ChezDaJez
Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline
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quote:
IRL spotting subs was difficult as they generally were the hunters, not the other way around (at least until advent of major tech breakthroughs in radar, sonar, techniques, availability, and sheer number of platforms on which to carry these new devices). Subs had a lower profile than surface ships so generally sighted the enemy first on the surface, day or night. Submerged, submarines generally spotted surface ships first as well through use of hydrophones and their even further reduced profile (now down to a periscope!). At speed, it was near impossible for a surface ship to even know a submarine is in the area unless a pericope or periscope feather was noticed (required basically calm sea states, careless use of periscope, and incredible diligence and luck on the part of surface ships.
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In WITP subs are not only easily detected but are like lambs at the slaugher as well. No evasion by sub is permitted if discovered. Subs can't even fire back. Simply, they just sit there and take it. Baaahahahahahaaa....
IRL subs generally avoided attacking ASW TFs, and because they were subs, were generally successful in doing so. If detected, subs were again generally successful at evasion unless in shallow, restricted waters or vs late war Allied escorts. When attacked, subs often fired defensively (the down the throat shot).
I happen to agree with you on this point, Ron. As a former acoustic sonar operator onboard the P-3C Orion with many an hour hunting submarines (and being quite good at it if I do say so myself), I can say chasing diesels are a pain.
Even today, like in WWII, the vast majority of diesel submarine detections are visual. During the war, at night surfaced subs could hear aircraft a long ways off and have a very good idea of its general movements and take appropriate action. And on those occasions when a sub must be on the surface in daylight, he will most often see you before you see him and in an emergency can go from fully surfaced to fully submerged within about 45 seconds. If there is any kind of chop on the sea, the aircraft probably wouldn't even recognize the swirl. But the general idea was for the sub to operate surfaced at night and submerged during the day when near enemy air bases.
Most WWII surface ships put too much self-noise into the water to ever detect an undamaged submarine passively at anything over 8 knots. A sub running silent is quieter than my daughter sneaking into her room after midnight (and she's damn quiet!) so the chance of detection is very slim passively without excellent locating data. A damaged sub can be tracked passively depending upon the type of damage.
Like you said, Ron, the game in no way even attempts this kind of modeling and it should have. It's not that difficult to do.
Someone else mentioned "play balance." Play balance is for a game. A simulation should let the chips fall where they would historically.
Chez
_____________________________
Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
NRD Seattle 1992-96
VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98
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RE: Upset for what? - 
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