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PMEM or not? - 3/23/2005 2:22:38 PM   
2gaulle

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 2/16/2004
From: Montreal
Status: offline 		Loook great but is it as stupid as RTW or does it have PBEM
Post #: 1
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/23/2005 4:19:02 PM   
ericbabe


Posts: 11927
Joined: 3/23/2005
Status: offline 		We have talked with Matrix about PBEM and plan to introduce it in a patch after release. The current design of COG is very interactive between players so the PBEM version will take a bit of work.

(in reply to 2gaulle)
Post #: 2
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/23/2005 6:59:04 PM   
Strat

 

Posts: 40
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: comfy chair
Status: offline 		I just want it, now..

Good show.

Strat...



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Well in theory.

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Post #: 3
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/24/2005 5:00:39 AM   
2gaulle

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 2/16/2004
From: Montreal
Status: offline
quote:

We have talked with Matrix about PBEM and plan to introduce it in a patch after release. The current design of COG is very interactive between players so the PBEM version will take a bit of work.


sorry but it's look like a non sens.
your interactive design is perhaps very interesting but if only a few could play where is the interest?

Realy I couldn't understand. It's easely to do a survey.
Ask how many multiplayer game have been made with TIM and How many PBEM they are with BIN.
Ask also what players prefer, less interactivity with PBEM or more with no PBEM.

there are nothing urgent, personaly I prefer waiting for a good game that stay more than a month in my computer.

< Message edited by 2gaulle -- 3/24/2005 5:06:41 AM >

(in reply to Strat)
Post #: 4
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/24/2005 5:14:37 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Gentlemen,

I assure you there are many non-PBEM multi-player games that have enjoyed success. Personally, I'm very much looking forward to doing some multiplayer CoG over the internet and on my home LAN with friends and colleagues. The concern over lack of PBEM has been noted and we're discussing getting it into a post-release update. However, please look over the rest of the features before focusing only on the modes of play. You should enjoy this one whether single or multi-player.

Regards,

- Erik

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(in reply to 2gaulle)
Post #: 5
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/24/2005 5:26:43 AM   
2gaulle

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 2/16/2004
From: Montreal
Status: offline
quote:

Personally, I'm very much looking forward to doing some multiplayer CoG over the internet and on my home LAN with friends and colleagues


Perhaps you could play at work but not everybody could.


quote:


I assure you there are many non-PBEM multi-player games that have enjoyed success.


Made a survey with your customer!
Most of multi-player sucess game are short game like Diablo.
Whis game like CoG you must made appointment.
Again made a survey. How many player have been able to finish a multi-player games with no PBEM? It's allready very difficult with PBEM.






(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 6
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/24/2005 12:58:39 PM   
steveh11Matrix


Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		It's perfectly possible to play MP games that are NOT PBEM. I don't see the attraction of playing against other humans over then net at all myself - if I want to play against a Human, it'll be Face-to-Face, so we can enjoy the social aspect. But for those who like that sort of thing, you can even play RTS or even air sims over then net.

What I do counsel against is trying to shoehorn in any kind of PBEM system that compromises the orginal design. If it can be made to work without damaging the 'standard' game, then fine.

Just as long as there's no delay in release, either!
Steve.

_____________________________

"Nature always obeys Her own laws" - Leonardo da Vinci

(in reply to 2gaulle)
Post #: 7
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/24/2005 1:02:15 PM   
Iñaki Harrizabalagatar


Posts: 825
Joined: 12/11/2001
Status: offline 		I have to agree with thw dificulties of on line multiplayer. From my experience in Europa Universalis 2 it
1) You need a forum to date for a game, a forum with plenty of gamers, because it is very difficult to accord times. The time gap determine that there are American games and European games.
2) You need an on line room to meet
3) After overcoming those, there are always players dropping because of connection problems, and when the host drops you need a way to quickly come back to the room to regroup
4) The more time the game takes, the more difficult to keep players in, besides, when a player see he is going badly in the game too many times he will drop out
5) To sum up, MP games are difficult to arrange, frustrating to play and they are rarely completed. This last problem could maybe be adressed with a ladder, in which players get extra points for finshing games. Pointsd awarded according to final position in the run for glory would be also a good idea, so that even if you can´t win you still can fight for position
Just my 2 cents

(in reply to 2gaulle)
Post #: 8
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/24/2005 2:45:17 PM   
2gaulle

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 2/16/2004
From: Montreal
Status: offline
quote:

. I don't see the attraction of playing against other humans over then net at all myself


without game against a Human you will never have a challanging game.

Actualy and for many years AI would never be a real challenger.that also why wargame are so interesting, no strategy could be codify completly.

quote:

- if I want to play against a Human, it'll be Face-to-Face, so we can enjoy the social aspect.


so play boardgame

(in reply to Iñaki Harrizabalagatar)
Post #: 9
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/24/2005 5:09:52 PM   
ericbabe


Posts: 11927
Joined: 3/23/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix
It's perfectly possible to play MP games that are NOT PBEM. I don't see the attraction of playing against other humans over then net at all myself - if I want to play against a Human, it'll be Face-to-Face, so we can enjoy the social aspect. But


My old college buddies and many of my family members are now dispersed throughout the country. We keep in contact by scheduling gaming sessions over the internet. Delays waiting for other players to finish aren't as tedious when one has friends and family to chat with.



(in reply to steveh11Matrix)
Post #: 10
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/24/2005 5:10:47 PM   
HobbesACW


Posts: 419
Joined: 2/20/2004
From: UK
Status: offline 		I'll be sure to buy it - once it has a PBEM option


(in reply to ericbabe)
Post #: 11
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/24/2005 6:35:49 PM   
steveh11Matrix


Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 2gaulle


quote:

- if I want to play against a Human, it'll be Face-to-Face, so we can enjoy the social aspect.


so play boardgame



Well: I do play boardgames, or f-t-f (actually, back to back) on my home LAN

I guess this is a case where the "vociferous minority" (my phrase) will want things their way, and the rest of us will ignore it provided it doesn't delay the game.

If we all were the same life would be tediously dull - so provided we can all have fun and perhaps a little education out of this game, who cares how we play it?

Steve.

_____________________________

"Nature always obeys Her own laws" - Leonardo da Vinci

(in reply to 2gaulle)
Post #: 12
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/24/2005 8:00:40 PM   
2gaulle

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 2/16/2004
From: Montreal
Status: offline
quote:

My old college buddies and many of my family members are now dispersed throughout the country. We keep in contact by scheduling gaming sessions over the internet. Delays waiting for other players to finish aren't as tedious when one has friends and family to chat with.


one minute please!

do you want we change the way to play according to your design?
doesn't it sound more logical to have a design according to the play of your customer???

again do a survey!!!!

Don't know if your game is good or not, so far it't look great but unfortunatly your attitude is not close to your customer.


(in reply to steveh11Matrix)
Post #: 13
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/24/2005 8:03:36 PM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 2gaulle

quote:

My old college buddies and many of my family members are now dispersed throughout the country. We keep in contact by scheduling gaming sessions over the internet. Delays waiting for other players to finish aren't as tedious when one has friends and family to chat with.


one minute please!

do you want we change the way to play according to your design?
doesn't it sound more logical to have a design according to the play of your customer???

again do a survey!!!!

Don't know if your game is good or not, so far it't look great but unfortunatly your attitude is not close to your customer.




Buddy, they´re looking into PBEM as it has been stated. Okay?

I really would like to know why you´re so mad all the time. Drink a beer and chill a bit

_____________________________

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(in reply to 2gaulle)
Post #: 14
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/24/2005 8:07:10 PM   
2gaulle

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 2/16/2004
From: Montreal
Status: offline
quote:


I really would like to know why you´re so mad all the time. Drink a beer and chill a bit


you are also very agresive some time, but me I'm a customer and Customer are King


I'm also fed up of all those game that's look great but finaly didn't stay alive more than a month!

< Message edited by 2gaulle -- 3/24/2005 8:14:11 PM >

(in reply to Marc von Martial)
Post #: 15
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/24/2005 8:26:46 PM   
Pippin


Posts: 1233
Joined: 11/9/2002
Status: offline 		Well I for one could not care less if PBEM were added. I find PBEM far too slow, undynamic, and just not as fun as having your opponents and allies with you chatting about your current moves.

_____________________________

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(in reply to 2gaulle)
Post #: 16
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/24/2005 9:56:57 PM   
ioticus

 

Posts: 187
Joined: 6/13/2004
Status: offline 		I find PBEM games too slow. I have nothing against PBEM, but would hate to see a brilliant, interactive design compromised in an attempt to shoehorn PBEM. 2gaulle, just because you don't care about single-player games with AI doesn't mean it's not important for a lot of wargamers. There are plenty of games out there that can be played PBEM. Don't try to force your pet feature on anyone else. By the way, I think that survey you want would not go in your favor.

(in reply to Pippin)
Post #: 17
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/25/2005 1:30:37 AM   
2gaulle

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 2/16/2004
From: Montreal
Status: offline
quote:

2gaulle, just because you don't care about single-player games with AI doesn't mean it's not important for a lot of wargamers.


I have nothing again single-player games with AI but unfortunatly I never find a challanging AI! do you?

I think it's more unrealistisc to ask a challanging AI than a decent PBEM.

quote:

. By the way, I think that survey you want would not go in your favor.


do it and I will join the majority








(in reply to ioticus)
Post #: 18
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/25/2005 2:04:57 AM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		To the person who has sent the developer

"Speaking of PBEM feedback, I have actually received threatening and overtly insulting emails from the pro-PBEM faction. Other email messages from this group have taken a very ungentlemanly tone. At this I must express a certain astonishment. I had no notion that adults could be so viscerally uncivil to men whom they do not know over such a thing as a mode of playing a computer game."

Shame on you.

When you goto buy a car you don't go sending abusive letters to the manufactorer because it wasn't an Automatic. Or if you gto buy a HiFi you don't go sending abusive letters because it didn't play MP3's.
You go and buy something else as the Car/HiFi/Game isn't right for you.

(in reply to 2gaulle)
Post #: 19
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/25/2005 2:15:55 AM   
2gaulle

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 2/16/2004
From: Montreal
Status: offline 		Wodin when I have something to said/write I always do in public and so I didn't send any email.

Somewhere I'm Shocking by your attack




(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 20
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/25/2005 3:08:02 AM   
donkuchi19


Posts: 1062
Joined: 3/14/2004
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline 		People need to understand that the customer isn't always right. Sometimes the customer is an idiot. I was at a restaurant today and a customer started complaining that he was allergic to something that was in the food that he ordered. It was right in the description of the item on the menu. He didn't specify this when he ordered it and then had the nerve to complain about it. (I saw the whole transaction) The waitress isn't a psychic and had no way of knowing. My point is, if it has what you want, buy it. If it doesn't don't slam it, just don't buy it. Vote with your dollars (or whatever other currency you have) and be civil about it. You also don't have to beat a dead horse. They said they were looking into it, give them a chance. They can't change everything in one day because one person wants a new feature.

(in reply to 2gaulle)
Post #: 21
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/25/2005 3:54:45 AM   
Pippin


Posts: 1233
Joined: 11/9/2002
Status: offline
quote:


I have nothing again single-player games with AI but unfortunatly I never find a challanging AI! do you?


I certainly have. Many people have stopped playing chess & checkers on computers because the AI is just too damn tuff these days. Humans ask for challenges, but can't stand it when they have no hope of even winning.


_____________________________

Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves…

(in reply to donkuchi19)
Post #: 22
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/25/2005 4:28:31 AM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 2gaulle

quote:


I really would like to know why you´re so mad all the time. Drink a beer and chill a bit


you are also very agresive some time, but me I'm a customer and Customer are King


I'm also fed up of all those game that's look great but finaly didn't stay alive more than a month!


Sure, but the king´s gotta watch it´s poeple too

*matrix offical mode of*
------------------------
Also I´m somtimes "agressive" because I get life threads and what not by gamers that I only want to please. Simply because of the fact that these very gamers do not read game announcement correctly or take themselves WAY too important in the sense of that their prefered play mode is WORD. You know I don´t write nasty emails too Porsche simply because of the fact I don´t like the gear on their new car project.

What goes around comes around!

------------------------
*matrix offical mode on*

< Message edited by Marc Schwanebeck -- 3/25/2005 4:41:54 AM >

_____________________________

Marc von Martial
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(in reply to 2gaulle)
Post #: 23
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/25/2005 4:31:40 AM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

do it and I will join the majority


We allready did it, IIRC a year ago, it was almost split, with a PBEM not in the lead. Which does not mean we dont care about PBEM as you might possibly have noted senor 2gaulle

Read the threads and you will note that the developer is looking into PBEM, okay.

< Message edited by Marc Schwanebeck -- 3/25/2005 4:43:34 AM >

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(in reply to 2gaulle)
Post #: 24
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/25/2005 4:46:59 AM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: donkuchi

People need to understand that the customer isn't always right. Sometimes the customer is an idiot. I was at a restaurant today and a customer started complaining that he was allergic to something that was in the food that he ordered. It was right in the description of the item on the menu. He didn't specify this when he ordered it and then had the nerve to complain about it. (I saw the whole transaction) The waitress isn't a psychic and had no way of knowing. My point is, if it has what you want, buy it. If it doesn't don't slam it, just don't buy it. Vote with your dollars (or whatever other currency you have) and be civil about it. You also don't have to beat a dead horse. They said they were looking into it, give them a chance. They can't change everything in one day because one person wants a new feature.


BRAVO,

An experience I had last week in Rome. An italian customer refused to pay for a meal (at the table next too me) cause he ordered "Spaghetti a la Carbonara" the jerk (an italian, who should know his stuff btw) complained about the fact that the meal had "parmesan cheese" on it !!!! He complaint about "parmesan" on "Spaghetti a la Carbonara", that´s almost like complaining about round wheels on a car !

_____________________________

Marc von Martial
instagram stream

(in reply to donkuchi19)
Post #: 25
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/25/2005 5:04:51 AM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 2gaulle

Wodin when I have something to said/write I always do in public and so I didn't send any email.

Somewhere I'm Shocking by your attack






Never mentioned you!

So why do you think I directed it at you?

It never crossed my mind. The post was directed at the person who sent the developer emails. So if it wasn't you then why are you saying I'm attacking you?

(in reply to 2gaulle)
Post #: 26
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/25/2005 5:52:10 AM   
2gaulle

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 2/16/2004
From: Montreal
Status: offline 		this world is realy crasy , it's a new world were we could only said that all is perfect.

sory Matrix, sory Mister Marc Schwanebeck if I was not in the line of the Party.

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 27
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/25/2005 6:01:07 AM   
2gaulle

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 2/16/2004
From: Montreal
Status: offline
quote:

I certainly have. Many people have stopped playing chess & checkers on computers because the AI is just too damn tuff these days. Humans ask for challenges, but can't stand it when they have no hope of even winning.


chess and wargame are very different regarding AI.
With Chess, the terrain and the unit are limited and are all the time the same.
the AI in chess is done on a studing of all the old game, something absolutly impossible with wargame.



(in reply to 2gaulle)
Post #: 28
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/25/2005 6:03:33 AM   
2gaulle

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 2/16/2004
From: Montreal
Status: offline
quote:


Never mentioned you!

So why do you think I directed it at you?


unfortunatly your post was in reply to me!

look like his majesty Marc Schwanebeck have made the same attack
(You know I don´t write nasty emails too Porsche simply because of the fact I don´t like the gear on their new car project.)

(in reply to 2gaulle)
Post #: 29
RE: PMEM or not? - 3/25/2005 6:04:51 AM   
2gaulle

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 2/16/2004
From: Montreal
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

quote:

ORIGINAL: donkuchi

People need to understand that the customer isn't always right. Sometimes the customer is an idiot. I was at a restaurant today and a customer started complaining that he was allergic to something that was in the food that he ordered. It was right in the description of the item on the menu. He didn't specify this when he ordered it and then had the nerve to complain about it. (I saw the whole transaction) The waitress isn't a psychic and had no way of knowing. My point is, if it has what you want, buy it. If it doesn't don't slam it, just don't buy it. Vote with your dollars (or whatever other currency you have) and be civil about it. You also don't have to beat a dead horse. They said they were looking into it, give them a chance. They can't change everything in one day because one person wants a new feature.


BRAVO,

An experience I had last week in Rome. An italian customer refused to pay for a meal (at the table next too me) cause he ordered "Spaghetti a la Carbonara" the jerk (an italian, who should know his stuff btw) complained about the fact that the meal had "parmesan cheese" on it !!!! He complaint about "parmesan" on "Spaghetti a la Carbonara", that´s almost like complaining about round wheels on a car !
quote:

!


Look like you have a great respect for your customer!

(in reply to Marc von Martial)
Post #: 30
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