Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigB

make a game that plays like a documentary and still keeps people involved

then you can keep your whining realist happy

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigB

make a game that plays like a documentary and still keeps people involved

then you can keep your whining realist happy

quote:

In WITP players use wire guided depth charges with Kablammo (TM), a special explosive designed by the folks at WITP to make individual DCs not only near 75% accurate, but nearly always fatal too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigB

make a game that plays like a documentary and still keeps people involved

then you can keep your whining realist happy

Geezus Eff Crisco! I am getting pissed at the obvious ignorance out there. Yes some of us are bitching about some aspects of the game because it is ahistorical. This is not because of players using ahistorical tactics with historical assets and with the physical realities of the period intact. We are pissed that "THE GAME HAS FUDGED SO MANY ASPECTS OF THE ISSUE THAT PLAYERS CAN SUCCEED USING THEIR AHISTORICALLY REPRESENTED ASSETS AHISTORICALLY".

If the game came close to modelling the realities, ahistorical tactics would not work. Making Bombardment TFs and shutting down bases with them nightly would not work. Look at the picture below. This is USS Maryland rearming. Does this look like a drive through fast food joint? Sorry, but tasks like this were major evolutions which took hours, days even, not the instantaneous add water and stir imaginations of Captain Abstract and the Fantasy Fops.

See the ship next to it? It is an ammunition stores ship, and unlike WITP, can only really be in one place at a time. This being so, it would take six of these, or considerably more ammunition lighters or quayside pier space to handle the six BBs used in the recent Pago Pago Bombardment TF example posted in the "Nuke Thread." As one can imagine, the ability to rearm 1 ship or a thousand without restriction in any port as WITP allows is complete BS and basic design EFF UPs like this (and many are repeated from game to game, generation to generation) make any art and detail bells and whistles added since PACWAR totally pointless.

Notice the ammo bags? These look kinda unique, don't they? Well, they are. They are specifically designed for the mark of gun used on the three Colorado Class BBs in the US Navy, and as such, had to be brought in special for these ships. Same with the shell. Guess that would mean that their availability in the game would be at least limited to lets say USN Ammunition ships, Ports with US Naval Base units, largergest of US Naval bases like Pearl Harbor, Mare Island, San Francisco, etc?.........wait for it.......NOT SO! In WITP, this specialty, unique, and limited in supply ammo is available at any cove near you, and in amounts equal to such basic staples as beans, spam, smokes, powdered eggs, asshole bosses...







This is the kind of stuff that allows ahistorical results. We are not asking for a history book. We are asking for a history template with which to play out the history in whatever way circumstances allow it to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Here is another example. Players forming ASW TFs with DDs which had 1940's DCs and sound gear would and should not bag you submarines in WITP as often as heads comes up in a coin toss. But they do. Why? Here we go...take it George.

"In WITP players use wire guided depth charges with Kablammo (TM), a special explosive designed by the folks at WITP to make individual DCs not only near 75% accurate, but nearly always fatal too.

IRL they used depth charges which were unguided and had basic TNT, Torpex, or some other traditional explosive trigged by timers or depth triggers. This made them extremely inaccurate and tens, if not hundreds, were usually dropped to achieve a sinking.

****

In WITP it is common to spot subs from the air and from the decks of ships during daylight because, among a host of things, submariners are retards, don't submerge in enemy waters during daylight, surface ships can use sonar at full speed, and surface ships have X RAY vision.

IRL spotting subs was difficult as they generally were the hunters, not the other way around (at least until advent of major tech breakthroughs in radar, sonar, techniques, availability, and sheer number of platforms on which to carry these new devices). Subs had a lower profile than surface ships so generally sighted the enemy first on the surface, day or night. Submerged, submarines generally spotted surface ships first as well through use of hydrophones and their even further reduced profile (now down to a periscope!). At speed, it was near impossible for a surface ship to even know a submarine is in the area unless a pericope or periscope feather was noticed (required basically calm sea states, careless use of periscope, and incredible diligence and luck on the part of surface ships.

****

In WITP subs are not only easily detected but are like lambs at the slaugher as well. No evasion by sub is permitted if discovered. Subs can't even fire back. Simply, they just sit there and take it. Baaahahahahahaaa....

IRL subs generally avoided attacking ASW TFs, and because they were subs, were generally successful in doing so. If detected, subs were again generally successful at evasion unless in shallow, restricted waters or vs late war Allied escorts. When attacked, subs often fired defensively (the down the throat shot).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sonny

Simulation??? You believe advertising? If so then... well... never mind.

It is a game. And while I would like the game to portray real life far better than it does there is need for abstraction/balance.

I agree with the ideas for (most) improvements which have been posted in other threads. However, here still needs to be some GAME left.

There are a couple things to remember:

1) there is no "fear factor" in the game (and it is very difficult to build one in). Players are going to be reckless with their assets no matter what you do - far more reckless than our RL counterparts were. This is especially true as the Allies. My 2 CAs and 4 DDs can take on a Japanese TF of 3 CAs and 6 DDs because even if I get mauled I have hurt the Japanes war effort and I have 2 more CAs and 4 more DDs coming along in another week or two. A war of attrition.

2) if the game were too much slower only the dozen or so true grognards on the forum would play it.

3) if the game were less bloody/deadly... well see #2 about grognards above. People want a war game for war not taking hours to move units around for no results. Another problem with being less bloody would relate to the fear factor. There was a post about how few US ships had been sunk by Japanese aircraft which was used as an example for supporting the position that Japanese Aircraft were too deadly. If this example were used in the game to set the stats for those aircraft then the Allies would be sailing into Tokyo bay by December '42.

Despite a lot of folks clammoring for this or that improvement in GG games you have to admit they are the most playable/enjoyable WWII GAMES.

quote:

ORIGINAL: afspret

Why do some people seem to be getting upset or complain about certain things that happen during this game which did not historically happen during the war? This is after all a GAME! What good would it be to play a game where every move and the end is predetermined?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Here is another example. Players forming ASW TFs with DDs which had 1940's DCs and sound gear would and should not bag you submarines in WITP as often as heads comes up in a coin toss. But they do. Why? Here we go...take it George.

"In WITP players use wire guided depth charges with Kablammo (TM), a special explosive designed by the folks at WITP to make individual DCs not only near 75% accurate, but nearly always fatal too.

IRL they used depth charges which were unguided and had basic TNT, Torpex, or some other traditional explosive trigged by timers or depth triggers. This made them extremely inaccurate and tens, if not hundreds, were usually dropped to achieve a sinking.

****

In WITP it is common to spot subs from the air and from the decks of ships during daylight because, among a host of things, submariners are retards, don't submerge in enemy waters during daylight, surface ships can use sonar at full speed, and surface ships have X RAY vision.

IRL spotting subs was difficult as they generally were the hunters, not the other way around (at least until advent of major tech breakthroughs in radar, sonar, techniques, availability, and sheer number of platforms on which to carry these new devices). Subs had a lower profile than surface ships so generally sighted the enemy first on the surface, day or night. Submerged, submarines generally spotted surface ships first as well through use of hydrophones and their even further reduced profile (now down to a periscope!). At speed, it was near impossible for a surface ship to even know a submarine is in the area unless a pericope or periscope feather was noticed (required basically calm sea states, careless use of periscope, and incredible diligence and luck on the part of surface ships.

****

In WITP subs are not only easily detected but are like lambs at the slaugher as well. No evasion by sub is permitted if discovered. Subs can't even fire back. Simply, they just sit there and take it. Baaahahahahahaaa....

IRL subs generally avoided attacking ASW TFs, and because they were subs, were generally successful in doing so. If detected, subs were again generally successful at evasion unless in shallow, restricted waters or vs late war Allied escorts. When attacked, subs often fired defensively (the down the throat shot).

Well, at least you're keeping me amused.

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker