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Asiatic Fleet HQ - 4/30/2005 10:40:42 PM   
Gem35


Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline 		Any of you Allied players care to comment on where you send this, if you manage to get it out safely from Manilla?

I am thinking either sending it back to pearl, or , as I love Brisbane as my main Harbor , I can send it there.
Post #: 1
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 12:58:53 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		Personally I send it to one of the northern Aus ports. Whichever one I decide to make my main Sub base. It is my sub-repair-slave-master HQ

(in reply to Gem35)
Post #: 2
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 1:51:02 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline 		How do you move them? Subs?

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Post #: 3
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 1:52:31 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		The transports that are in Manila on Dec. 7. But you have to get them out quickly. Once a large base falls, anything leaving Manila is going to become a fish farm.

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Post #: 4
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 1:56:36 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline 		I surge all my transports out of the PI on turn one. By the time the place gets to falling, I dont even have enough subs around to pick up the peices (they all end up staging out of Darwin by then). Besides that, I have much better things to spend PPs on than that at the start of the game.

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Post #: 5
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 2:34:46 AM   
DrewMatrix


Posts: 1429
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline 		To get it out:

You only need to get a cadre out. When Manilla falls and all the Allied LCUs in the PI are destroyed, that cadre will become the main unit and regrow. By about Feb 43 or so it is full strength as I recall.

Where to put it:

I gather the biggest advantage to Fleet HQs is the repair bonus. So I put it in a large port where I send badly damaged major ships to save the time going to Pearl and returning. Noumea or Melbourne for example.

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RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 2:48:08 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
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quote:

You only need to get a cadre out.


Telling people to game the system eh?

This is the very first thing I will trash in 1.6 so enjoy it while you can.

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Post #: 7
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 2:53:16 AM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
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Status: offline 		Any base with a naval yard.

Sydney, not Brisbane.

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Post #: 8
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 2:53:25 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline 		People already knew how to game the system. And how, pray tell, will you trash this, since its one of the basic rules of this entire engine?

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Post #: 9
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 3:04:23 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
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From: Purgatory
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quote:

People already knew how to game the system. And how, pray tell, will you trash this, since its one of the basic rules of this entire engine?


Fairly simple actually ... if unitsize < 15%, replacements = OFF

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 10
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 3:05:03 AM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
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Status: offline 		So what good are PP's then? If someone wants to spend 600 PP's to get out a couple of infantry squads, so what.

This pretty much takes PP's out of the picture except for officer replacement and keeping the RN around.

Everyone knows by now that it doesn't make any difference what HQ a unit belongs to.

How about nixing the random AI supply pull, and giving the players some control over where their logistical support is needed.

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Post #: 11
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 3:12:45 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
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quote:

So what good are PP's then? If someone wants to spend 600 PP's to get out a couple of infantry squads, so what.


Read it carefully, if you take a good sized chunk out, fine ... if you sub transport 1 squad, bye bye.

(in reply to Halsey)
Post #: 12
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 4:11:23 AM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem35

Any of you Allied players care to comment on where you send this, if you manage to get it out safely from Manilla?

I am thinking either sending it back to pearl, or , as I love Brisbane as my main Harbor , I can send it there.


Personally I prefer to leave it and place it with the front line combat troops. The extra support squads help your untrained line units fight much better against the Japanese since most units lack sufficient support. I even move Mac’s HQ into the front if things develop on two fronts; the added support makes a huge difference for land combats. Or at least it appears to make a difference.

Jim


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Post #: 13
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 4:35:49 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

People already knew how to game the system. And how, pray tell, will you trash this, since its one of the basic rules of this entire engine?


Fairly simple actually ... if unitsize < 15%, replacements = OFF


Great. Thank you Frag. Now I cant have my units do stands to the death? My heritage balks at that. And what if it happened to be reduced to that of its own accord. For example, I have these 2 BFs in the PI that refuse to retreat and keep getting hammered around until they get chased back to CF. If they started off at 50%, after the first attack they are reduced to 25%, the second, 10% or so, by the time they make it to friendly lines theyre 0/4. So if I were to pull that legitimately damaged unit out I get punished for it? I could understand if the entire USFFE could not change HQ, but what have the Dutch done to you? Besides, there is nothing historically implausable about proud units that fought bravely in the PI being reconstituted, this is another way of doing it. Not like the damn thing will be good for anything but sucking up reinforcements for the next year.

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Post #: 14
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 4:39:42 AM   
ADavidB


Posts: 2464
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From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

This is the very first thing I will trash in 1.6 so enjoy it while you can.


Cool - you're going to get to work on the next rev? Congrats! Let us know what it is like to work on the code. Are you going to have much freedom with the "guts"?

Good luck -

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 15
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 4:44:37 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline 		Stop it Dave. Dont encourage him. He might just go and screw over the entire ASW deal just to spite Ron.

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Post #: 16
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 4:51:27 AM   
pmelheck1

 

Posts: 610
Joined: 4/3/2003
From: Alabama
Status: offline 		Personally I don't allways view evacing HQ's as gaming the system, but more as evacuating the senior command staff. Something akin to dugout dougs trip from the P.I. to aust.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 17
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 5:22:43 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		I've pointed out to Frag before that among the troops evacuated from the PI were the mechanics, both aircraft and naval. Obviously, these were not the whole units, but just a cadre of them. So he now wants to prevent us from being able to do what was historically done.

Many of us do not grab tiny portions af all units so they can be rebuilt, but we do grab tiny portions of a couple of important support units. This is certainly a pretty weak method of gaming the system, especially when what Frag is complaining about is easily handled by house rules.

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fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to pmelheck1)
Post #: 18
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 6:18:19 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

I've pointed out to Frag before that among the troops evacuated from the PI were the mechanics, both aircraft and naval.


I have also pointed out back to you that the historical units these guys were merged in do already exist. You can't have it both ways ... either we nix the oob replacements and let you pull 'em or don't let you pull 'em as they are already represented in other units.

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 19
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 6:23:37 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		If the "<15%" rule is applied, the fragment should be disband (removed) and its devices added back to the replacement pool.
That way the "mechanics" can be merged into existing formations as replacements.

Michael

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 20
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 7:18:46 AM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

You only need to get a cadre out.


Telling people to game the system eh?

This is the very first thing I will trash in 1.6 so enjoy it while you can.



Great! This one needs to go!

_____________________________


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Post #: 21
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 7:29:24 AM   
Gem35


Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline 		I agree, I don't even use my subs for transports. I used the AK's there to transport the Brass. Heck, you can't argue with the CIC. gamey or not, I try save any HQ I can.

(in reply to Tanaka)
Post #: 22
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 7:40:37 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline 		This is ridiculous. I cant believe that people are seriously considering this. I am as much for getting rid of the BS, 1 squad pullouts from the PI as the next guy. But what Frag is proposing is just plain lunacy that cannot be accomplished with this game engine without screwing up 15 other things.

Suppose I have a unit that took legitimate combat damage. I cant reconstitute it?

Suppose I loaded a unit onto 3 APs and an APD and all the APs got sunk. I cant reconstitute that either?

What if I divided a unit, 2 of the subdivisions were destroyed and the last one went below 15%, all in the same attack? I'm screwed then also, huh?

As far as I'm concerned, if you paid the PPs to change the HQ of an entire unit, you should be free to do with it as you damned well please. If you can evac the whole thing, great. If you can only pull out 3 men and the HQ company's coffee maker, them's the breaks. As I mentioned above, if you programming wizards can figure out a way to make it so that none of the units in the PI can change HQ, I'm all for it. But please, for the glory of god, dont start screwing around with something that works just because you can't settle on what's fair or not. Like Bradford said, this can be easily handled with house rules, and if your PBEM opponent doesnt mind, then it doesnt matter. I know for a fact that the AI I play against doesnt give a flying f@ck, and if I ever decided to give it a sporting chance, I wont pull 'em out.

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(in reply to Tanaka)
Post #: 23
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 7:46:35 AM   
Gem35


Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline 		Hi everyone

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 24
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 7:48:38 AM   
hithere

 

Posts: 432
Joined: 4/13/2004
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		hithere

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Post #: 25
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 7:52:03 AM   
hithere

 

Posts: 432
Joined: 4/13/2004
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		my 2 cents is that the unit have the option to disband and re appear in 2 years. (or how ever long you would say to retrain a division) I know the U.S. Army is looking at adding a couple new div and they are saying about 4 years to fully outfit them with soldiers (notice the political correctness) and equipment.

_____________________________

Quote from one of my drill sergeants, "remember, except for the extreme heat, intense radiation, and powerful blast wave, a nuclear explosion is just like any other explosion"

(in reply to hithere)
Post #: 26
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 8:54:44 AM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		When you allow units to respawn, as was historical, I'll stop pulling cadres. Make them reform by drawing units from the pool in the 365 days or whatever. But completely annialating them and then preaching that it's gamey, is a bit hypocritcal.

-F-

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Post #: 27
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 9:11:54 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Maybe we can automatically disband small fragment LCU, devices back to pool and then reform xxx days later like air groups.

You would not want to let the parent units disband, since it would then lead to people "disbanding" LCUs just before a battle they couldn't win and thus not give VPs to other side.

quote:

Mr.Frag
This is the very first thing I will trash in 1.6 so enjoy it while you can.


I don't think this means that there isn't a proper method to handle this situation that can satisfy most people.

Michael

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 28
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 9:51:09 AM   
hithere

 

Posts: 432
Joined: 4/13/2004
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
quote:

You would not want to let the parent units disband, since it would then lead to people "disbanding" LCUs just before a battle they couldn't win and thus not give VPs to other side.


that is another reason to make the wait time long. also, maybe make it so that LCU's can only be disbanded in the area HQ, ie; Brisbane, San Fran, Karchi, etc. that way they would also have to travel the distance, unless the allied player is not doing well!

_____________________________

Quote from one of my drill sergeants, "remember, except for the extreme heat, intense radiation, and powerful blast wave, a nuclear explosion is just like any other explosion"

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 29
RE: Asiatic Fleet HQ - 5/1/2005 10:44:47 AM   
pauk


Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hithere

my 2 cents is that the unit have the option to disband and re appear in 2 years. (or how ever long you would say to retrain a division) I know the U.S. Army is looking at adding a couple new div and they are saying about 4 years to fully outfit them with soldiers (notice the political correctness) and equipment.


This is a very good idea. I have some additional suggestions:

1. you can disband LCU unit. (This should cost some PP - public opinion would be very negative if you do such things). Opponent gets points for disbanded units (you leave equipement in enemy territory, most of the soldiers will be inprisoned)

advantages: - you can rebuilt this unit (ok, we can debute if all units can be disbanded or just US and Brits; doesnt matter now)
- your opponent can not use isolated units for easy combat training of his pilots

_____________________________


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Post #: 30
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