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Iwo Jima?

 
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Iwo Jima? - 6/21/2000 9:29:00 PM   
victorhauser

 

Posts: 318
Joined: 5/29/2000
From: austin, texas
Status: offline 		Now that the new, larger playing area is coming in Version 2.0, it's possible to put all of Iwo Jima on the map. And knowing of Wild Bill's previous Iwo Jima scenarios in The Operational Art of War and Steel Panthers, the question arises, "When should we expect an epic Iwo Jima scenario/campaign from you, Wild Bill?"

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VAH
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- 6/21/2000 9:34:00 PM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		ah, you know me too well, Victor. Well, we have Wake Island (you have not seen that one yet, then Betio. Now we'll do Iwo Jima, that is for sure. I am not sure whether to do an entire campaign or just a scenario. Then again, we could do a campaign and split up the scenarios for separate play also. That way, those who don't like campaigns could play the battles. What do you think, Victor? Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to victorhauser)
Post #: 2
- 6/21/2000 11:38:00 PM   
Elvis

 

Posts: 86
Joined: 6/20/2000
From: Clarion, PA
Status: offline 		As the entire battle involved 3 divisions and lasted 36 days, "mini" campaigns focusing on individual units could be devised. As an example, follow 1/28 (1st Bn. 28th Marines) through the course of the battle: [list]
  • Isolation of Mt. Suribachi (19 Feb)
  • Mt. Suribachi (21 Feb)
  • Hill 362A and Nishi Ridge(1-4 Mar)
  • "The Badlands"
  • "Bloody Gorge" (to 25 Mar) [/list] The possibilities are endless. You guys have reunited me with an old favorite (SP) and I can't thank you enough. And here I thought the days of hearing "You're playing that game again?" were over... ------------------ alea iacta est [email]sooperduk@hotmail.com[/email] [This message has been edited by Elvis (edited 06-21-2000).] [This message has been edited by Elvis (edited 06-21-2000).]

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    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. -- George Orwell

    (in reply to victorhauser)
    • Post #: 3
    - 6/22/2000 4:02:00 AM   
    Wild Bill

     

    Posts: 6821
    Joined: 4/7/2000
    From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
    Status: offline     		SOunds like a good line up to me, Elvis! I did an Iwo campaign in SP3, and I may try to adapt it or use some ideas for a campaign in SPWAW. I'll keep this list of yours. Thanks..Unless you're going to do it first The Kunel ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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    In Arduis Fidelis
    Wild Bill Wilder
    Independent Game Consultant

    (in reply to victorhauser)
    Post #: 4
    - 6/22/2000 6:34:00 PM   
    victorhauser

     

    Posts: 318
    Joined: 5/29/2000
    From: austin, texas
    Status: offline     		I like big battles. The bigger the better. Iwo Jima is a nearly perfect setting for a series of Human (USMC) vs. AI (Japanese) games. This is because the AI will not be required to make any of the maneuver decisions that so often get it into trouble in other Human vs. AI games. However, I believe that, given the basic Steel Panthers campaign format, the best way to showcase the Battle of Iwo Jima will be to present a series of "set-piece" battles rather than as a campaign. I look to you, Wild Bill. Your experience and knowledge both regarding Iwo Jima and designing BIG battles makes you the obvious choice to bring the black sands of Iwo Jima to life again via SPWAW.

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    VAH

    (in reply to victorhauser)
    Post #: 5
    - 6/22/2000 11:53:00 PM   
    Elvis

     

    Posts: 86
    Joined: 6/20/2000
    From: Clarion, PA
    Status: offline     		What I meant by "campaign" was actually exactly what Victor stated - a series of "set-piece" related battles along a common theme. Poor choice of words on my part - the morning coffee hadn't kicked in yet P.S. WB - I'd love to help out with any Iwo stuff (or Okinawa, Saipan, Bougainville, etc.) I have an extensive collection of info, and the fact that I was a Marine never hurts [This message has been edited by Elvis (edited 06-22-2000).]

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    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. -- George Orwell

    (in reply to victorhauser)
    Post #: 6
    - 6/23/2000 1:00:00 AM   
    Wild Bill

     

    Posts: 6821
    Joined: 4/7/2000
    From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
    Status: offline     		All right Leatherneck! We have a few already in our group...a riotous bunch. Warhorse is Semper Fi! Then there is Michael Reynolds in our Fields of Fire Group. We had a Seal, but the Marines eliminated that danger You address is not available. So drop me a line and we'll chat on the matter. WB ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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    In Arduis Fidelis
    Wild Bill Wilder
    Independent Game Consultant

    (in reply to victorhauser)
    Post #: 7
    - 6/23/2000 6:25:00 AM   
    bigjim

     

    Posts: 63
    Joined: 6/3/2000
    Status: offline     		heheh well my Dad was there and actually only a few of the 3rd division hit the island, he was one of them 3rd division, 21st marines, company I BigJim

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    (in reply to victorhauser)
    Post #: 8
    - 6/23/2000 7:52:00 AM   
    Wild Bill

     

    Posts: 6821
    Joined: 4/7/2000
    From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
    Status: offline     		Your Dad was a hero. Only one who hit those ash gray beaches can know what it was. Thanks for sharing that, big Jim!...WB ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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    In Arduis Fidelis
    Wild Bill Wilder
    Independent Game Consultant

    (in reply to victorhauser)
    Post #: 9
    - 6/24/2000 12:13:00 AM   
    bigjim

     

    Posts: 63
    Joined: 6/3/2000
    Status: offline     		Well Bill he and alot of other Marines, he didn't lose his life there like so many did, he is dead now but from natural causes, and yes is was a "hero" to me anyway . He told me that the first flag was just a "short stick with the flag on it" on top of the mountain, and the famous flag raising was later. His group took the airfields in the center of the island so they could only see the top of surubachi. BigJim

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    Post #: 10
    - 6/24/2000 6:08:00 AM   
    Wild Bill

     

    Posts: 6821
    Joined: 4/7/2000
    From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
    Status: offline     		The fact that he was there at all makes him a hero. Men died on that island at all points during the entire six weeks it took to totally subdue it. Many men preferred the front lines to the rear because the Japanese were shelling the supplies on the beaches (and the wounded who were being transported back to the fleet). There was never a "safe" place on Iwo. My helmet is off to the man. You should be proud and of course, you are. Just as I am of my Dad and his part in WW2. WB ==== ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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    Wild Bill Wilder
    Independent Game Consultant

    (in reply to victorhauser)
    Post #: 11
    - 6/25/2000 4:08:00 AM   
    bigjim

     

    Posts: 63
    Joined: 6/3/2000
    Status: offline     		Heh he did tell me the funniest thing he saw while there was a sailor on a Higgins boat giving flag signals while the japanese gunners were splashing shells all around him and the more they fired the faster he signaled. My dad thought that was a riot, if anything could be funny while under fire, I guess you had to be there to appreciate it

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    Post #: 12
    - 6/25/2000 9:43:00 AM   
    Wild Bill

     

    Posts: 6821
    Joined: 4/7/2000
    From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
    Status: offline     		I am picturing it and cracking up. Reminds me of the scene in "Tora, Tora, Tora," when the band speeded up the Star Spangled Banner during the raising of the flag on the Arizona, I think, while Japanese planes roared in over Pearl WB ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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    In Arduis Fidelis
    Wild Bill Wilder
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    (in reply to victorhauser)
    Post #: 13
    - 11/21/2001 8:47:00 AM   
    justicej

     

    Posts: 6
    Joined: 11/8/2001
    From: Columbus, Ohio
    Status: offline     		After the Marines dismount should the AMTRACKS stay or go back for reinforcements.

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    Post #: 14
    - 11/21/2001 9:06:00 AM   
    KG Erwin


    Posts: 8981
    Joined: 7/25/2000
    From: Cross Lanes WV USA
    Status: offline     		Joseph, there are NO reinforcements for the LVTs to go pick up. You have a 3rd Div Company arriving as reinforcements with their own organic transport. I've been wondering myself, what were the ground missions of the LVTs in Marine amphibious doctrine? Were they to travel inland as serve as mobile firing platforms? To mount casualties for return to the battalion aid stations? All of this remains unclear in my reading of Marine Amphib operations. I get the general impression they were meant to get the marines ashore, dismount them, and provide direct fire support in the initial landings. After that, I don't know. Anyone have some info on this?

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    Post #: 15
    - 11/21/2001 1:41:00 PM   
    Wild Bill

     

    Posts: 6821
    Joined: 4/7/2000
    From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
    Status: offline     		The terrain on Iwo Jima was very rough on any vehicles, even tracked ones. LVTs were withdawn and preserved for later invasions. They were used for transporting wounded and bringing in supplies but their main function as landing craft precluded their continual use in the war. Ahead were Okinawa and possibly the invasion of Japan, and every available LVT would be needed for those. Wild Bill

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    In Arduis Fidelis
    Wild Bill Wilder
    Independent Game Consultant

    (in reply to victorhauser)
    Post #: 16
    - 11/21/2001 8:54:00 PM   
    Warhorse


    Posts: 5712
    Joined: 5/12/2000
    From: Birdsboro, PA, USA
    Status: offline     		I had the honor, while I was in the Marines, serving in the 3rd FMFPAC, to land there, for the 40th anniversary!! I was carrying my gear, plus the spare barrel bag for the .30 cal MG, I jumped off the trac, and promptly sunk up almost to my knees in that black sand!! It really dawned on me, how it must have been for our boys, you could not even move fast to get under cover, which, even now is almost non-existent. We were only allowed to venture into the 2nd berm line, and did some training, and a lot of Japanese and US reporters were there to document it, quite impressive to have walked on a legend, albeit a very bloody, costly one.... There are still a lower hull assembly of an amtrak in the sand, and lots of 20mm rounds laying around in the sand, they shot these at our guys, once they hit the shore.

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    Mike Amos

    Meine Ehre heißt Treue
    www.cslegion.com

    (in reply to victorhauser)
    Post #: 17
    - 11/21/2001 10:44:00 PM   
    Wild Bill

     

    Posts: 6821
    Joined: 4/7/2000
    From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
    Status: offline     		Thanks, Warhorse. I envy you, of course. To be there, even 40+ years later, must have left you in awe. And to catch just a tiny bit of the feeling of those kids as they tumbled out of those LVTs onto that floating volcano...wow. Thanks for sharing. WB

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    In Arduis Fidelis
    Wild Bill Wilder
    Independent Game Consultant

    (in reply to victorhauser)
    Post #: 18
    - 11/22/2001 12:16:00 AM   
    Warhorse


    Posts: 5712
    Joined: 5/12/2000
    From: Birdsboro, PA, USA
    Status: offline     		I have some pictures I took, while there, I could have someone maybe post them, I have no website myself to do so, maybe they could help in scenario design, who knows!!

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    Mike Amos

    Meine Ehre heißt Treue
    www.cslegion.com

    (in reply to victorhauser)
    Post #: 19
    - 11/22/2001 12:22:00 AM   
    bobaloo000

     

    Posts: 52
    Joined: 5/19/2001
    From: Jackson, NJ
    Status: offline     		Where can we get this campaign?

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    Post #: 20
    - 11/22/2001 9:20:00 AM   
    CaptainBrian

     

    Posts: 59
    Joined: 12/27/2000
    From: California
    Status: offline
    quote:

    Originally posted by Warhorse:
    I had the honor, while I was in the Marines, serving in the 3rd FMFPAC, to land there, for the 40th anniversary!! I was carrying my gear, plus the spare barrel bag for the .30 cal MG, I jumped off the trac, and promptly sunk up almost to my knees in that black sand!! It really dawned on me, how it must have been for our boys, you could not even move fast to get under cover, which, even now is almost non-existent. We were only allowed to venture into the 2nd berm line, and did some training, and a lot of Japanese and US reporters were there to document it, quite impressive to have walked on a legend, albeit a very bloody, costly one.... There are still a lower hull assembly of an amtrak in the sand, and lots of 20mm rounds laying around in the sand, they shot these at our guys, once they hit the shore.
    I was able to go there 6 years ago and standing on top of Suribachi looking at the landing beaches I can only imagine the flanking, enfilade fire the Japanese were able to pour into the waves as they came ashore. I'll also verify Warhorse's statements about how deep the sand is and how it inhibits movement. I could hardly walk much less run in it. It's a wonder anyone made it ashore.

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    CaptainBrian

    (in reply to victorhauser)
    Post #: 21
    - 11/22/2001 1:07:00 PM   
    Wild Bill

     

    Posts: 6821
    Joined: 4/7/2000
    From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
    Status: offline     		I can send you the SP3 Campaign if you wish Babaloo. Just e-mail me. We don't have a campaign (yet!) for Iwo Jima in SPWAW...WB

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    In Arduis Fidelis
    Wild Bill Wilder
    Independent Game Consultant

    (in reply to victorhauser)
    Post #: 22
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