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Needed NOW! - 4/10/2005 2:31:49 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Looking for saves with aircraft production vanishing.

The saves I have have not been of use, send more with as much info as to what is going on.

Not to put pressure on you or anything, but it is holding up the patch!

< Message edited by Mr.Frag -- 4/14/2005 3:19:48 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/10/2005 2:33:42 AM   
doktorblood


Posts: 648
Joined: 2/14/2003
Status: offline 		Ja! What he said! You guys get on the ball!

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(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 2
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/10/2005 3:00:24 AM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		Is there any way we could try to reproduce this is ourselves by starting up the 1943 or 1944 campaign scenario or something?

(in reply to doktorblood)
Post #: 3
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/10/2005 3:18:17 AM   
Iridium


Posts: 932
Joined: 4/1/2005
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		I'm sure that if Frag knew how to reproduce the problem he wouldn't be asking for the saves. Then again maybe he just wants more saves to confirm something.

As it were, I'd love to help but haven't come across this issue. At least to my knowledge...

Edit: Bah...spelling...

(in reply to Grotius)
Post #: 4
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/10/2005 4:05:03 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

Is there any way we could try to reproduce this is ourselves by starting up the 1943 or 1944 campaign scenario or something?


If I could answer that, I wouldn't be asking for saves. Mike couldn't find it in the ones submitted. If Mike can't find, Mike can't fix.

(in reply to Grotius)
Post #: 5
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/10/2005 5:52:08 AM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		Yeah, I figured as much, Frag. Dang.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 6
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/10/2005 5:53:04 AM   
Zeta16


Posts: 1199
Joined: 11/20/2002
From: Columbus. Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

Is there any way we could try to reproduce this is ourselves by starting up the 1943 or 1944 campaign scenario or something?


If I could answer that, I wouldn't be asking for saves. Mike couldn't find it in the ones submitted. If Mike can't find, Mike can't fix.



I will ramp up upproduction and get a turn where I lose 21 and sent tit to you. I can not say when it will happen as it is random. Is this Ok.

_____________________________

"Ours was the first revolution in the history of mankind that truly reversed the course of government, and with three little words: 'We the people.' 'We the people' tell the government what to do, it doesn't tell us." -Ronald Reagan

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 7
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/10/2005 1:42:27 PM   
Djordje

 

Posts: 537
Joined: 9/12/2004
Status: offline 		I can provide a save where Japan is loosing 1 Glen every day.
It is after some 47 of them have been lost, pool is 0 and production stopped. It can be restarted and they will continue to vanish...
If this is what you need I'll send it.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 8
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/10/2005 7:20:26 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Yep

(in reply to Djordje)
Post #: 9
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/11/2005 10:16:38 AM   
sermil

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 2/22/2004
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Status: offline 		I've got a game against the AI in which there are hundreds of zeroes in the 'used' pool that I haven't seen the trace of. Do you think it would be useful?

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 10
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/11/2005 4:51:37 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Please read carefully and comment on whether your plane losses happen to fit the profile:

"Ships/CV's that have been sunk are still drawing replacements."

Does anyone have a scenario where this is *not* the case? So far, this looks to be it. Looking for a situation where this is *not* the case if any can be found.

One bug has been found for the above situation, want to be sure there is not another hiding so keep digging into your game looking for it.

On a side note, as Mike has been digging through the saves, he has commented on a lot of them being no issue due to aircraft simply not being produced. It would seem a lot of folks are hung up on the reported number showing but do not actually check that their factories are in a position to produce aircraft.

(in reply to sermil)
Post #: 11
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/11/2005 5:12:29 PM   
harrer

 

Posts: 753
Joined: 12/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Please read carefully and comment on whether your plane losses happen to fit the profile:

"Ships/CV's that have been sunk are still drawing replacements."

Does anyone have a scenario where this is *not* the case? So far, this looks to be it. Looking for a situation where this is *not* the case if any can be found.

One bug has been found for the above situation, want to be sure there is not another hiding so keep digging into your game looking for it.

On a side note, as Mike has been digging through the saves, he has commented on a lot of them being no issue due to aircraft simply not being produced. It would seem a lot of folks are hung up on the reported number showing but do not actually check that their factories are in a position to produce aircraft.


So the patch is postponed ? Or will be downloadable this week ?



Harrer

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 12
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/11/2005 5:31:58 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Patch is posponed until this is fixed, there is obviously no point putting it out with plane eating code.

(in reply to harrer)
Post #: 13
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/11/2005 6:03:17 PM   
harrer

 

Posts: 753
Joined: 12/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Patch is posponed until this is fixed, there is obviously no point putting it out with plane eating code.








Please to all of you guys, send him saves so that I can begin my pbem

Harrer

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 14
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/11/2005 7:38:30 PM   
doktorblood


Posts: 648
Joined: 2/14/2003
Status: offline 		Seems that you guys have found the varmint!

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Post #: 15
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/11/2005 8:24:18 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		What Frag describes sure sounds like it fits the problem. It would explain why people see Zekes and Glens disappear, and why we don't hear about such problems with Oscars or Tonys. Those pesky shipboard aircraft keep drawing replacements.

I sure hope that's it. In any case, I for one am willing to wait until this bug is definitively stomped.

(in reply to doktorblood)
Post #: 16
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/12/2005 2:30:16 AM   
Zeta16


Posts: 1199
Joined: 11/20/2002
From: Columbus. Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Please read carefully and comment on whether your plane losses happen to fit the profile:

"Ships/CV's that have been sunk are still drawing replacements."

Does anyone have a scenario where this is *not* the case? So far, this looks to be it. Looking for a situation where this is *not* the case if any can be found.

One bug has been found for the above situation, want to be sure there is not another hiding so keep digging into your game looking for it.

On a side note, as Mike has been digging through the saves, he has commented on a lot of them being no issue due to aircraft simply not being produced. It would seem a lot of folks are hung up on the reported number showing but do not actually check that their factories are in a position to produce aircraft.



So what you are saying is that the used number from the production page is not right, or am I missing something.

_____________________________

"Ours was the first revolution in the history of mankind that truly reversed the course of government, and with three little words: 'We the people.' 'We the people' tell the government what to do, it doesn't tell us." -Ronald Reagan

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 17
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/12/2005 3:24:21 PM   
Djordje

 

Posts: 537
Joined: 9/12/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

"Ships/CV's that have been sunk are still drawing replacements."

Does anyone have a scenario where this is *not* the case?


I had a problem with Ki-61 Tony, lost lots of them, and I am 100% certain of it, as I had only one Tony squadron on a whole map at that time. It was full of planes (36), and used plane number was 43, and kept rising. They never flew any mission before that, never transfered from base to base, they had stand down orders, and had no combat nor ops losses. All I did with them was upgrading them from Nates, and dividing them in separate Chutais in order to speed up repair. It is one of the two nate squadrons that arrive in Manchuria after few months, 68th or 78th.
That is the same save I've sent already, one with Glen problem. Frag, maybe you can stand down all planes on map, and put those two squadrons to accept replacements, stop all production and see if they will continue to draw Tonies. Try dividing them into A/B/C chutais as I did that too.
As it is PBEM I cannot do it myslf to test it.
Hope this helps.

P.S. Can you please look at the save I've sent and tell me how to get rid of those ghost squadrons on Kaga, Soryu and Hiryu (and one othe CVL, can't remember the name at the moment)? I've tried everything, they cannot be transfered to land, only to other CV, but next turn they return to their original CV. They were created one turn after I manually upgraded squadrons from A6M2 to A6M3a. Some were onboard, some were in the port where CV was at the time of upgrade. So far the only way to avoid that was to transfer whole squadron to port, put it on stand down for two or more turns and then upgrade manually. If I don't wait, or wait only 1 turn ghost squadron appears.

< Message edited by Djordje -- 4/12/2005 3:27:13 PM >

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 18
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/12/2005 7:23:42 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		Would an air unit destroyed while be transported on an AK also continue to draw replacements?

(in reply to Djordje)
Post #: 19
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/12/2005 8:57:49 PM   
Mike Wood


Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline 		Hello...

With the new rule, any air group that starts the game on a ship will not draw replacements, if that ship has been sunk. This does not apply to American ships that are replaced.

Bye...

Michael Wood

quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

Would an air unit destroyed while be transported on an AK also continue to draw replacements?


(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 20
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/12/2005 9:31:07 PM   
doktorblood


Posts: 648
Joined: 2/14/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood

Hello...

With the new rule, any air group that starts the game on a ship will not draw replacements, if that ship has been sunk. This does not apply to American ships that are replaced.

Bye...

Michael Wood

[


Whoa! Does that mean orphaned airgroups can never recieve replacements?


_____________________________


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Post #: 21
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/12/2005 9:50:55 PM   
wild_Willie2


Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline
quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood

Hello...

With the new rule, any air group that starts the game on a ship will not draw replacements, if that ship has been sunk. This does not apply to American ships that are replaced.

Bye...

Michael Wood

[

Whoa! Does that mean orphaned airgroups can never recieve replacements?


THAT IS NOT RIGHT, LOOSE A CARRIER and 3 AIR GROUPS are automatically LOST WITH IT (even if they are on land at the time!!)

_____________________________

In vinum illic est sapientia , in matera illic est vires , in aqua illic es bacteria.

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there are bacteria.

(in reply to doktorblood)
Post #: 22
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/12/2005 9:58:13 PM   
harrer

 

Posts: 753
Joined: 12/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood

Hello...

With the new rule, any air group that starts the game on a ship will not draw replacements, if that ship has been sunk. This does not apply to American ships that are replaced.

Bye...

Michael Wood

[

Whoa! Does that mean orphaned airgroups can never recieve replacements?


THAT IS NOT RIGHT, LOOSE A CARRIER and 3 AIR GROUPS are automatically LOST WITH IT (even if they are on land at the time!!)


Sure ? I had some coming back as allied player .. but my experience isn't so big as allied player ..

Harrer

(in reply to wild_Willie2)
Post #: 23
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/12/2005 10:11:24 PM   
Oznoyng

 

Posts: 818
Joined: 4/16/2004
From: Mars
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood

Hello...

With the new rule, any air group that starts the game on a ship will not draw replacements, if that ship has been sunk. This does not apply to American ships that are replaced.

Bye...

Michael Wood

[

Whoa! Does that mean orphaned airgroups can never recieve replacements?


THAT IS NOT RIGHT, LOOSE A CARRIER and 3 AIR GROUPS are automatically LOST WITH IT (even if they are on land at the time!!)

I agree. This isn't a fix, it's a bandaid. Receiving no replacements basically means you've lost the airgroup, no matter what happens.

(in reply to wild_Willie2)
Post #: 24
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/12/2005 11:16:09 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		You are free to manually disband other groups into these groups if you choose to.

(in reply to Oznoyng)
Post #: 25
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/12/2005 11:30:49 PM   
wild_Willie2


Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline 		yeah, sure, loose an airgroup for 90 days every time you disband a "healty" airgroup into a "patched to death" one

_____________________________

In vinum illic est sapientia , in matera illic est vires , in aqua illic es bacteria.

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there are bacteria.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 26
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/12/2005 11:44:45 PM   
Armorer

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 4/8/2002
From: Englewood, OH
Status: offline 		Then do what was done in real life, and disband the original group, whose ship no longer exists, to be used as a cadre in a newly formed CAG. To the best of my knowledge, when CV-2 Lexington went down, her air group was not transferred to Noumea or Brisbane to continue operations from the South Pacific. If I'm not mistaken, the remnants were used as a cadre to form the air group for one of the new Essex class being built. I'm not positive, but I believe the Japanese Navy did the same ( in the few instances where anything was left of the CAG's from sunk Jap carriers, anyway ).

Regards,
Randy

Edit: I understand that you can't disband them into air groups that aren't yet formed, but I hope you understand the gist of my point.

< Message edited by Armorer -- 4/12/2005 11:48:29 PM >

(in reply to wild_Willie2)
Post #: 27
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/13/2005 1:16:55 AM   
erstad

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline 		Can't disband carrier air groups.

(in reply to Armorer)
Post #: 28
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/13/2005 1:30:21 AM   
latosusi

 

Posts: 327
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: London/Kuopio
Status: offline 		I really feel bad! I was expecting to get a 'mega patch' any time soon. But now you need
more save game's from us! Do me a favour! What is your next plan? It looks like your testers
were sitting on their back sides all the time! For my money i should get little more than
that!

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 29
RE: Needed NOW! - 4/13/2005 2:33:42 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Anyone else find a NON-SHIP based aircraft going into thin air that is actually putting enough materials into the factory so it runs?

(in reply to latosusi)
Post #: 30
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