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RE: Showdown in Karachi

 
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RE: Showdown in Karachi - 4/1/2005 3:02:07 AM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

I am afraid you will have to battle with subs that don't attack unfortunately. At least, on the rare occasion when they do, they might actually hit!


I believe that the Allied sub doctrine turns "off" automatically on January 1, 1943, along with the original Allied sub limitation. If not, this will turn into an even stranger game later on.

I wonder if we will be able to reset the sub doctrines once we upgrade to v 1.5?

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to wobbly)
Post #: 211
RE: Showdown in Karachi - 4/1/2005 4:33:16 AM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		Well, as far as September 3, 1942 went, afterwards my pilots were all singing (anachronistically), "We're so sorry, Uncle Albert, but we didn't do a bloody thing all day…"

PzB sent his fleets back to Bombay to refuel, regroup and re-think their plans. In the meanwhile my planes at Karachi decided to test out the massed strength of the KB and achieved nothing but a fair number of losses. It's too bad, because there had been plenty of "softer" targets to go after. But what was even more irritating was that the rest of my air forces across the map took a "beer day" too. Oh well, they've have less of an excuse tomorrow.

So I've set my good combat TF in Karachi harbor to "bombard" and disbanded the rest of the folks for now. We'll see if my bombardment TF gets creamed by all of PzB's troop's guns as used to happen against the AI. (It will serve me right if it does, since I've had it happen in the past.)

In other action PzB has send a couple of subs to the Gilberts. I suspect that they will lay mines. Okay, I'll send minesweepers in. It's better to have his subs spreading a handful of mines around then putting torpedoes into my BBs and carriers. And he is still trying to supply/reinforce Timor. I'll have to discourage him some more. I wonder how many troops he really has in Ambonia or Kendari?...

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 212
RE: Showdown in Karachi - 4/1/2005 4:54:05 PM   
toraq


Posts: 405
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		Considering that the KB is around Karachi, wouldn´t be a perfect moment to
1) strike elsewhere?
2) Reinforce Java?
3) Evacuate Java?

Is there any plan to make good use of this event?

(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 213
RE: Showdown in Karachi - 4/2/2005 3:02:43 AM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: toraq

Considering that the KB is around Karachi, wouldn´t be a perfect moment to
1) strike elsewhere?
2) Reinforce Java?
3) Evacuate Java?

Is there any plan to make good use of this event?


1) I have been striking elsewhere - I just don't have enough combat troops to attack his positions. So instead I've been striking where he isn't and setting up a strong series of mutually supporting bases.

2) I have lots of troops in Java. Probably too many. If I had more troops available elsewhere I would invade undefended or lightly defended areas of the DEI to set up a stronger perimeter.

3) I don't have the air power to defend any evacuation TFs. He can mass hundreds of Zeros and bombers at any point in and around Java. I'm not going to waste my carriers trying to fight that off.

What I am doing is making use of the respite that PzB has given me? Well, I'm moving troops across the ocean, moving ships so that I can move troops, supplies and fuel, and setting up areas that I can defend well. It all takes time.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to toraq)
Post #: 214
RE: Showdown in Karachi - 4/2/2005 3:04:25 AM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		I forgot about PzB's persistence and probably paid for it a bit on September 4. As with his naval actions around Timor, PzB showed at Karachi that he will go right back in again regardless of cost. So while I had expected to get another turn while PzB refuelled and rearmed his combat fleets, PzB instead went back in and finally took out most of the remaining RN ships. The Valiant lived up to its name and actually survived multiple attacks while sinking a number of cruisers and destroyers. Never-the-less, things probably wouldn't have been much different if I had all of the ships in task forces because PzB just had too many ships to throw at me. But my airfields are still okay and my air forces are still trying to attack. Fortunately for PzB his naval forces are still enjoying lots of clouds and rain.

I would expect that the next time PzB sends in his bombardment TFs he will get some decent hits on Karachi. Fortunately, since I have unlimited supply, my shore guns ought to continue to fire back. (This will be a good test of that "theory".) I've also started to disband smaller air groups - this way I'll get them back in 90 days. I guess that I'll get back the orphans some time in the future too (is it 90 days or six months?).

In the meanwhile, as a sign of his renewed confidence, PzB sent some very big air attacks at Java including Zero sweeps and attacks by 120+ IJA bombers. He has also sent a replenishment fleet back to Java, but my depleted air force there wasn't able to break through the air cover and do much.

I'm still keeping PzB's airfields in Timor and vicinity suppressed by my LBA, but it is getting harder because I just don't have enough air support troops there to keep a lot of my bombers maintained. So only about half of my LBA can fly at any one time. I am finally getting some more air support units on the "long sail" to Oz, but it will be quite a while before they get there. As a bonus, my surface ships also caught more of his ships trying to supply his bases at Timor.

I use Pearl Harbor as a staging ground for troops. This allows me flexibility in response as well as choice of ships to be used. It has only been within the past couple of game weeks that I finally got troops in numbers from the West Coast to Hawaii, but I'm getting closer to having a functional transport cycle going so things will get better as new troops arrive in the future. I'm still in the disadvantageous position, however, of having to send troops from the West Coast to Hawaii via AK instead of AP because I still don't have enough APs in the eastern Pacific. But considering that I'm just approaching the two month mark I'm pleased with my progress. Another month and I'll have my forces where I want them and in good shape and good supply. That ought to be in time for what will likely be the Battle of Java.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 215
RE: Showdown in Karachi - 4/2/2005 3:06:45 AM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		The story on September 5 was all Karachi again, as PzB sent in more combat TFs and finished off the last of the British ships. The Valiant did get off a few shots before being overwhelmed. The bombardment TFs then went in against light counterfire. Unfortunately there isn't a good CD there. A number of planes were damaged, but otherwise damage was light.

During the daytime Karachi was also attacked by naval air, with the land-based fighters causing a number of casualties. The Allied air counterattack wasn't that effectual but did sink a PG that happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. PzB did another land bombardment and promised a deliberate attack next turn.

It will be interesting to see how things turn out from the land attack. I have more and better troops than I did in Malir, but ground combat is always such a mystery in this game that I wouldn't be surprised if the Allied ground forces folded quite quickly.

Elsewhere, I continue to manoeuvre my forces into the positions that I want. It will still be several weeks before I am able to bring substantial forces to the Australian theatre, so it would be very helpful if my troops in Karachi could hold out for a while, but I'm not betting on it. PzB is in a hurry to start to return IJA divisions back to the DEI and Pacific so he intends to steamroller my troops as quickly as possible. I wonder what he will do when he realizes that I now have troops spread over a dozen or more hexes going north from Karachi and the Indus and still moving east. If he wants to surround my forces he will have a longer time to do it than in the past. And if he makes a mistake I may be able to retake a base or two in the East again.

Here is where the land movement rules are a real killer. For example, I will move a unit with level 5 fatigue off road one hex in non-malarial territory. Fatigue starts to go up rapidly and movement slows down. By the time the unit has moved 2 hexes, fatigue is over 60 and movement is down to a crawl. That's not at all realistic - that is purely idiotic. There is no intelligent justification for such rules. Sure, I can rest my troops for a few days and fatigue will start to reduce, but it reduces much more slowly than it rose. And let's face reality - armies were trained in those days to do long marches over open terrain for weeks on end, and they didn't peter out and move at a mile-per-day after the first few days. The current model ignores the reality of 4,000 years of war.

BTW - to take a further step onto a soap box - I haven't bought GG's W@W and I don't intend to at this time because GG, Mike and gang haven't earned my trust nor my money. WitP has been a frustrating experience because it has such potential and yet it is so badly flawed. If some of the bad design concepts in WitP are eventually improved, I will then reconsider W@W, but not before. So sorry Gary, Mike and gang - your decisions on WitP are costing you money - and don't think it isn't that way for more folks too.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 216
RE: Showdown in Karachi - 4/2/2005 4:54:01 AM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		September 6 saw PzB give his ships a rest and instead saw him use his IJA air to attack Karachi:

Day Air attack on Karachi , at 21,3

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 68
Ki-21 Sally x 82

Allied aircraft
Fulmar x 2
F4F-4 Wildcat x 2
Wirraway x 5
Mohawk IV x 12
Hurricane II x 34
Spitfire Vb x 31
Kittyhawk I x 12
P-40E Warhawk x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 155 destroyed, 4 damaged
Ki-21 Sally: 38 destroyed, 8 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Fulmar: 5 destroyed, 4 damaged
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 damaged
Wirraway: 12 destroyed, 1 damaged
Mohawk IV: 26 destroyed, 14 damaged
Hurricane II: 25 destroyed, 16 damaged
Spitfire Vb: 36 destroyed, 4 damaged
Kittyhawk I: 22 destroyed, 3 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 18 destroyed, 6 damaged
Blenheim IF: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged
Beaufort V-IX: 1 destroyed


Allied ground losses:
6 casualties reported

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 32

Even with FOW that was an expensive day for him. Of course where he is missing out is that he isn't using all of his bases to overwhelm me. At the end of all that, with all the supplies and engineers at Karachi I ended up with no airfield damage and plenty of planes left. If he had hit me with two or three more equivalent attacks he would have closed me down. PzB is too cautious about his air power - he may as well use it now before I get good planes in 1943 and 1944.

The one effect PzB did have was that he effectively blunted my ability to do serious damage on the retreating task forces. I'm tired of losing lots of planes for trivial results, so this turn I'm turning my bombers on to attacking Ahmadabad.

In the main event, he tried his first deliberate attack at Karachi:

Ground combat at Karachi

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 229537 troops, 1688 guns, 229 vehicles

Defending force 95254 troops, 695 guns, 481 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 8

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 8)

Japanese ground losses:
8396 casualties reported
Guns lost 141
Vehicles lost 14

Allied ground losses:
1113 casualties reported
Guns lost 86
Vehicles lost 23

I can live with that. Soon I'll also get a fairly tough US combat engineering group. Now, given my druthers I would love to be able to chose to have it go elsewhere, but I'm not too unhappy about it ending up in Karachi. Combat strength will go up and fortification repair will increase.

Elsewhere, things continue to be reasonably quiet, although I am working on changing the balance of power in Timor. I need another week or so of being "left alone". I may also see if I can quickly raid PzB's supply convoy in Java - maybe I can catch it on the way home.

BTW - PzB's subs did lay some mines in Tarawa. Cool, I've got plenty of minesweepers around. I'll sweep those mines long before his sub gets back to port for another load of mines.

BTW II - I've also got more troops moving west. And more ships are on the way to where my troops are sitting, so things continue to go well as far as the logistics part of my game goes.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 217
Top 10 Aircraft lost - 4/2/2005 5:51:47 AM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		Here's a list of the top ten aircraft lost in our game as of September 6, 1942:

A6M2 Zero -------- 1245
P-40E Warhawk --- 645
Ki-21 Sally ---------- 444
Hurricane II -------- 432
G4M1 Betty -------- 320
G3M Nell ------------ 317
Beaufort V-IX ------ 296
F4F-4 Wildcat ------ 291
SBD Dauntless ----- 276
Kittyhawk I --------- 263


Three quarters of those Zero losses have been air-to-air.

Dave Baranyi

_____________________________


(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 218
Karachi under attack... - 4/2/2005 5:10:18 PM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		The siege of Karachi continues to be the big news. AS of September 7 PzB's air attacks are starting to break the back of my air defense:

Day Air attack on Karachi , at 21,3

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 35

Allied aircraft
Mohawk IV x 7
Hurricane II x 24
Spitfire Vb x 29
Kittyhawk I x 6
P-40E Warhawk x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 52 destroyed

Day Air attack on Karachi , at 21,3

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 21
Ki-21 Sally x 66
Ki-46-II Dinah x 1

Allied aircraft
Mohawk IV x 5
Hurricane II x 12
Spitfire Vb x 17
Kittyhawk I x 5
P-40E Warhawk x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 20 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-21 Sally: 23 destroyed, 29 damaged
Ki-46-II Dinah: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Mohawk IV: 8 destroyed, 1 damaged
Hurricane II: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
Spitfire Vb: 7 destroyed, 6 damaged
Kittyhawk I: 8 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied ground losses:
28 casualties reported

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 21

My air force there is no longer able to interdict Ahmadabad, let alone do anything against the KB offshore.

BTW - to give an idea of the amount or air power that PzB has, look at what he is simultaneously doing in Java:

Day Air attack on Tjilitjap , at 19,62

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 17
Ki-46-II Dinah x 1

Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Tomahawk: 2 destroyed

Day Air attack on Tjilitjap , at 19,62

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 25
A6M3 Zero x 12
Ki-21 Sally x 162
Ki-49 Helen x 17

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 2 destroyed, 9 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
A-20B Boston: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
Beaufort V-IX: 5 destroyed, 2 damaged
P-40B Tomahawk: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied ground losses:
49 casualties reported

Airbase hits 10
Airbase supply hits 11
Runway hits 82

So those folks who like to whine about the strength of the Allied LBA ought to take note - as you can see, a good Japanese player can attack with overwhelming force in multiple locations. (And I'm not bothering to show what what he is also doing in China.)

PzB's ground attack at Karachi did better this time:

Ground combat at Karachi

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 227810 troops, 1522 guns, 210 vehicles

Defending force 97105 troops, 612 guns, 487 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 7

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 7)

Japanese ground losses:
4706 casualties reported
Guns lost 88
Vehicles lost 3

Allied ground losses:
3054 casualties reported
Guns lost 66
Vehicles lost 17

Afterwards I checked and found out that I had forgotten to put the engineers back on "build fortifications". I had assumed that they would do so automatically as the fortifications were lowered. Oh well, they are on the job now.

As an added bonus for PzB, the AI sent another AK into Karachi Harbor this turn. There are times where the programming in this game just leaves me "speechless"...

So PzB now figures that he can take Karachi in another week or so, and I see nothing in what is happening to suggest otherwise. Since the survivors of Malir are not recovering their fatigue in any reasonable period of time while sitting on the road to the north of Karachi, I'll probably move them off into the countryside. This way PzB will also have to waste time with the movement rules in order to chase them.

BTW - speaking of stragglers - one of my Chinese straggler groups in far northeastern China finally found a base that was unoccupied:

Ground combat at Jehol

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 9377 troops, 67 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 33 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Jehol base !!!

This base did go over to the Chinese, not the Russians. It will be interesting to see if any of my other stragglers can reach there before PzB sends some troops over to chase me out.

Dave Baranyi

< Message edited by ADavidB -- 4/2/2005 5:13:36 PM >

(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 219
RE: Karachi under attack... - 4/2/2005 5:21:41 PM   
String


Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline 		When you feel that your air ops in Karachi are going to be shut down then disband all possible groups. Or withdraw, that way you can keep some of the pilots i think

(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 220
RE: Karachi under attack... - 4/2/2005 5:35:36 PM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: String

When you feel that your air ops in Karachi are going to be shut down then disband all possible groups. Or withdraw, that way you can keep some of the pilots i think


I've been gradually doing that. I'm getting down to the "orphans" now.

Thanks -

Dave

(in reply to String)
Post #: 221
RE: Karachi under attack... - 4/2/2005 8:06:06 PM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		The local rain gods gave Karachi a bit of a break on September 7, as the incoming massed Japanese task forces got rained out and the defenders at Karachi only had to contend with LBA:

Day Air attack on Karachi , at 21,3

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 21
Ki-21 Sally x 79

Allied aircraft
Hurricane II x 17
Spitfire Vb x 21
Kittyhawk I x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 37 destroyed
Ki-21 Sally: 33 destroyed, 20 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane II: 9 destroyed, 8 damaged
Spitfire Vb: 5 destroyed, 7 damaged
Kittyhawk I: 9 destroyed, 5 damaged
F4F-4 Wildcat: 8 destroyed, 14 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged
Wirraway: 1 destroyed
Blenheim IF: 1 destroyed
Mohawk IV: 2 destroyed

Allied ground losses:
19 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 14
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 44

PzB wasn't very happy with the "pain" of that attack so I presume that he will send his bombardment TFs back in. In the meanwhile the Japanese attack succeeded in reducing the fortifications by one again (this time I do have the engineers turned on):

Ground combat at Karachi

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 222128 troops, 1385 guns, 209 vehicles

Defending force 93812 troops, 522 guns, 472 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 6

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 6)

Japanese ground losses:
4605 casualties reported
Guns lost 37
Vehicles lost 2

Allied ground losses:
3057 casualties reported
Guns lost 73
Vehicles lost 14

A couple more engineering units arrived into the mess at Karachi. (What a "wonderful" AI.) What is particularly odd is that the US engineering group that came in has San Francisco as its "target". One has to wonder why not Karachi since it was sent there.

BTW - PzB took care of that misbegotten AK that showed up last turn in Karachi with a big overkill care of a cruiser battle group.

In other wild and wonderful things, Jehol magically transformed itself it a Soviet base between turns. I've offered to turn it back to a Chinese base since it will only cost 30 points, but I don't necessarily think that it will stay that way. I've also suggested to PzB that he can probably attack it without activating the Soviets because Jehol isn't over the Soviet border. (Immeidately afterwards I did an inventory of all of my Soviet assets - not bad, not bad at all...)

Otherwise, my bombardment fleet ran into a sub at Lautem, sinking the sub but getting a torpedo into one of the BBs. Oh well, that BB has done its job well - it's time for it to go "south" and get some repairs. At the same time my carrier TF is racing north towards Java where PzB has been "casually" sending supply TFs - I'm hoping to have some "fun" up there if the Javanese rain gods concur. (I need to find some virgins to sacrifice - that's a hard thing to round up in a big city...)


(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 222
Mad with power... - 4/2/2005 9:29:21 PM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		PzB made the following request in regards to our magnificent capture of Jehol:

"...but pls don't move more Chinese into Kwantung"

Here was our generous reply:

"That sounds better. You are obviously quaking in terror of my hordes striking into the heartland of Manchuria and then across the straits of Korea into Japan. I will make a magnanimous offer to you - stop all hostilities and remove all of your troops from India and I will remove mine from Kwantung. Bath in the light of my generosity."

Dave

(Going mad with power...)

< Message edited by ADavidB -- 4/2/2005 9:32:11 PM >

(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 223
RE: Mad with power... - 4/2/2005 9:37:39 PM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		Here is more evidence of the might of our forces on Septemeber 9:

Coastal Guns at hex 22,2 firing, at TF 33
TF 33 troops unloading over beach at 22,2


254 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
PG Uji, Shell hits 2
PC Ch 32
DD Wakatake
PG Daido Maru

Japanese ground losses:
1122 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
12 casualties reported

PzB is trying to cut off the defenders of Karachi. The forces that made the strategic redeploment out of Malir were there to great the invaders and will counterattack this coming turn.

Meanwhile, in Karachi proper our troops once again fought well for King and Country:

Ground combat at Karachi

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 217405 troops, 1315 guns, 206 vehicles

Defending force 90532 troops, 446 guns, 447 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 5

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 5)

Japanese ground losses:
3783 casualties reported
Guns lost 90

Allied ground losses:
2628 casualties reported
Guns lost 67
Vehicles lost 26

And in the DEI our American brethren fought equally well:

Day Air attack on TF at 21,67

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 20

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 11
SBD Dauntless x 34
TBF Avenger x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 6 destroyed
SBD Dauntless: 12 destroyed, 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
AK Nitiren Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Malacca Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AK Yamabiko Maru, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK Oregon Maru, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
AK Nitiran Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

As it is most obvious our victorious forces are causing the enemy to cower everywhere. We shall be awaiting terms in our summer residence in the Credit River highlands...

Lord Dave of Mississauga


(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 224
I'm not the only one who is nuts... - 4/3/2005 12:40:53 AM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		Look at this recent exchange of messages between Us and the Enemy. First, the Enemy's taunts and lies:

"Then I can't offer you to evacuate Java ; ) Well, I just considered it all a bug - if you sit tight in China I won't commit any more offensives as I don't find it realistic.

Bombardments caused 7500 casualties and blew up 174 ac today. That was mean!
Why had you moved so many troops out of the city, want to play garrison and partisans :p)"

My reply was:

"It's too late - you have committed too many atrocities. There will be no parley, there will be no quarter. Lord Dave of Mississauga has declared it to be so!

You can't believe that I will just let you roll over my troops do you? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

Sorry Charlie, you will have to fight for everything. The game is buggered up for both of us, you've been able to use it, so will I...

Lord Dave has Spoken...

(hahahahahahahahahahaha)"

It's actually funny that PzB would want me not to use partisans - after all, he has India very much by the grace of the buggy land combat and movement programs. Of course, if I were stupid enough to leave all of my troops to be trapped by him he might very well be able to reach the 4:1 ratio. Our current standings are as follows:

Japanese - 34331
Allied - 9808

PzB will get something like 1600 points for Karachi. Already 12,000+ of his points have come from Allied troops. Why should I let him get more? And how will "giving up" prevent him from, "committing more offensives"? It's to my advantage for PzB to try more offensives - I want to catch him making mistakes. There won't be messes like Java and India in his future.

Let this be a lesson to all players - play the game as it plays - if you try to play it historically you will fail miserably. As it is, it is almost impossible for an Allied player to get enough points to break even, let alone win.

Now for some details on September 10. First off, PzB sent his bombardment TFs back into Karachi and this time they didn't revert to surface combat, so they hammered things quite well. PzB is getting ticked off that I have the Malir survivors in his "chosen" spot so it's not a cakewalk for him to pen me in. He's just lucky that they are weak or it would be a different story. As it is he has landed an entire division behind my lines. So much for the "house rule theory" that people have been espousing about landing only on "dots". I guess that he is ticked off that he is taking large losses from my troops upon landing. However, my attempt to rout him out before he got too many troops on shore failed:

Ground combat at 22,2

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 14556 troops, 44 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 14959 troops, 109 guns, 2 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 0 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
108 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Allied ground losses:
480 casualties reported
Guns lost 8

It's unfortunate that I couldn't set a full attack on the first day. Oh well, at least he isn't going anywhere fast. He is probably also ticked off that Karachi is costing him a lot:

Ground combat at Karachi

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 233395 troops, 1372 guns, 207 vehicles

Defending force 76177 troops, 300 guns, 397 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 4

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 4)

Japanese ground losses:
5728 casualties reported
Guns lost 59
Vehicles lost 4

Allied ground losses:
3175 casualties reported
Guns lost 77
Vehicles lost 35

In the meanwhile PzB is moving "modern" aircraft into the South Pacific:

Day Air attack on Rabaul , at 61,88

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 6
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 13

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 56

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 14 destroyed, 2 damaged
H8K Emily: 2 destroyed, 7 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 4 destroyed, 27 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
88 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 23

Good, that's more targets for my bombers.

PzB has also moved LBA into range of Lautem but out of range of my LBA, so he was able to torpedo two transport ships. But I now have a base force in Lautem, which means that I now have a Hurricane group there to say "Hello" to the incoming unescorted bombers. Also, for some unknown reason, a two reinforcement air groups appeared out of the thin air on Lautem. I guess that they are "abstracted" as being part of the supplies. They are part of the guys stuck in Java. But what this now means is that I have air coverage and anti-ship coverage in the midst of the southeaster DEI. This will make life even more difficult for PzB. (I wonder if he will ask me not to put more planes in Lautem...hahahahahahahahaha)

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 225
Soviet base takeover bug... - 4/3/2005 4:49:18 AM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		I tried to change Jehol back to Chinese control on September 11. Unfortunately, despite the fact that I have lots of political points, the game won't let me. So I have to agree with PzB that there is a bug there and therefore I won't exploit it. It's too bad, because PzB hasn't defended Manchuria well and he should have to pay for it, but essentially the idiot game has robbed me of the ability to take advantage of PzB's mistake.

I have stood my ground as far as guerilla warfare in the rest of China, Burma and India goes. In the same way that PzB justifies his use of the ground movement and combat mechanics as an "as designed" capability and part of the game mechanics, so do I for guerilla war, and PzB will have to deal with it. I sure hope that no other bases that I re-take in areas outside of Manchuria switch to Soviet control.

As far as the rest of the war is going, PzB bombarded Karachi some more, destroying more planes. But the planes that are left still gave a brave account of themselves:

Day Air attack on Karachi , at 21,3

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 26
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 18
Ki-21 Sally x 80
Ki-48 Lily x 24

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 1
Wirraway x 2
Mohawk IV x 3
Hurricane II x 4
Spitfire Vb x 14
Kittyhawk I x 5
P-40E Warhawk x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 10 destroyed
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 34 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-21 Sally: 4 destroyed, 6 damaged
Ki-48 Lily: 7 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
Wirraway: 7 destroyed, 2 damaged
Mohawk IV: 3 destroyed
Hurricane II: 9 destroyed, 6 damaged
Spitfire Vb: 14 destroyed, 1 damaged
Kittyhawk I: 4 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed
Fulmar: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged
Catalina I: 1 destroyed
Beaufort I: 2 destroyed, 5 damaged
Beaufort V-IX: 3 destroyed, 2 damaged

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 55

I disbanded more units. We're getting down to the final strokes here. The ground combat at Karachi is also coming closer to a final decision:

Ground combat at Karachi

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 227797 troops, 1276 guns, 203 vehicles

Defending force 71692 troops, 236 guns, 360 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 3

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 3)

Japanese ground losses:
3285 casualties reported
Guns lost 28

Allied ground losses:
3084 casualties reported
Guns lost 37
Vehicles lost 20

In the meanwhile, PzB was exercising more of his massive air force in Java again, starting with a fighter sweep:

Day Air attack on Tjilitjap , at 19,62

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 16

Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Tomahawk: 1 damaged

and followed by the main event:

Day Air attack on Tjilitjap , at 19,62

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 25
Ki-21 Sally x 144
Ki-49 Helen x 17

Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 19 destroyed, 22 damaged
Ki-49 Helen: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Tomahawk: 3 destroyed
PBY Catalina: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
A-20B Boston: 5 destroyed, 2 damaged
Beaufort V-IX: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied ground losses:
66 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 6
Runway hits 68

I'm impressed that he can get so many Sallys in the air at the same time. I can't come anywhere close with my LBA.

But hey, my "brave few" are making their presence felt in nice ways, for example:

Day Air attack on TF, near Kendari at 33,71

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 6
SBD Dauntless x 28
TBF Avenger x 14

Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless: 1 damaged
TBF Avenger: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
DD Shiokaze, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Usugumo, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Asanagi

One of those DDs sank subsequently, and I think that I disrupted that probable preparation for a fast transport.

BTW - it looks like PzB is pretty confident about things in India so my patrol planes in Colombo spotted a battle group headed southeast across the Indian ocean. I wonder if he will send them on the ocean side or through the Straits of Malacca. I'll have to keep an eye out for an "opportunity" there.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 226
RE: Soviet base takeover bug... - 4/4/2005 1:41:34 AM   
String


Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline 		Just heard the news Dave, I feel for you

(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 227
Fortunes of War... - 4/4/2005 2:54:03 AM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		Some folks around the Forum have offered the opinion that Bettys and Nells aren't quite as effective in WitP as they were in UV. Well, You can't prove that by me.

The Yorktown was on her way back to port on September 12 after a successful trip in which she hit a transport TF and a DD TF, when out of the far north appeared a bunch of Bettys. Six torpedoes hit and by the end of the day the Yorktown was gone. I had a choice the previous turn of having the Yorktown sail south or west, and I chose west because I had spotted a couple of Japanese subs to the south, and I usually lose more carriers to subs than anything else. Such are the fortunes of war.

In the meanwhile, PzB has a TF of some sort heading for Nauru Island. It appears to be a fast transport TF. I've got a small PT TF there, along with an AVD on "surface combat", and a fair amount of LCUs there, including an RCT, and a CD unit. Just to make certain, I've also sent out my fast BB TF out of Tawara, along with my local carrier TF out of Baker. And I've got B-25s in Tawara on "naval attack". It will be interesting to see if I get some revenge for the loss of the Yorktown.

Off in India, PzB continues to pound Karachi with naval forces. The fortifications continue to diminish, and we both continue to take casualties:

Ground combat at Karachi

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 230391 troops, 1248 guns, 206 vehicles

Defending force 68351 troops, 191 guns, 340 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 2)

Japanese ground losses:
3269 casualties reported
Guns lost 45
Vehicles lost 4

Allied ground losses:
2659 casualties reported
Guns lost 55
Vehicles lost 20

I'm supposed to get two new fast BBs and a bunch of DDs next turn, so I'll have more to work with once I get them out to the front.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to String)
Post #: 228
RE: Fortunes of War... - 4/4/2005 7:18:58 AM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		Well, after losing the Yorktown I figured that I had to get some "value" out of the remaining ships in the TF, so I switched them to "bombardment" on September 13 and let them stop at Koepang on the way back to base. It was a worthwhile stop:

Naval bombardment of Koepang, at 28,77

Allied Ships
DD Stuart
DD Downes
DD Perkins
DD Mahan
DD McCall
DD Helm
DD Russell
CL Nashville
CL Phoenix

Japanese ground losses:
201 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 20
Port hits 2
Port supply hits 4

It is interesting that PzB had nothing to shoot back with, despite having a lot of troops there. I'm hoping that my continuous air bombardment is having some effect. Anyway, this makes me feel a bit better in a "tit-for-tat" way since PzB bombards Karachi on every turn.

This turn PzB will get another "freebie" courtesy of the game - a Brit cruiser appeared in Karachi harbor "overnight". I've set it into a surface combat TF. I wonder if it will get any shots off before it is overwhelmed. BTW - there is no point trying to have it "run" - PzB still has carrier TFs offshore.

The battle for Karachi will come to an end soon too:

Ground combat at Karachi

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 226704 troops, 1179 guns, 204 vehicles

Defending force 68844 troops, 155 guns, 316 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese ground losses:
4078 casualties reported
Guns lost 45
Vehicles lost 3

Allied ground losses:
3744 casualties reported
Guns lost 32
Vehicles lost 12

In other news, I caught one of PzB's subs off of Lautem:

Sub attack at 33,79

Japanese Ships
SS I-165, hits 6, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
APD Little, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
APD Stringham
APD Gregory
APD McKean
APD Manley

It's too bad that I had to trade an APD for it, but PzB doesn't have many subs left so it is worth the trouble to go after them. I'm sending a DMS TF this turn after the remaining sub.

BTW - that TF off of Nauru Island didn't invade or attack this past turn. Now it is a few hexes to the west and staying quiet. My patrols say that it is small ( 3 or 4 ships ) and one of those ships is a "CV", along with an AP or something. (Not that I trust Magoo's patrol pilots.) I'm guessing that it is a scouting force with a CS or AV, but I'll find out soon because I have a carrier TF coming over to check it out, along with some surface forces. (And I'll have a back-up force coming up soon too.)

BTW II - I am bombing PzB in numerous places, and he does the same to me, mainly in Burma and China. I'm just not bothering to list all the repetitive details.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 229
Wrong place at the wrong time... - 4/5/2005 2:00:51 AM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		September 14 started out with the poor Brit CA Hawkins in the "wrong place at the wrong time". Instead of running into any of the smaller, weaker bombardment TFs in Karachi Harbor Hawkins ran into a BB TF and only got two shots off before being blown to bits. I find it ironic that the creators of WitP seem to have never assumed that an invasion of India was possible. After all, everyone was invading India in Pacwar over 10 years ago. As it stands, an invasion of India appears to be almost "mandatory" for any Japanese players of WitP - where else can you get so many points and eliminate an entire Front so easily?

The land was in Karachi continues with PzB slowly grinding the place into the ground:

Ground combat at Karachi

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 245195 troops, 1266 guns, 211 vehicles

Defending force 64818 troops, 117 guns, 300 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese ground losses:
1786 casualties reported
Guns lost 23
Vehicles lost 2

Allied ground losses:
4848 casualties reported
Guns lost 36
Vehicles lost 18

This is the first time that my casualties exceeded those of PzB. Of course, once PzB captures Karachi he gets those 999,999 supply and 999,999 fuel points. He'll have ships going to Karachi for months afterwards to empty it out. You've got to "love" the game design…

Elsewhere, PzB's odd "scouting" force disappeared west of Nauru. Did they flee back to the northwest or did they go south in search of transport TFs or empty bases? I've now sent a second carrier TF to scour the waters in the region. I'll have to move an AV and some patrol planes onto one of those little islands in the south-central Pacific to keep an eye on things.

PzB has also put another couple of subs in the waters between Lautem and Oz. Okay, I'll send out more ASW TFs. In the meanwhile I may surprise him a bit again in Timor.

Otherwise it's pretty much business as usual, except that PzB is mustering more forces in the Marshalls. He may just send a combat TF south into the Gilberts, but he has multiple hardened targets now, so it won't be a simple affair for him.

BTW - PzB is quite "proud" of his new Tojos and Tonys. I've got to admit, they do make nice targets:

Day Air attack on Rabaul, at 61, 88

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 42

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed, 1 damaged
H8K Emily: 3 destroyed, 4 damaged
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 3 destroyed, 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 8 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
12 casualties reported

Airbase hits 11
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 30

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 230
Quiet times... - 4/5/2005 2:02:34 AM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		PzB gave the folks at Karachi a bit of a rest on Sept 15 and only did one naval and one land bombardment:

Ground combat at Karachi

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 187089 troops, 1251 guns, 7 vehicles

Defending force 60100 troops, 94 guns, 288 vehicles

Allied ground losses:
308 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 1

As you can see, I've lost about a third of my forces there.

Things were relatively quiet elsewhere too, as rain interfered with many of my planned air strikes. However, the weather didn't interfere with my taking of another base on Timor:

Ground combat at Dili

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 780 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 12 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Dili base!!!

I paradropped those guys in there. This will cut off the Japanese at Lautem from supply at Koepang, although my LBA is doing a good job of keeping supply going downwards at Koepang anyway.

PzB's subs disappeared from the waters around Lautem. I suspect that they haven't gone far, but that's okay, I don't have anything moving around that area that doesn't have depth charges on board.

PzB's "mystery" TF in the south-central Pacific also seems to have totally disappeared. I still have a few folks out looking around, just in case.

Oh well, as I've said in the past, "quiet is good".

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 231
RE: Quiet times... - 4/5/2005 2:03:37 AM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		September 16 saw another relatively quiet day, particularly since PzB has found out that his LCUs can cause significant damage by simply doing land bombardments:

Ground combat at Karachi

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 188803 troops, 1268 guns, 8 vehicles

Defending force 63621 troops, 186 guns, 319 vehicles

Allied ground losses:
650 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
Vehicles lost 6

This way he gets to rest his combat ships too. But my aircraft have been repaired a bit - I wonder if they will attack anything? PzB will probably send in a bombardment TF and end that faint hope before it starts.

Otherwise it was another quiet day with a few exceptions. PzB sent his Sallys back to Java. He also has a transport TF steaming near Timor. I'm not sure where it is headed, but I'll send out some "friends" to check it out. I'm also going to try a small "surprise" in Java. We'll see what happens.

BTW - I was checking on reinforcements in general, and it turns out that I only get a couple of relatively small combat LCUs during the next six game months! I had better be judicious in how I use the ones that I have. Obviously I won't be invading any well-defended Japanese bases in the near future.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 232
RE: Quiet times... - 4/5/2005 2:51:45 AM   
toraq


Posts: 405
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		1-Any chances of saving planes/LCU from Karachi?

2-Very sad news
quote:

Obviously I won't be invading any well-defended Japanese bases in the near future.

So what happens with the Marinas invasion/Kwajalein invasion???

3- Are you still attacking japs bases around Java with your Java´s aircraft?

(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 233
RE: Quiet times... - 4/5/2005 3:21:50 AM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		"Any chances of saving planes/LCU from Karachi? "

I pulled out all of the aircraft that could fly out. The closest base was Colombo, so that limited it to the longer range bombers and patrol planes. I've spread a lot of LCUs to the north and east of Karachi, but the movement rules are preventing me from getting very far. Once they travel two hexes off of a road they pass "60" fatigue and slow down to a crawl (between 5 and 1 miles per day, depending upon the terrain). PzB now has me blocked in on three sides so it's unlikely my troops in Karachi proper will get out. (I can't move them currently because they are "engaged".) What neither of us know right now is if they will all surrrender on "2:1" since there are no other Indian bases. I guess we will find out soon.

"So what happens with the Marinas invasion/Kwajalein invasion??? "

PzB has been reinforcing the Marshalls faster than I can build up the Gilberts. He has three level four bases where he can base Bettys/Nells and I can only reach one of them with my current air bases. I also only have one decent division available in the theater and I don't want to risk it without enough air cover. Once I start to get P-38s I'll be able to LR CAP an invasion fleet.

"Are you still attacking japs bases around Java with your Java´s aircraft?"

I ran out of planes there long ago. I don't have enough air support units to wage a war of attrition with PzB. He can also attack from a half dozen bases. I was able to shut down PzB's air power in Karachi because I had:

1 - Unlimited supplies and reinforcements/replacements thanks to Karachi
2 - More than 250 air support points
3 - 200 bombers and 200 fighters/fighter bombers

I'm just now bringing fresh air support troops to Australia - it's taken this long to get the ships to the US West Coast and then bring the troops west. And unless I can stockpile a LOT of supplies, having as many planes in any theater will eat up supplies really quickly.

What happens in Java depends a lot on how soon PzB starts to bring combat ships out of India and into the DEI. The longer he waits, the better I can become prepared. But realistically, it will be another game-month before I can seriously consider doing anything about Java, and I probably don't have more than another couple of weeks. I've been fortunate that my sortie into Timor has distracted PzB as much as it has.

Thanks for the comments -

Dave

(in reply to toraq)
Post #: 234
RE: Quiet times... - 4/5/2005 5:31:43 AM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		I like to do little things that keep PzB a little off-balance, and I just achieved another of those things on September 17:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Malang at 22,66

Japanese Ships
AK Nitiran Maru, heavy damage
AK Nitiren Maru, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
AK Oregon Maru, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
DD Van Galen

The Van Galen has been sitting in Tjililap Harbor for two months now, nursing damage and occasionally ducking bombs. I've gradually snuck out most of the ships in the harbor over time, and I was debating doing the same for Van Galen, but then I noticed that it actually didn't have any weapons damage, so I thought, "WTF, let's send it down to Malang and see if we can score some hits on those AKs that are sitting there." Now I'll send it away to safety. BTW - a sub that I had nearby got a hit into one of the survivors of this attack after they fled the harbor.

In more predictable news, PzB sent his bombardment TFs back into Karachi and blew the place up again. He also had his LCUs do another bombardment. It appears that he wants to finish the place off once and for all and therefore is trying to weaken my forces to allow a final blow.

I continue to keep PzB "honest" in differing places. For example, I sent my Chinese-based bombers after a different target on the 17th with nice results:

Day Air attack on Hanoi , at 36,37

Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 34

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
46 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 4
Runway hits 18

This turn there is an "x" at Hanoi, which likely means that he has put some fighters in. So I set the bombers to target a different Chinese base without an "x" for this turn.

PzB is busy trying to bring supplies to his forward bases that have been under my attack. He has what is probably a barge convoy heading to Koepang - I'll meet it there with some folks who are looking forward to having target practice on the barges. PzB also tried to get a transport convoy to Lae or vicinity - not a good move from his p.o.v.:

Day Air attack on TF at 56,87

Allied aircraft
B-26B Marauder x 32

Allied aircraft losses
B-26B Marauder: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
DD Yukaze, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
APD APD-2
DD Numakaze
APD APD-36
APD APD-37, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

I've had those B-26s on "naval attack/airfield attack" for weeks now, and they have received lots of practice bombing Buna and Lae. It now looks like PzB's ships are trying to leave the area, but in case they aren't, I'll move a few more planes into PM to help them leave... BTW - I'll have another big air support unit in PM within a couple of days which will enable me to maintain even better attacks from there.

PzB also has a lot of TFs cruising around the Marshalls. My B-17s in Tarawa haven't wanted to fly lately, which is a bit of a pain, but they will eventually. In the meanwhile the the rest of the bases in the Gilberts continue to build up nicely. (Tarawa is already maxed-out.) And I should start to see P-38s in a couple of weeks, which will change the balance in the Gilberts/Marshalls even more.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 235
Mid-Sept review... - 4/6/2005 1:12:15 AM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		Here is my analysis of the situation in the game and a review of potential strategies as of mid-September 1942. I've now been at this game for about 9 weeks and things have gone pretty much as I originally predicted, particularly as far as the amount of time that has been required to get ships to the West Coast of the US and then to bring forces and supplies back across the Pacific to the various fronts. The game has been reasonably well-behaved and bug free, apart from the recent Soviet "take over" of a Manchurian base that had just been captured by Chinese troops.

The only real major surprise to me has been the inability of my forces in India to slow down the Japanese assaults in any significant manner. The disparity in capabilities in the forces is astonishing and essentially there are no Allied land forces in India that can take on the Japanese LCUs and win. My assessment is as follows: unless the Game Designers make some sort of changes to the "as designed" capability of the Japanese land forces to overwhelm any Allied land forces in India, an early invasion of India is the best means for a Japanese player to gain enough victory points to either win the war outright, or enough to prevent an Allied player from doing better than a "draw" in the long run. I can't imagine the conditions under which an Allied player can come back and re-capture India once it is lost. I also think that if PzB had gone after Karachi much sooner instead of waiting to mop-up the rest of India he could have taken it much more quickly and then starved out the remaining Allied forces faster.

Okay, on to the situation in the various theaters. First off, let's look at the West Coast of North America. I've left all of the "West Coast" and "Canadian" command forces in the West Coast - I haven't used political points to free any of them up. I continue to build up all of the bases and fortifications and I have spread out my troops to give general coverage. I have also left the non-West Coast base forces in Los Angeles and San Diego so that I can maintain air units in both bases.

My idea for this theater is that if PzB were to take substantial forces out of India and mount a campaign against mainland North American bases I would want to have the local capability to slow down his efforts while I attempted to interfere with his main landings. However, if PzB were to be able to get those experienced divisions out of India and onto the road network in NA, there is nothing much I could do to stop them once they got going. This is area where an aggressive Japanese player could consider winning the game "in style".

Next, let's look at Alaska and the Aleutians. I realize that many people ignore that theatre, but again, I'm looking towards the possibility of PzB moving large numbers of Divisions against North America, and the Northern Theater is the closest path between the two opponents. Not only that, but the Aleutian Islands have numerous bases that can be built up to support extended operations. So I've moved all of the forces currently assigned to "North Pacific" command to Alaska and the Aleutians. Anchorage, for example, already has level 9 naval and air bases and its fortifications are at 7 and increasing. Anchorage is significant because it is the only base other than Pearl Harbor that has a level 9 port in the Eastern Pacific and it is relatively close to the West Coast supply bases.

Therefore I am building up some of the western bases in the Aleutians and moving the North Pacific RCT units to support the bases. This way, if PzB does decide to attack, I can interfere with his invasions. Also, if he decides to attack elsewhere, or just settles in to defend his current perimeter, I will have a stepping stone of bases pointed right at the Kuriles and Sakhalin Island for invasions of my own in 1943/1944. Remember, heavy bombers in the Sakhalin bases can hit Hokkaido. Also, if PzB either deliberately or accidentally activates the Soviets, the Aleutian bases will allow me to get forces to the Soviet theatre much more readily.

Now as far as the Eastern Pacific goes, I am using Hawaii as a staging ground to bring forces and supplies from the West Coast before sending them on to other fronts further west. I've left two divisions in Pearl Harbor to protect against a possible invasion. The other islands are being built up slowly, but I haven't gone out of my way to bring troops in to protect them. It is a calculated risk and I'll take my chances for the meantime. Midway and Johnson Islands are moderately defended and Palmyra is lightly defended. All three bases have been built up to the maximum. I may put an engineering unit into French Frigate Shoals to build it up a bit so that it can act as a staging base for short range fighters and patrol planes.

My main focus in the region has been the Gilbert Islands. I have all of the Islands occupied with combat troops, including Baker and Nauru. I have large numbers of engineering units on all of the islands and I am building all of the islands to maximum values as quickly as possible. I am staging large numbers of fighters, tactical bombers and long range bombers in the various air bases and have a fast battleship-lead surface combat TF and a carrier TF in the region, as well as a number of PT boat squadrons. I have been pumping large quantities of supplies and fuel into the bases in order to allow me to sustain extended campaigns from the region.

PzB has tried the occasional foray into the Gilberts, but I have repulsed his air raids with significant losses to him, and his naval forays have not come in contact with my forces. I have done bombing campaigns against the southernmost islands in the Marshalls. PzB is currently sending many TFs to Maloelap, and it appears that he intends it to be a major staging base. Because PzB has multiple bases from which he can stage bombers and fighters in the Marshalls I have not attempted any raids or invasions directly into the Marshalls as of yet. But once I start to get P-38s I will have the capability to provide LR CAP to raid and invasion TFs which will change the balance.

Speaking of P-38s, I currently have P-39s in the West Coast, Eastern Pacific, Eastern Australia and Northern Australia. I intend to convert the P-39s in the Eastern Pacific first, followed by the ones in Eastern Australia, followed by the ones in Northern Australia. This way I will be able to build up useful air groups before sustaining losses. When I use the P-38s I want to be able to use them en masse to overwhelm the opposition.

The South-central Pacific is still lightly defended and lightly developed. I have been depending upon my forces in the Gilberts and in the South Pacific to react to any forays into this region. Controlling Nauru aids me greatly in determining if any threats are trying to sneak into South-central region. I don't see any reason at this time to pursue additional development in the region, other than perhaps sending in an AV and a patrol group to give me a bit better air coverage than I currently have in the region.

The Solomons and South Pacific theatre has been quiet and stable. I've been building up my key base at Lunga and have recently started to get additional forces in the region. I will put forces in Tulagi and Russell Islands and build them up to give me the mutual support that I like to have around key bases. It appears that most of the rest of the Solomons that are still in Japanese hands are lightly defended or empty. There is a tremendous potential here and I want to bring more combat forces to the region to allow me to take advantage of this situation before PzB brings troops back into the region. Therefore I am going to actively interfere with any attempts that PzB might make to reinforce his current bases. Fortunately, PzB has not built up the air base at Shortlands and I have been able to bomb the airfields at Rabaul with relative ease from Port Moresby. Once I get an additional air support unit at PM in the next couple of days I will be able to sustain more a consistent air campaign against Rabaul, which will allow me to start to advance up the Solomons.

Eastern Australia and PNG are also stable. PzB has attempted no attacks against PM and has essentially given me total freedom of action in the region. I have thus focussed upon continuously bombing Buna and Lae to rob PzB of their usefulness, as well as occasionally bombing Rabaul just to let PzB know that I can. It appears that PzB has been building up the Admiralty Islands as an alternative/back up to Rabaul. I'll start to bomb there too, just to discourage him from that idea.

The manpower, base development, air power, supply and fuel situation in Eastern Australia are all stable, so I am now moving troops into position to support operations in PNG as well as Northern Australia. It appears that Gili-Gili is no longer occupied by enemy troops; therefore I will send an invasion force in to take it and to secure that part of my front. I will also send a base force and engineers to Rossel Island so that I can "close the gap" in coverage between my bases in the Solomons and in PNG.

Northern Australia is temporarily stable, pending PzB's decision on what to do with the forces that he is withdrawing from India. My air forces continue to suppress PzB's air bases in Koepang, Ambonia and Kendari. My capture of Lautem and Dili put pressure on PzB to act, which in turn gives me opportunities to "act" upon PzB, particularly since PzB has so far acted in a piecemeal fashion in the region, which has allowed my forces greater freedom of action and effectiveness.

I still don't have the quality of forces that I would like to have in the region, but I am starting to get some new forces in and have more on the way. In particular, I need to get more air support forces into the region so that I can sustain better air campaigns as well as spread out my air forces on to more bases. I need to be able to threaten any of PzB's naval forces in the region from multiple locations so that he can't simply come in with one overwhelming surface or air combat force and shut down my most important base.

The situation on Java is still static. PzB hasn't attempted to assault any of my bases and I haven't threatened his bases with my land units either. I've been happy to build up the air bases and fortifications of the bases that I do hold. Unfortunately, I don't have sufficient air support forces to allow an air campaign that can stop PzB's air campaigns. In addition, all but one of my bases in Java are subject to naval bombardments, therefore PzB can close them down when he pleases because he has combined air and naval superiority in the area, analogous to what I have between Northern Australia and Timor.

I also don’t have "stepping-stone" bases to allow me to bring short-range air units in-and-out of Java to allow them to rebuild from losses. I don't know if PzB will give me the time to grab one of the empty bases on the other side of Timor that will allow me to leverage off of my existing bases in Timor, but if he does, I'm going after one or more of them as soon as I can. This is where the P-39 to P-38 conversion will definitely help shift the balance of power and I don't want to rush things and waste the opportunity. I can use up a replacement rate of 80 P-38s per month pretty quickly if I get into an air war of attrition before I am prepared for it.

It appears that malaria has levelled-out the situation in Burma. PzB and I have troops in contact, but neither of us is attacking. Certainly my troops are too weak, and I expect that PzBs troops are equally weak. PzB just uses my troops are target practice for his inexperienced air units. I'm not happy about the fact that the AVG will eventually return to action in isolated Mandalay. This business of allowing units to "magically" appear in isolated bases is effectively a bug, although it is working "as currently designed" and it should be changed to either hold back the release of the units or move the release to a different, non-isolated base.

The problem of forces appearing in isolated bases is much more than an "irritation" in India, where forces continue to appear "out of nowhere" to either be slaughtered instantly or to be trapped for eventual slaughter. Now that the Developers have seen that this can happen, they need to change the code to prevent it from happening in future revisions of the game. The current "as designed" conditions for India are just so terrible that I can't really get interested in that area any more. I'll try to move around the eventual survivors of Karachi as "partisans", but the movement and combat rules are so bad that it is really just a test to determine just how bad the rules really are, rather than any serious sort of game playing. As I said at the beginning, Japanese players ought to invade India at the earliest possible point in the game, and in particular go right after Karachi, if only to more quickly save the Allied player from wasting time on that theatre. I see the Indian situation as currently modelled in the game as analogous to the Philippines Islands in December 1941.

PzB has ignored land operations in China and focussed instead on training inexperienced air groups by bombing isolated Chinese units that are out in the open. This has allowed me to extricate large numbers of Chinese units that were stuck on a mountain in the middle of nowhere. Unfortunately, these units are not regaining morale so their usefulness is very limited. I've spread out a number of units on the roads leading to the remaining Chinese bases in order to slow down any land attack that PzB might make. The one bright spot of the Chinese situation is that the bombers that escaped from India have been able to hit various Japanese bases in Chinese and do pose a minor but real threat if PzB isn't careful. I'm just disappointed that the "Soviet takeover" bug has robbed me of the ability to take advantage of PzB cleaning out his troops in central Manchuria. Once again, now that the Developers are aware of this, they owe it to the Customers to fix this.

The situation in the Soviet Union is static. PzB doesn't appear to want to invade, so my forces are simply building bases. There aren't a lot of forces there - if PzB were to bring his Indian veterans to Siberia he could probably roll over the mainland Soviet forces quite quickly. But I would certainly do my best to get forces into Petropavlask and beyond to try to interfere if he did invade.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 236
RE: Mid-Sept review... - 4/6/2005 1:27:03 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Nice analysis I more or less disagree re India though.

As soon as PZB landed at Madras and won there a retrerat should have been conducted back to the Ahmabad / Delhi (which should have been getting fortified from day 1) line I think Wobb would also admit (like most of us prior to this game) he overcommitted to Burma.

I have already stoppped an invasion of India in another PBEM that was launched a month earlier than PZB's and in similar force. (They got ashore but were only able to capture Chandpur (as its undefendable)

The IJA is stoppable but the key is high forts, attritting bombardment forces, plenty of reserves and HQ's, not wasting you limited UK pilot pool and IMHO an acceptance that if the IJA gets ashore at Madras the south is lost and you need to retreat and bide your time.

Dont forget damn near every formation you are attempting to defend with has been defeated and retreated at least once.

Fatigue is high/ Morale is low and HQ's are few and far between (isnt 3 and Burma Corps stuck in the south).

Anyway thats my tuppence worth.

(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 237
RE: Mid-Sept review... - 4/6/2005 1:37:59 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I should also mention that I ususally keep the 3rd Indian Corps with 2nd UK 18th UK and 7th Armd Bde plus 2 or 3 Art Regts prepped for Madras at Bangalore to cover the whole corner of India as to me thats the weak spot.

It wasnt until the Madras landing went sour IMO that Wobbly's defence went badly.

Without Bombardments and behind high forts 3 veteran British or Indian units can tie up two or three times as many IJA Divisons. An Aus Division is just icing on the cake add in a Warhawk and P 39 sqn from PI and actually India becomes a quagmire

And if you lose you run back to the prepped line that cant be flanked at Delhi Ahmabad.

Delhi is a city hex so is easy to defend with prepped and fresh troops and Ahmabad cannot be bombarded by sea.

p.s. not having a go at Wobbthis is all with 100% 20/20 hindsight

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 238
RE: Mid-Sept review... - 4/6/2005 1:41:31 AM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		I enjoyed your well-written report. I agree that the game should contain some contingency in the event that Karachi is endangered; perhaps arrival of ships later on the west edge of the map, or no arrival at all. I have no clue how easy that would be to re-code. And if I were czar, I'd have a rule for India that parallels that for North America and kamikazes: if enemy troops land anywhere west of Chandpur, two or more British divisions show up at Karachi fairly quickly. Likewise, we'd all probably wish we could do something about the Burma railroad, which needs to be "built" later in the game rather than beginning on-map.

That said, I'm not sure I see the initial order of battle in India as fatally flawed. Is there any major ship or ground unit missing? I don't see any other AAR in which the Japanese player has had this kind of success in India, even though others have ventured there from time to time. Might it not be the peculiar circumstances of this game -- Wobbly's decision to defend forward, PzB's concomitant decision to commit to India? If you and PzB started from scratch, isn't it quite possible that you'd have a counterpunch ready for him? If several Japanese divisions and CVs are tied down in India, doesn't that give the Allied player a free hand elsewhere -- assuming that supply, troops and naval/air forces have been assembled by the Allied player in an orderly manner?

Yes, the ground-combat rules aren't a thing of beauty, but I don't see them as so horribly flawed either. Yes, they favor the attacker, but that will help the Allies later. The big picture seems roughly right to me: the player who brings the most troops and supply usually wins. To be sure, none of us plays this game for its land-combat engine; "Korsun Pocket" it's not. But the naval- and air-combat models, while still flawed, are compelling enough to keep our attention. No other game comes close, except for PacWar.

Anyway, I'm really enjoying this AAR, and I'm rooting for you. I still think you're gonna win this thing.

(in reply to ADavidB)
Post #: 239
RE: Mid-Sept review... - 4/6/2005 1:52:00 AM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		Thanks for the comments Andy. Certainly in my other PBEMs I've been careful to set up a defense in depth in India and let the jungle in Burma slow down the Japanese. Actually, the effect of jungle on advances is quite reasonable and I suspect that the Designers assumed that a Japanese player would attempt to advance through Burma, not do a naval invasion.

What concerns me is that a good Japanese player could do the following, starting in early 1942 after grabbing Singapore, Malaya and Rangoon:

1 - Send the KB into the Indian Ocean to hunt down the Brit naval and sink it from the air. Even if the Allies pull the AVG in there isn't much to stop the KB.

2 - Land and capture Celon and use it as a staging base.

3 - Go after Bombay, then Karachi via naval invasions.

4 - Mop up the rest at your leisure, since they won't be getting reinforcements or supplies.

There is little in India in Feb/Mar/Apr 1942 to stop this. And you can go back and capture the DEI at your leisure afterwards.

In any event, I'm defending against that contingency in my other games.

Thanks again,

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 240
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