Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

ARs

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> ARs Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
ARs - 5/14/2005 1:13:16 PM   
Hartley


Posts: 255
Joined: 6/2/2003
Status: offline
Has a concensus emerged on how to best use them?

How many in a port, how many damaged ships they can help, size of port to put them in...etc'


<search doesn't work>

Post #: 1
RE: ARs - 5/14/2005 1:28:43 PM   
Arkady


Posts: 1262
Joined: 5/31/2002
From: 27th Penal Battalion
Status: offline
Well, main factor in ship repairs is port size, so bigger port is always better than AR ship...
Max effective number of AR ships per port is 4, I'm using 2 though

Put them in big ports (size 9 or 10) with Fleet HQ too

They don't help ships but enlarge port size for repair check calculations

_____________________________


(in reply to Hartley)
Post #: 2
RE: ARs - 5/14/2005 3:57:39 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline
It is a good idea if you make enough to move them forward to smaller ports near the battles to save damaged sips that may otherwise sink. Since 4 can stack it would make a size 3 port ( smallest that a ship can dock at) effectively a 7 for repair check, and would I assume help with flood and fire damage repair as well.

Once a ship is stable enough to not sink from flood or fire damage move it back to real repair yards.

(in reply to Arkady)
Post #: 3
RE: ARs - 5/14/2005 4:28:00 PM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline
Has stacking been confirmed?

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 4
RE: ARs - 5/14/2005 6:53:41 PM   
Xargun

 

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

Has stacking been confirmed?


Yes. Right from the developers.. ARs are stackable up to 4 in a port, PLUS an AD or AS if applicable. These ships, plus a Naval HQ will give any port the best chance for repairing ships per turn.. BUT, ARs, ADs or ASs can only lend aid to up to 4 ships each, so their effect is nice, it is limited.

Xargun

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 5
RE: ARs - 5/15/2005 9:02:41 AM   
Cmdrcain


Posts: 1161
Joined: 8/21/2000
From: Rebuilding FLA, Busy Repairing!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun


quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

Has stacking been confirmed?


Yes. Right from the developers.. ARs are stackable up to 4 in a port, PLUS an AD or AS if applicable. These ships, plus a Naval HQ will give any port the best chance for repairing ships per turn.. BUT, ARs, ADs or ASs can only lend aid to up to 4 ships each, so their effect is nice, it is limited.

Xargun







Too bad that they didn't code it so a MLE increases port size for the Mine re-loading, keeping it to a 9 port to re-load then a port would need be a 5
and have 4 MLE to reload mines


You only need 1 MLE in right size port to get around the port size...





_____________________________

Noise? What Noise? It's sooooo quiet and Peaceful!

Battlestar Pegasus

(in reply to Xargun)
Post #: 6
RE: ARs - 5/16/2005 12:17:00 AM   
Gem35


Posts: 3420
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline
I have 3 of them in Brisbane which has been built up to a size 9 port. I am just going on opinion here but in my game, Brisbane > Sydney , which of course has that repair yard. These fine ports are not repairing any of the big battlewagons though, strictly carriers and cruisers. the BB's are all either in pearl or frisco and they take forever regardless of repair yards/AR's/Fleet Hq's.

(in reply to Cmdrcain)
Post #: 7
RE: ARs - 5/16/2005 1:01:11 AM   
scott64


Posts: 4019
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline
I put a few BB's in Sydney to get repaired and they have been coming along nicely, No AR's in Sydney.

(in reply to Gem35)
Post #: 8
RE: ARs - 5/16/2005 1:52:15 AM   
Tristanjohn


Posts: 3027
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Daly City CA USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem35

I have 3 of them in Brisbane which has been built up to a size 9 port. I am just going on opinion here but in my game, Brisbane > Sydney , which of course has that repair yard. These fine ports are not repairing any of the big battlewagons though, strictly carriers and cruisers. the BB's are all either in pearl or frisco and they take forever regardless of repair yards/AR's/Fleet Hq's.


BBs with heavy (in the red) damage after the 7 December 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor should be sent to the west coast as soon as reasonably feasible. If so, these ships ought to be ready for active service sometime in mid-1942, with most of them upgraded one time. This assumes you distribute these ships to repair yards according to their severity of damage (the worst to San Francisco, next worst to Seattle, etc.) and do not crowd those ports with smaller selfish hulls. Ships in the pink might be left in Pearl, though that depends, too. How many battlewagons were sent to the west coast yards? How many ships are left in Pearl to be repaired? As a general rule I think it's wise to get as much use out of your west-coast repair yards as possible.

Early in the game your best bet as the Allied player is to send an AR or two to Noumea, one to Brisbane or Townsville and another (if left over) to Darwin. ARs ought to be located in smallish ports within proximity to wherever you're main fleets operate.

An AS should be dropped off in Darwin immediately the war begins, another couple to Queensland, Sydney should probably have one in port, possibly another in Melbourne, and one more sent to Noumea I'd think. You might even leave one in Broome, which would be handy for keeping the ports and waterways of Batavia and Palembang constantly mine-sown.

If the Japanese player does not play foolishly enough to try and hold Port Moresby--which he cannot long term and so anything he puts there dies early, thus weakening his defenses elsewhere--it might be best to use that AS in Townsville to mine-load the short-legged Dutch subs--these can be quite useful along the northern coast of Papua, say.

Once you possess an MLE send it immediately to the South (Noumea) or Southwest (probably Townsville) Pacific area. By that time (according to the stock reinforcement schedule) Noumea should be large enough to supply its own mines, but possibly not if you play with very variable reinforcements, as the MLE could arrive sooner, in which case you might best send it to Noumea first to sow the ports in that area with mines, then on to Townsville, where the short-legged Dutch MLs might keep Port Moresby, Milne Bay and the Louisiades mine infested (assuming the Japanese player feels lucky and tries to storm the southern shore of Papua New Guinea this could be quite useful), then on to northern Australia if and when you've satisfactorily taken care of that.

I've never seen a written response to the question of whether or not ARs, ADs and ASs can actually aid a port above either 9- or 10-level. Has anyone else? The rules would seem to imply that the maximum port size is 10 for repair calculations, while the maximum build size is only 9, so maybe the latter would represent the cutoff.


(in reply to Gem35)
Post #: 9
RE: ARs - 5/16/2005 3:29:57 AM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline
I did not realize that ASs could load mines on a sub. Have you confirmed this TristanJohn? I could not find this capability listed in the manual or the patch notes.

< Message edited by Nomad -- 5/16/2005 3:38:35 AM >

(in reply to Tristanjohn)
Post #: 10
RE: ARs - 5/16/2005 3:33:04 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
Check section 14.2.1 in the manual.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 11
RE: ARs - 5/16/2005 3:39:37 AM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Check section 14.2.1 in the manual.


Oops, I changed my post, I was asking about mines, not torps like I orginally posted. So sorry.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 12
RE: ARs - 5/16/2005 3:43:34 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
No problem... Then you're right: according to the manual (14.2.1 again), submarines need to be either in a size 9 or 10 port or a port with an MLE to load mines.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 13
RE: ARs - 5/17/2005 11:02:03 PM   
Tristanjohn


Posts: 3027
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Daly City CA USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

I did not realize that ASs could load mines on a sub. Have you confirmed this TristanJohn? I could not find this capability listed in the manual or the patch notes.


ASs cannot load subs with mines. I wanted to refer only to MLEs in that role, and I did originally. The problem was I then moved that portion of the copy down below my reference to ASs when I re-wrote the piece. I can see that it sounds as if ASs can load mines as that part now comes before my reference to putting an MLE in Townsville.

My bad.

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 14
RE: ARs - 5/17/2005 11:33:58 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline
-Definately- get damaged ships from PH attack to the WestCoast as soon as feasible. Think of West Coast 4 attitional Pearl Harbors, all working happily to repair your blown-up fleet.

Don't forget Vancouver ("the fourth" port on the West Coast). It's also a large port, and just because it doesn't have a specific yard, it's still fine at repairing things. Yes, it's slower, so I don't put BBs there, but it does just fine CAs and smaller.

Using these additional ports will get you back into action in no time. I got pasted by the mega-attack (now fixed, not complaining, we didn't know it was a bug). Lots of stuff damaged (including 4 BBs sunk). But it's mid-February now, and I've got my first round of CA/CLs are already repaired (yes even down to 0 Sys Dmg). Have several BBs still being worked on, but they should be ready "soon" (editted by censors).

But if you leave all that crap in PH, it's going to be -very- overloaded. There -is- a war on by the way! If you thot PH strike was bad, just wait 'til you really get to fighting.

For me, anything with more than 15 sys dmg goes to the West Coast (urgency permitting). PH will be very busy just keeping up with your normal wartime repairs. And lets face it, as Allies, you can normally afford to be without a 15 sys dmg ship for month. Unless it's really urgent, I also set ships returning from West coast to "cruise", because I like them in the best condition possible (obviously, you have to consider this as you plan on how you can be without the ship).

And don't forget about all your "minor" yards.

Good ports elsewhere:

===

Townsville - A little close to bomber range from Rabaul. But if it's safe enough, it's usually a size 9 port.

Brisbane - Everybody loves the beach.

Sydney - You have a 50 repair yard here. Very nice.

Melborne - Don't forget about him. Has smaller yard (25?), but not much farther than Sydney.

Noumea - Nice port, but a little close to Japanese bombers or raids by KB.

Aukland - Everybody forgets about the Kiwis. Don't let their dock workers be slouches. This is great for minor reparis on your ships in SWPac that are DDs or smaller. If anything, can take the overflow from Noumea/Bris, or use it as a sub repair base.

===

Columbo/Tricom - Both are large ports. Columbo has the yard so is better. Keep some CAP up tho, your Aunt Betty will crash the party (also be vary of raids by KB).

Diamond Harbor / Chadpur - Both reasonable ports. You have to feel pretty secure in you CAP to put something here, becaus you're definately in LBA range. But if you need to put something here, these ports are good size.

Bombay - Everybody forgets Bombay.

Karachi - Another port where the dock-workers tend to have 3-day work weeks.

-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me


(in reply to Tristanjohn)
Post #: 15
RE: ARs - 5/18/2005 3:53:25 AM   
Tristanjohn


Posts: 3027
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Daly City CA USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

-Definately- get damaged ships from PH attack to the WestCoast as soon as feasible. Think of West Coast 4 attitional Pearl Harbors, all working happily to repair your blown-up fleet.

Don't forget Vancouver ("the fourth" port on the West Coast). It's also a large port, and just because it doesn't have a specific yard, it's still fine at repairing things. Yes, it's slower, so I don't put BBs there, but it does just fine CAs and smaller.

Using these additional ports will get you back into action in no time. I got pasted by the mega-attack (now fixed, not complaining, we didn't know it was a bug). Lots of stuff damaged (including 4 BBs sunk). But it's mid-February now, and I've got my first round of CA/CLs are already repaired (yes even down to 0 Sys Dmg). Have several BBs still being worked on, but they should be ready "soon" (editted by censors).

But if you leave all that crap in PH, it's going to be -very- overloaded. There -is- a war on by the way! If you thot PH strike was bad, just wait 'til you really get to fighting.

For me, anything with more than 15 sys dmg goes to the West Coast (urgency permitting). PH will be very busy just keeping up with your normal wartime repairs. And lets face it, as Allies, you can normally afford to be without a 15 sys dmg ship for month. Unless it's really urgent, I also set ships returning from West coast to "cruise", because I like them in the best condition possible (obviously, you have to consider this as you plan on how you can be without the ship).

And don't forget about all your "minor" yards.

Good ports elsewhere:

===

Townsville - A little close to bomber range from Rabaul. But if it's safe enough, it's usually a size 9 port.

Brisbane - Everybody loves the beach.

Sydney - You have a 50 repair yard here. Very nice.

Melborne - Don't forget about him. Has smaller yard (25?), but not much farther than Sydney.

Noumea - Nice port, but a little close to Japanese bombers or raids by KB.

Aukland - Everybody forgets about the Kiwis. Don't let their dock workers be slouches. This is great for minor reparis on your ships in SWPac that are DDs or smaller. If anything, can take the overflow from Noumea/Bris, or use it as a sub repair base.

===

Columbo/Tricom - Both are large ports. Columbo has the yard so is better. Keep some CAP up tho, your Aunt Betty will crash the party (also be vary of raids by KB).

Diamond Harbor / Chadpur - Both reasonable ports. You have to feel pretty secure in you CAP to put something here, becaus you're definately in LBA range. But if you need to put something here, these ports are good size.

Bombay - Everybody forgets Bombay.

Karachi - Another port where the dock-workers tend to have 3-day work weeks.

-F-


Wow. Sounds to me like you have lots of damaged ships.

I try to keep mine out of harm's way until the odds are right. A fleet in being can go a long way toward "keeping the Jap in play" if you know what I mean. Plus, I escort all of my convoys, so that's a lot of destroyers committed to duty right there.

I have used Melbourne, but only for incidental items on account of how small the yards are over in Sydney--a few sub upgrades, an AK or two, that's about it. Haven't need to go near Auckland. Brisbane's my mine port along with Noumea now in SWPAC. Townsville has served as a sub base on occasion, but mostly it's for bringing destroyers back on line (I've a cocuple of ADs there and two ARs). I've another two ARs and an AS and AD up in Darwin.

You can't forget Bombay. There are four very small yards in India/Ceylon and I've made constant use of all of mine there.

As for Brisbane being close to bomber range at Port Moresby: you're not supposed to lose PM in the first place. If the Japanese are foolish enough to stuff a lot of good stuff over there, though, so much the better for the Allies in the long run. It all dies, and that's that much less the Japs have to use for their defense elsewhere later on. If they don't stuff it full of good stuff then simply take it back. If KB's hanging around to deny you that opportunity, then that's better still. My view on that is I don't care where KB is as long as I know where it is. So if it's busy defending PM there's a golden opportunity open somewhere in the Central Pacific, right? Make the Jap pay one way or the other. Remember, he only has so many tokens.




(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 16
RE: ARs - 5/18/2005 5:36:53 AM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline
I dunno how much a "lot" of damgaed ships are. I have about 3-4 ships in every yard. Of course, "damaged" is a relative term. To me "damaged" is anything over 10. If it goes over 10, it's usually on it's way to port. But unless it's -really- necessary, I don't want my CVs out with 15 sys damage from just sailing around, then get into a scrap, and have the first two bombs close the flight deck.

-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me


(in reply to Tristanjohn)
Post #: 17
RE: ARs - 5/18/2005 8:50:46 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

No problem... Then you're right: according to the manual (14.2.1 again), submarines need to be either in a size 9 or 10 port or a port with an MLE to load mines.


So an ML don't need an MLE, but a mine SS does? That sounds screwy.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 18
RE: ARs - 5/18/2005 9:02:41 AM   
Tristanjohn


Posts: 3027
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Daly City CA USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

No problem... Then you're right: according to the manual (14.2.1 again), submarines need to be either in a size 9 or 10 port or a port with an MLE to load mines.


So an ML don't need an MLE, but a mine SS does? That sounds screwy.



All ships (MLs and DMs) and boats (submarines) load under the same ruling.

Clear?



(in reply to Charles2222)
Post #: 19
RE: ARs - 5/18/2005 10:54:36 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

No problem... Then you're right: according to the manual (14.2.1 again), submarines need to be either in a size 9 or 10 port or a port with an MLE to load mines.


So an ML don't need an MLE, but a mine SS does? That sounds screwy.



All ships (MLs and DMs) and boats (submarines) load under the same ruling.

Clear?





So either Terminus must be wrong about the rule, or it's been changed (or the game isn't programmed to the rules anyway). How do I know? IJ has no MLE's starting off, correct? And yet I've resupplied mines to quite a few ML's at Sasebo (I think Sasebo is a 10 level port).


< Message edited by Charles_22 -- 5/18/2005 10:55:32 AM >

(in reply to Tristanjohn)
Post #: 20
RE: ARs - 5/18/2005 1:27:18 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

So either Terminus must be wrong about the rule, or it's been changed (or the game isn't programmed to the rules anyway). How do I know? IJ has no MLE's starting off, correct? And yet I've resupplied mines to quite a few ML's at Sasebo (I think Sasebo is a 10 level port).



It is actually quite simple rule. To load mines you need either size 9 or bigger port or MLE.

Cheers,

M.S.



(in reply to Charles2222)
Post #: 21
RE: ARs - 5/18/2005 2:49:53 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
I just read that quote poorly. I thought he made a repetition of a phrase in the sentence, therefore looking as though he was saying that subs needed a 9 or 10 port 'with' an MLE, as though a 9 or 10 wouldn't provide them without the MLE. My mistake.

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 22
RE: ARs - 5/18/2005 3:03:36 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

I just read that quote poorly. I thought he made a repetition of a phrase in the sentence, therefore looking as though he was saying that subs needed a 9 or 10 port 'with' an MLE, as though a 9 or 10 wouldn't provide them without the MLE. My mistake.


Heh..these rules are some of the most confusing ones in wargame ever too. They are very easy to interprete wrongly. I think there might have been some sort of supply requirement too with MLE, but not sure.

With other ships, generally (what I've managed to squeeze out of Mr.Frag):

4x AR per port stack, they help to repair all ships/subs/vessels by each increasing port size by 1, no limitation by number served.

2xAS/AD/AGP per port stack. Each increases port size for appropriate class by 2. AS also reloads torpedoes into subs. AD also reloads torpedoes into DDs (not sure about CLs). AGP reloads PT-boats.

Now, no-one (AFAIK) has been able truly find if more than 2 AS/AD/AGP per port helps, since these ships can serve only 4 vessels per ship. For example, do 3 AS repair and reload 12 subs ? Or is it limited to 2 AS serving 8 subs and others are excess ?? Go figure !

Cheers,

M.S.


(in reply to Charles2222)
Post #: 23
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> ARs Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.828