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Japanese Patrol Planes - 5/14/2005 12:06:36 AM   
lordmaul13

 

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Hi,

The few times I’ve played as the Allies I’ve noted they have a large number of dedicated patrol aircraft. It seemed like I was always tripping over these things. Like I could probably build a pontoon bridge from PH to Midway out of them if I wanted to.

Japan on the other had has a much smaller number of this type of aircraft.

How do you, as the Japanese commander, address this deficit? I would prefer to have my long-range bombers actually bombing targets rather than patrolling so I would prefer not to put them on naval searches. The Japanese do have a large number of recon AC and they could certainly be used to supplement the Mavis and Emily patrols. However they tend to have much shorter ranges than Betties or Nells for example. How do you strike the balance between gathering long range intel and keeping your bombers doing what they do best; bombing?

Thanks in advance.

lordmaul13

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Post #: 1
RE: Japanese Patrol Planes - 5/14/2005 12:21:33 AM   
Terminus


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You should take advantage of the seaplanes' VERY long range and spread them out, using AV's as necessary to create seaplane bases.

(in reply to lordmaul13)
Post #: 2
RE: Japanese Patrol Planes - 5/14/2005 12:21:52 AM   
Mike Solli


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You have to take it all in perspective. The Japanese don't really have a lot of anything. In my opinion, I think the Japanese has enough Mavis/Emily units to cover what they need to cover. Keep in mind that they also have the Dinah. I usually use what I feel has an appropriate range for the appropriate location. I like to use the Mavis/Emily in the central Pacific and the Dinah in DEI and Burma, where the extremely long range isn't really required.

(in reply to lordmaul13)
Post #: 3
RE: Japanese Patrol Planes - 5/14/2005 12:32:41 AM   
mogami


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Hi, Use the flying boats in central locations. Fill in with recon types (Dinah) They have range for bases being protected by CV type (Kate/Val) and short range Army types (Lilly/Mary/Ann)
At bases where you have long range bombers use the Chutai (9 aircraft in the group) for search and the Daitai for Naval strike.
The flying boats should also be used for ASW. Say a group at Iwo Jima and then Saipan and then Truk. Now you have ASW from Tokyo to Rabaul by placing a Alf group at Bonin A Jake group at Tokyo and a float plane group at Rabaul and Shortlands.
You want to interlock range to cover all the hexes. Also don't use extended range. recon aircraft cannot fly ASW but can fly naval patrol so use float planes for ASW. You have many large groups. Place these at Major bases (Truk/Kwajalean) set to around 60 percent so that pilots are always resting (helps keep the fatigue down and morale up)
Also I only fly patrol groups at 50 to 60 percent. I use two or more groups rather then wear out one. You also want long range Chutai placed at bases where they can reach enemy bases to do recon from time to time. The Betty/Nell chutai are excellent for this. You want to conduct recon at 10k or higher and Naval Patrol at 6k and ASW at 3k.


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RE: Japanese Patrol Planes - 5/14/2005 7:05:27 AM   
lordmaul13

 

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Thanks guys, there's some great stuff there. I appreciate it.

lordmaul13

_____________________________

Then let the trumpets sound the tucket-sonance and the note to mount!
For our approach shall so much dare the field England shall couch down in fear and yield.

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 5
RE: Japanese Patrol Planes - 5/14/2005 7:37:28 AM   
Brady


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"The Betty/Nell chutai are excellent for this. You want to conduct recon at 10k or higher and Naval Patrol at 6k and ASW at 3k"

Why these spcific Alt's, I use different ones, and espichaly Recon, it varys depending on threat.



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Post #: 6
RE: Japanese Patrol Planes - 5/14/2005 12:49:26 PM   
Tristanjohn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady


"The Betty/Nell chutai are excellent for this. You want to conduct recon at 10k or higher and Naval Patrol at 6k and ASW at 3k"

Why these spcific Alt's, I use different ones, and espichaly Recon, it varys depending on threat.




You can fly you reconnaissance flights at 1,000 feet if you want. (The manual specifically states that the lower the altitude on recon flights, the more accurate the information gathered will be.) At least as the Allies. PBYs are rarely hit by flak or caught by fighters. It seems to me the Japanese snoops get caught more often--at least in my games. If a PBY is hit the morale of the squadron will drop, but not alarmingly, probably just into the 70s range. In that case you could either stand it down for a couple of days or curtail it flying activities to 50%, say. I prefer the latter, as the squadron will then get back to the high 90s for morale quickly, and that's where I like ot keep my aircraft whenever possible.

I fly my ASW at 1,000 feet, but I'm not sure there's any difference between this and 2,000 fett or 6,000 feet for that matter. Naval search at 6,000 sounds reasonable, though in the war these patrols regularly ranged around at much higher altitudes.

As for fatigue: I can't speak for the Japanese (though I don't understand why it would be different), but Allied recon planes can be flown at 100% without any worry of getting fatigued.

What I like to do when planes are short and I want to recon a base (I do a lot of recon--you can never have too much intelligence) is to set a PBY squadron at 80% Naval Search, then let the others do reconnaissance flights to wherever. So, for example, let's say you had a squadron of 12 PBYs at Baker Island and you wanted to keep an eye on the Japanese at Tarawa. Set that squadron to recon Tarawa, then set its Naval Search to 80%. That way you have all bases covered.

Definitely set up a web of Naval Search that overlaps as much as possible, especially as the Allies early in the war. My coverage in my first PBEM game with Chez/Joe goes like this, running north to south to west: Kiska-Dutch Harbor-Anchorage-Sitka-Prince Rupert-Seattle-San Francisco-San Diego-Midway-Pearl Harbor-Johnston Island-Palmyra-Baker Island-Canton-Pago Pago-Suva-Luganville-Noumea-Auckland-Sydney-Brisbane-Townsville-Kiriwina-Port Moreseby-Darwin-Derby-Broome-Perth, and up in the Bay of Bengal/Indian Ocean it runs Andaman Islands-Akyab-Chandpur-Trincomalee-Colombo-Panaji-Karachi. In that manner everything that can overlap in coverage does. My only gap is along Sumatra, which I don't own and so I can't do anything about that.

Basically, in this game whenever possible every asset should be doing something every turn. It's like warships: mine are either training or repairing, patrolling or hauling supplies and/or troops somewhere every turn. They never sit around idly in some port with zero damage. Ship transports? As the Allied player all of mine are always hauling something somewhere. As a Japanese player you may or may not have that luxury or necessity. The word is after awhile they don't have much to haul with their APs and AKs. The Allies always have something to haul somewhere.

Planes in combat will need rest. But if a plane isn't resting for more known combat action I have it running ASW patrols if nothing else. This both trains pilots and keeps an eye out for enemy subs--you never know! For bombers that are already rested, set those for Naval Attack at 10% search and always be getting something out of their potential--and they'll never get tired with that command.





(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 7
RE: Japanese Patrol Planes - 5/14/2005 1:09:41 PM   
castor troy


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I´m doing naval search as Japanese also on 100% and have never noticed neither a drop of morale nor increasing fatigue.

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RE: Japanese Patrol Planes - 5/14/2005 1:18:35 PM   
Tristanjohn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

I´m doing naval search as Japanese also on 100% and have never noticed neither a drop of morale nor increasing fatigue.


That's what I would have figured, but I haven't played the Japanese enough to know. After all, though, it's the same system at work so why should it be different for them?



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Post #: 9
RE: Japanese Patrol Planes - 5/14/2005 1:25:29 PM   
mogami


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Hi, You do know that when a pilot with high fatigue crashes into the ocean the groups fatigue goes down. If you have replacements on then a fresh pilot will appear. You may never notice. I'll check enemy op loss and post here.

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Post #: 10
RE: Japanese Patrol Planes - 5/14/2005 1:28:45 PM   
Tristanjohn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, You do know that when a pilot with high fatigue crashes into the ocean the groups fatigue goes down. If you have replacements on then a fresh pilot will appear. You may never notice. I'll check enemy op loss and post here.


Sure, fatigue is averaged, just like skill.

Where's my turn?



(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 11
RE: Japanese Patrol Planes - 5/14/2005 1:31:41 PM   
mogami


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Hi, I just got home (6:34am EST) An all nighter with Bear. I'm making a pot of coffee. and then I'm starting on turns. Yours is already downloaded and ready to rip. I just had a strange feeling of Deja' Vu

< Message edited by Mogami -- 5/14/2005 1:32:12 PM >


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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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Post #: 12
RE: Japanese Patrol Planes - 5/14/2005 1:37:30 PM   
Tristanjohn


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From: Daly City CA USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, I just got home (6:34am EST) An all nighter with Bear. I'm making a pot of coffee. and then I'm starting on turns. Yours is already downloaded and ready to rip. I just had a strange feeling of Deja' Vu


Was your feeling of regular déjà vu, or déjà vu all over again?

     Pop Quiz!

1) What famous baseball catcher used to say those sorts of things?

2) What team did he play for?

3) Who is the current manager of that team?

     Bonus Question: 10 points

What manager won the most games for this baseball team?


     (whosaidthisforumdoesntknowbaseball...heasked)




< Message edited by Tristanjohn -- 5/14/2005 6:48:04 PM >

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 13
RE: Japanese Patrol Planes - 5/14/2005 1:59:06 PM   
mogami


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Gathering all the rains
Of May,
The River Mogami rushes down
In one violent stream.

Yogi
Dodgers
Tracy
Alston

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Tristanjohn)
Post #: 14
RE: Japanese Patrol Planes - 5/14/2005 7:03:34 PM   
Tristanjohn


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From: Daly City CA USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Gathering all the rains
Of May,
The River Mogami rushes down
In one violent stream.

Yogi
Dodgers
Tracy
Alston



Well, haiku is supposed to have three lines of 5, 7 and 5 syllables, and refer to one of the seasons. I'll give you an A for effort.

It might better run:

    Gather rains of May
    as the river Mogami
    rushes down in stream

Or something like that.

    (ahem)

As for your answer to the quiz: I guess you're just one of those guys in the forum who doesn't know much about baseball. On the other hand, you did get one out of four.


(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 15
RE: Japanese Patrol Planes - 5/15/2005 6:06:25 AM   
mogami


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Gathering all the rains
Of May,
The River Mogami rushes down
In one violent stream.

Yogi
Dodgers
Tracy
Alston



Well, haiku is supposed to have three lines of 5, 7 and 5 syllables, and refer to one of the seasons. I'll give you an A for effort.

It might better run:

     Gather rains of May
     as the river Mogami
     rushes down in stream

Or something like that.

     (ahem)

As for your answer to the quiz: I guess you're just one of those guys in the forum who doesn't know much about baseball. On the other hand, you did get one out of four.




Hi, I think you should read up on Haiku more before grading the work of others. The above is an ENGLISH translation of Matsuo Munefusa. (the first great poet in the history of haikai) I'm pretty sure he knew what he was doing. Not always does a season need be a topic. Basho ( Matsuo's penname) often wrote things without a season.

Sleep on horseback,
The far moon in a continuing dream,
Steam of roasting tea

Good grief I had been up all night and had watched the Braves-Dodgers I had Dodger brain lock.

Yogi
Yankees
Torre
McCarthy or Casey Stengal (sic)?

< Message edited by Mogami -- 5/15/2005 6:17:50 AM >


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Post #: 16
RE: Japanese Patrol Planes - 5/15/2005 8:03:48 AM   
bradfordkay

 

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"Hi, You do know that when a pilot with high fatigue crashes into the ocean the groups fatigue goes down. If you have replacements on then a fresh pilot will appear. You may never notice. I'll check enemy op loss and post here."

Russ, I just checked my game (June 1, '42) since I have nearly all my patrol squadrons set at 80% Naval Search (or ASW). I could not find a single pilot with a fatigue rating higher than 7. Operational losses have been 2 Catalina Is and 7 PBYs. I used to play the level lower (60% like you say), but noticed that the default setting has always been 100%, so I've started using higher settings. It really dones't seem to matter.

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fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 17
RE: Japanese Patrol Planes - 5/15/2005 8:14:27 AM   
mogami


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Hi, OK I guess I will turn mine up. In the one game I looked at I had lost 1 flying boat and the Allies 8 to Op loss. I also don't fly at extended range.

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 18
RE: Japanese Patrol Planes - 5/15/2005 8:20:20 AM   
bradfordkay

 

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I don't know what Mavis/Emily replacement numbers look like (don't tell me), so it is possible that as the Japanese a player might be more careful. But if you're thinking of cranking it up, i guess that they can handle losses in that range, eh?

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 19
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