Pearl Harbor...possible to capture?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> Pearl Harbor...possible to capture?

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Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/1/2005 2:01:56 PM

riley555a

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Hi. Has anyone here ever managed to capture Pearl Harbor? it seems impossible, right now the AI has 102,000 troops, 1110 guns and 130 vehicles there (that army seems to be growing rapidly by the day). It seems like any landing there would be utterly mown down before they even got half-way off the beach. Forget about bombing the port, I tried that twice, the amount of flak there is amazing. It's downright merciless, I'd send in a raid and it would be met by an absolute torrent of flak fire, 60%+ bomber losses. Oh well, this rules, such a huge challenge. Anywho, has anyone here captured it?

< Message edited by riley555 -- 4/1/2005 3:23:28 PM >

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RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/1/2005 4:15:36 PM

String

Posts: 2661
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From: Estonia
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Yes it is, Read an AAR *cantrememberthename* vs Zeta hirohito style .. or sth like that.

The japanese player intentionally took a VERY agressive approach in the beginning and took PH, not without losses though

(in reply to riley555a)

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RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/1/2005 4:51:09 PM

AmiralLaurent

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From: Near Paris, France
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In December 1941, Japan can take PH if he uses its whole Navy and half of troops of Southern Area. But that will probably delay the seizing of SRA by 2 or 3 months and is not worth the price IMOO.

The whole operation will also depend of Kido Butai support and even in Dec 1941 US CVs can score vs Japanese CV with fatigued airgroups.

Taking PH after SRA is probably impossible, except if the Allied player overcommited in Southern Pacific. In summer 1942 Japan may use about 10 divisions in offensive operations. 2 or 3 divisions in PH should be enough to resist a landing attempt.

(in reply to String)

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RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/1/2005 5:55:48 PM

riley555a

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I took Lihu and i'm now engaged in a Battle of Britain type battle. I'm totally owning of course, the American airgroups at Pearl Harbor are no match for me. Haven't had much trouble with flak this time around, seems to only be that way when im bombing the port. I'm gonna turn Lihu into a major base and relentlessly pound Pearl Harbor day in and day out with 300+ Level bombers, 50-100 Fighter escorts and probably 150 dive/torpedo bombers. For my first task I was gonna damage the airfield to 100% then the port, Then destroy any ships in the area, then concentrate all my aircraft on the ground forces, bomb them for 2-4 weeks, do about 10 naval bombardments then invade with 100,000 men, does that sound like the best action? I reckon I'll need at least 300,000 fuel at Lihu.... Bah such a huge and risky undertaking I think I'll just damage the airfield and ports to max, harass the US navy 24/7 and just basically besiege pearl harbor...Because ALOT of shipping goes through there. That'd probably be the best and most efficient way to deal with Pearl...Any thoughts?

< Message edited by riley555 -- 4/1/2005 6:00:02 PM >

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RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/1/2005 5:56:27 PM

jeanbart_MF

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I agree with amirallaurent, a japanase success in PH won't prevent any american reinforcement because PH is not an arrival aera for US units...

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RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/2/2005 3:24:19 AM

Zeta16

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From: Columbus. Ohio
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You can take it WitpDude did aganist me. But the cost was high and cost him a lot. I just waited and took it back in 43 after taking Kona and Hilo first. IT is really pointless to take to far away but to be a pain for the Japanese to resupply.

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RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/2/2005 11:51:33 AM

riley555a

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Yea but you have to advance on America sooner or later...

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RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/2/2005 10:43:33 PM

AmiralLaurent

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I you want to advance after seizing the SRA, you can take oll Pacific Islands. Or you can invade Alaska. Or take Midway and hope the USN will come and play and lose.

All these tactics will allow you to score points, especially when destroying Allied troops unable to retreat of islands, and will be easier than taking PH.

But the best way to deal with America is to wait for the first Allied move in the Pacific and crush it with all you have.

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RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/3/2005 12:43:10 AM

kaiser73

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well, far better to go for New Zealand then. you take it (and the pacific islands), and you have isolated Australia. USA will have an hard time atacking, since they will be forced to go through central pacific.

Much better than going for PH.

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RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/3/2005 4:13:07 AM

Blackwatch_it

Posts: 247
Joined: 2/6/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: riley555

Hi. Has anyone here ever managed to capture Pearl Harbor? it seems impossible, right now the AI has 102,000 troops, 1110 guns and 130 vehicles there (that army seems to be growing rapidly by the day). It seems like any landing there would be utterly mown down before they even got half-way off the beach. Forget about bombing the port, I tried that twice, the amount of flak there is amazing. It's downright merciless, I'd send in a raid and it would be met by an absolute torrent of flak fire, 60%+ bomber losses. Oh well, this rules, such a huge challenge. Anywho, has anyone here captured it?

I agree with AmiralLaurent: taking PH is not worth the cost of such a massive operation.
Japan needs resources and oil, so needs DEI, Malaysia and Burma.
Going for PH would dealy and make much more difficult to capture DEI and also to set a defensive perimeter in SoPac.
And again I agree with AmiarlLaurent: best startegy is to wait for the Allied offensive and make it very expensive.

(in reply to riley555a)

Post #: 10

RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/14/2005 5:28:57 PM

duckenf

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From: London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zeta16

You can take it WitpDude did aganist me. But the cost was high and cost him a lot. I just waited and took it back in 43 after taking Kona and Hilo first. IT is really pointless to take to far away but to be a pain for the Japanese to resupply.

Yes, taking NZ would have been better. WitPDude failed in his attempt to get NZ from you because you timed the strengthening of your resistance perfectly, but he would have succeeded if he had had the extra 100,000 troops from PH.

But taking PH isn't necessarily a bad idea - it's what you do with it after you take it.

One possibility though is to take PH and hold it with a minimal garrison since the US will be able to eliminate any troops that are there when they come back in 1943. That way you kill all the US troops, have use of the PH base but won't suffer the troop losses of trying to hold it, or anywhere near the supply drain of getting food and ammo halfway across the Pacific. It also frees up the troops for other adventures (Alaska, NZ, SRA, Australia?).

Speaking of your old game -- will you resume it when the new patch comes out if it deals with the Zekes problem?

(in reply to Zeta16)

Post #: 11

RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/14/2005 7:33:51 PM

Mr.Frag

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Trick question really.

If the Allied player does a bonehead move and strips it to make the Oz/Noumea area tougher, then go for it. Against a regular person who doesn't try and win the war on turn 1, it is impossible to take.

1.5 will make it even tougher as damage to ships *also* causes damage to the guys inside. No more landing troops from 99% damage ships

It is up to you as Japan to be mindful of what can be brought to bear against you and try and keep track of it.

If a bunch of large INF formations show up somewhere, they came from somewhere ELSE.

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Post #: 12

RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/14/2005 7:51:09 PM

harrer

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Just a question Mr Frag : which HQ need the troops to invade PH with the most efficiency ? Is Southern Area Army good ? Also for India, There is a Birma HQ ..we need to change our Southern area army troops for it ? Or can we invade India with the same HQ (southern area army) ?

Thanks

Harrer

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RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/14/2005 9:01:40 PM

Mr.Frag

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You want to use one of the HQ's that has the smallest number of units reporting to it as the larger ones are going to cause problems for MANY units as pretty much everything will be outside of the range.

Remember the 21 hex rule for replacements. If you are outside that range, you don't get the goods, they get formed as units at the HQ so you could seriously screw up your airforce.

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RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/14/2005 9:14:12 PM

harrer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

You want to use one of the HQ's that has the smallest number of units reporting to it as the larger ones are going to cause problems for MANY units as pretty much everything will be outside of the range.

Remember the 21 hex rule for replacements. If you are outside that range, you don't get the goods, they get formed as units at the HQ so you could seriously screw up your airforce.

Thanks

Harrer

(in reply to Mr.Frag)

Post #: 15

RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/14/2005 11:53:16 PM

BraveHome

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

1.5 will make it even tougher as damage to ships *also* causes damage to the guys inside. No more landing troops from 99% damage ships

Curious if there was a parallel change to the chance to be picked up from a sunk (sinking?) ship by other ships in the TF, to go along with this additional troop damage factor?

Thanks!

(in reply to Mr.Frag)

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RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/15/2005 3:57:31 AM

Mr.Frag

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quote:

Curious if there was a parallel change to the chance to be picked up from a sunk (sinking?) ship by other ships in the TF, to go along with this additional troop damage factor?

Sinkings work like this:

1/3 of the unit is lost immediately then the remains roll to see how much is picked up by other ships. It can be anywhere from another 1/3 to the rest.

(in reply to BraveHome)

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RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/15/2005 6:13:48 AM

scout1

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quote:

Remember the 21 hex rule for replacements. If you are outside that range, you don't get the goods, they get formed as units at the HQ so you could seriously screw up your airforce.

Is that 21 hexes from the theater HQ they'rre assigned to, or the various air HQ's that get scattered about ?

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Post #: 18

RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/15/2005 1:58:33 PM

tsimmonds

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It's the area command HQ of the base they are on.

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RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/15/2005 3:15:09 PM

String

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I just try to get 20k Supplies to any airfield i base significant airpower from. Instant replacements.

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RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/15/2005 4:08:00 PM

castor troy

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Yeah, best way to get replacements! Even for the Japanese it�s not that a problem to suplly the major airbases with 20000+ supplies.

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RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/15/2005 7:09:53 PM

BraveHome

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Sinkings work like this:

1/3 of the unit is lost immediately then the remains roll to see how much is picked up by other ships. It can be anywhere from another 1/3 to the rest.

Thanks!

(in reply to Mr.Frag)

Post #: 22

RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/16/2005 1:00:34 AM

scout1

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From: South Bend, In
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quote:

It's the area command HQ of the base they are on.

OK,

There's a sublety here that I should know, but not quite getting. Each base is assigned to a theater HQ (same as an area HQ, i think). Now if an airgroup is split up and spread all over hells creation to new bases, which will draw replacements

a) only those within 21 hexes of the "A" group
b) only those within 21 hexes of a base (any base) that shares a common theater HQ as the airgroup
c) some other permutation ?

(in reply to tsimmonds)

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RE: Pearl Harbor...possible to capture? - 4/16/2005 2:38:53 AM

tabpub

Posts: 1019
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From: The Greater Chicagoland Area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: scout1

quote:

It's the area command HQ of the base they are on.

OK,

There's a sublety here that I should know, but not quite getting. Each base is assigned to a theater HQ (same as an area HQ, i think). Now if an airgroup is split up and spread all over hells creation to new bases, which will draw replacements

a) only those within 21 hexes of the "A" group
b) only those within 21 hexes of a base (any base) that shares a common theater HQ as the airgroup
c) some other permutation ?

Are we discussing airgroups or land units? I believe the land units follow the above routine, which simply stated is be within xx hexes of your assigned HQs location or have beaucoup supplies at units location.

Airgroups set to take replacements get them directly if:
A: Air units location has 20K+ supply; or
B: Air units designated HQ is within transfer range x2 of the particular aircraft and there is 20K+ supply with the HQ at its location.

If the air unit is further away from its HQ than the above, a fragment unit will form and it will be up to the player to find it and manually get the two together.

Example from my PBEM; Wirraway (16 strength unit) based in Derby takes 8 losses; it is set to Take Replacements. As Derby does not have 20K+ supply, a fragment of 8 Wirraways is formed in Sydney (home of the Australia Command to which the Wirraway parent unit is assigned). Then, since Derby was in the process of being overrun by nasty people, they entrained and went to Perth, where they linked up with the fragment that was railed in from Sydney...voila!

That is my experience and understanding of the situation....yours might differ.

(in reply to scout1)

Post #: 24

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