!

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 30