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RE: Curiousity killed the cat!

 
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[Poll]

Curiousity killed the cat!


I would be willing to pay $200
  19% (55)
I would be willing to pay $150
  11% (34)
I would be willing to pay $100
  26% (75)
Without a Computer Player, I'm not really interested
  36% (104)
I'm not interested at all
  6% (18)


Total Votes : 286


(last vote on : 6/22/2005 12:07:37 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 5/17/2005 7:11:06 PM   
Mike Solli


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

...and by my opinion that $200 is WAAAAAAAY to much for a computer game. ANY computer game.



I'll pay the $200. I've waited my whole life for this game. If you guys are willing to make it more realistic, I'm all for it.


(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 31
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 5/17/2005 7:29:41 PM   
Burzmali

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Logistics is the number one thing on my list.

As you think through it, you come to the conclusion that by having logistics, it also entails expanding the concept of what a base actually is, how ships are handled, air mission frequency/repair, etc.




Then would that include a full-feature supply assistant? Because if I lose Wake because I didn't notice I had forgotten to ship them toilet paper and they surrender due to low morale, there will be hell to pay

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 32
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 5/18/2005 2:06:38 PM   
Culiacan Mexico

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag
quote:

A question on expanded scope… what specifically do you have in mind?


Logistics is the number one thing on my list.

As you think through it, you come to the conclusion that by having logistics, it also entails expanding the concept of what a base actually is, how ships are handled, air mission frequency/repair, etc.
Improved logistics would correct many of the areas where unhistorical play can creep in.

Just my opinion on the ‘feel’ of the game.

Having only played from the Japanese side that they game allows too much flexibility to the Japanese. I don’t doubt that considerable time was spent on the Japanese Order of Battle, but the Japanese don’t seem constricted very much in transports or merchant shipping early in the game. I usually have large amounts of shipping sitting in Japanese ports doing nothing, because nothing needs to be done. I am not sure historically that was the case. Expanding on the game as you suggest might correct that.

I definately would be interested in where you would take WitP2.


_____________________________

"If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lig

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 33
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 5/18/2005 2:21:16 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag
Logistics is the number one thing on my list.

As you think through it, you come to the conclusion that by having logistics, it also entails expanding the concept of what a base actually is, how ships are handled, air mission frequency/repair, etc.


I agree 100% with Raymond!

Here is my old (and many times repeated - since I bever give up hope) WitP wish <SIGH>...

I know that it is very late in WitP developement but I still have hope that the below issues will be looked upon because geography and supply played huge role in how and where TFs were located in the Pacific (i.e. not every bay can be made into major harbour and not every ship one side posseses can be placed in such bay)...


#1 Ammo replenishment should be depending on port size

In current WitP we can replenish ammo of almost any ship in any port size.

IMHO it is impossible to believe that some lowly port size 3 would have, for example, 16" shells for BBs.

This should be altered to reflect historical situation and something simple could be implemented (numbers are just for example):

port size 1-3 : ammo for all guns up to 5"
port size 4-6 : ammo for all guns up to 8"
port size 7-9 : ammo for all guns


#2 Number of ships anchored should be depending on port size

In current WitP we can anchor as many ships as we want in any port size that is larger than 3.

IMHO this should be altered and something simple could be implemented (numbers are just for example):

port size 3 : MAX number of anchored ships = 10
port size 4 : MAX number of anchored ships = 15
port size 5 : MAX number of anchored ships = 25
port size 6 : MAX number of anchored ships = 50
port size 7 : MAX number of anchored ships = 75
port size 8 : MAX number of anchored ships = 100
port size 9 : MAX number of anchored ships = 150
port size 10 : MAX number of anchored ships = 200


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



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(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 34
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 5/18/2005 2:31:10 PM   
ctid98


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Status: offline
Until we see the scope of what will be included its hard to say how much I would pay. That doesn't mean though that I'm not interested, maybe you should of had another option like "show me what its got and I'll decide then" of course then we'll have more polling options that a Florida election ballot!



Ideally though, and I don't want this to turn into a wish list thread, if it had better land combat and surface combat intercept with multiple contacts in the night, morning and afternoon phases I could part with some money.....

_____________________________

---------------------
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(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 35
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 5/18/2005 3:21:23 PM   
SpitfireIX


Posts: 264
Joined: 1/9/2003
From: Fort Wayne IN USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

I'm really amazed by the fact the some people manage to get angry in a game forum


a) Some people obviously didn't learn any manners growing up.

b) Some people get off on making other people feel small.

c) Other people react to both of the above. (wrong action but tough not to justify).

c) causes more from the a) & b) types which in turn causes more folks to go the c) path ... once started, it is impossible to stop.


Frag, maybe you need to start threatening to suspend, or even ban, people in groups a) and b) and, if necessary, group c) (guilty). That's what happens to rude posters in other forums in which I participate, and I have to say the level of discourse and civility is generally a lot higher in those.

_____________________________

"I know Japanese. He is very bad. And tricky. But we Americans too smart. We catch him and give him hell."

--Benny Sablan, crewman, USS Enterprise 12/7/41

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 36
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 5/18/2005 3:58:45 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
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From: Reading, England
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Or maybe Sin Bin them for a week or so for starters?

(in reply to SpitfireIX)
Post #: 37
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/16/2005 8:47:22 PM   
Juliuspluvius


Posts: 82
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From: Spain
Status: offline
The problem is tested the new capacities vs computer but if it's a evolution from WITP i can buy the game by 150$, no more

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(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 38
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/16/2005 9:45:35 PM   
Sonny

 

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To paraphrase an old song - it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that BLING. Aside from more accurately portraying the Pacific war it has got to have a better interface. Far fewer clicks/turn. More sorting options (like being able to sort the commanders by their role suitability).

And as long as we are kicking things around here, it sure would be nice to see not only a better interface, but different presentation. After looking at the game screens from UV to present it is getting tiring.

How much better will it be? When going from the AUTO-SUPPLY of UV to WitP we were told that, yes, it worked fine -yada yada yada. But what did we really get?

I voted for $100 but if the game were a great improvement over WitP I could sell my child and get the $150 version.


P.S. If you need volunteers for coding this monster count me in.

_____________________________

Quote from Snigbert -

"If you mess with the historical accuracy, you're going to have ahistorical outcomes."

"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
ahistorical outcomes. "

(in reply to Juliuspluvius)
Post #: 39
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/17/2005 1:48:51 AM   
medicff

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 9/11/2004
From: WPB, Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

A question on expanded scope… what specifically do you have in mind?


Logistics is the number one thing on my list.

As you think through it, you come to the conclusion that by having logistics, it also entails expanding the concept of what a base actually is, how ships are handled, air mission frequency/repair, etc.




Yes, logistics is the key for slowing the game down. Costing too much to move 4 divsions on a minor campaign so that you are unable to continue other campaigns. Making it difficult to maintain supply to sustain a 400 plane bomber raids to decimate a base. Rotate more of the squadrons and ships to rest and repair between sorties. GREAT IDEA! Worth every penny if we could only agree on the details.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 40
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/17/2005 3:44:21 AM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
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From: Kansas City, MO
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I chose the max when this was asked..., but in truth it would depend on what "improvements" were made. I'd love to see the "my supply is all walking away in the wrong direction" problem controlled or done away with. Some change in the "air basing restrictions" to make them more reflective of aircraft size and servicing needs would be a must. If the "open ended" Japanese production is maintained, then some more realistic cost (in time) for re-tooling would be nice. More correct replacement numbers for aircraft on both sides is a must. A more realistic air-to-air combat system is a necessity.

If the changes are in the direction of making the contest more historical, I'll spend my money on it. If it's just a lot of "Fan-boys wanted this or that" stuff, then it won't be worth it.

(in reply to medicff)
Post #: 41
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/17/2005 4:54:52 AM   
Freedom205

 

Posts: 274
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From: Michigan USA
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Damn, I missed another good one. Work gets in the way of everything fun and interesting

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 42
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/17/2005 5:49:54 AM   
wworld7


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I change my vote. If logistics could be improved I would go for $200.00. I like this period of warfare and hated Paci War, so an improved WITP could find a way into my budget.

Flipper

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 43
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/17/2005 2:01:34 PM   
Thayne

 

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If I may . . .

As somebody who has some experience in marketing, I would suggest not paying much attention to the results of such a poll. People will habitually report a willingness to spend that far exceeds what they are willing to spend.

Also, the concept of "improvements" generates problems because, as we see over and over again in the forums, what one person considers an "improvement" another considers just another example of how WitP is more fantasy than fact. So, can you come up with "improvements" that people will generally like.

In order to satisfy the largest number of customers with the greatest number of diverse views and opinions, I would suggest a "game options" screen that allows users themselves to adjust the settings.

For example:

Zero bonus: +0 to +10 (reduces at the rate of 1 per month)
Japanese Pilot Replacement Pool (pilots per month)
IJN: +0 to +50
IJA: +0 to +100
Atoll Troop Capacity: 2000 to unlimited
Atoll Airplane Capacity: 100 to unlimited
China Defense Advantage: +0 to (some reasonable upper limit) -- or some similar method of restricting Japan's capability to conquer China).
Logistics:
- Restricted Port Rearming: On/Off
- 4-Engine Bomber Supply Drain: On/Off
- Base Rearmament Restrictions (note: this section lists all 10 port sizes and has a setting for the size of the gun that can be stationed there).

This option would allow people with different views, whomever can find a player who shares those views, to play under the rules and restrictions they like. This should increase the capability to market the game to a more diverse audience.

With these options, players can belittle each other over the various design changes, rather than blame Matrix Games for the decisions they make (though they would still likely find other things to complain about, such as, "Why does Option X exist but not Option Y?")

There would, of course, be "default values" for those who do not want to waste their time debating such issues and simply want to play the game out of the box.


Now, if I could put in a plug for my most favored improvement:

A more realistic map with less distortion.

Where a map that actually represents a sphere is out of the question, I would argue for an increased map scale (1 hex = 30 miles).

Plus, as the map gets further from the equator, the hex scale changes. A central band of hexes uses the 1 hex = 30 mile method. Further from the equator it becomes 1 hex = 29 miles, then 28 miles, and so on. Such a method would significantly reduce map-edge distortions without the complex math necessary to actually represent a sphere.

This would introduce one distortion: "Why is it that a unit can control a 30-mile hex at the equator but only a 15-mile hex at the top and bottom of the map?" Which would affect combat mostly in Manchuria and Russia (in the Aleutians and Kurile Islands, the fact that one is on an island will put a natural barrier on this) -- which would have its influence on only a limited part of the war.

Such a change would not actually change the complexity of the game, therefore would not increase the amount of time it took to play the game. However, it would (I think) make the game much more interesting -- enough that I would be willing to offer dollars.

(in reply to wworld7)
Post #: 44
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/17/2005 2:19:52 PM   
Thayne

 

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Oh . . . and one more thing.

An option that allows both (all) players to work on their moves at the same time. The allied player would put his orders into an allied player database; the Japanese player's moves would be stored in a Japanese player's database. The program would then resolve the turn by looking at the orders in both sets of tables.

The Japan player resolves the turn, sends the results to the allied player, BEFORE he starts working on his own orders.

(in reply to Thayne)
Post #: 45
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/17/2005 5:29:35 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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I've voted 150 bucks, but I would have a close look at the 'new features' list and probably wait for some forum feedback before deciding how much it is really worth - with all dream features included I'd be willing to pay more. Would prefer an AI because I have to take into consideration that with two little kids PBEM won't be an option (unless I find an opponent who accepts slow and highly irregular turn output), but I understand that a decent AI is a pipe dream. So I would consider the game an investment into the future when the kids reach hotseat age.

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Post #: 46
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/17/2005 6:07:24 PM   
Big B

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thayne

If I may . . .


In order to satisfy the largest number of customers with the greatest number of diverse views and opinions, I would suggest a "game options" screen that allows users themselves to adjust the settings.

For example:

Zero bonus: +0 to +10 (reduces at the rate of 1 per month)
Japanese Pilot Replacement Pool (pilots per month)
IJN: +0 to +50
IJA: +0 to +100
Atoll Troop Capacity: 2000 to unlimited
Atoll Airplane Capacity: 100 to unlimited
China Defense Advantage: +0 to (some reasonable upper limit) -- or some similar method of restricting Japan's capability to conquer China).
Logistics:
- Restricted Port Rearming: On/Off
- 4-Engine Bomber Supply Drain: On/Off
- Base Rearmament Restrictions (note: this section lists all 10 port sizes and has a setting for the size of the gun that can be stationed there).

This option would allow people with different views, whomever can find a player who shares those views, to play under the rules and restrictions they like. This should increase the capability to market the game to a more diverse audience.



Well thought out and brilliant,

Now If I can add my two cents, I have been like everyone else with my opinions of what should be changed...but I must say - with the scenario editor you can customize it to just about what ever you like. The game is brilliant, even if you don't agree with the standard default values.

I agree with the posters who say here "if anything needs a little more attention - it's LOGISTICS.
1) The 'port size vs. capabilities' issue is one worthy of explorering - and can't be somply addressed right now with the editor.
2) '500 battalion Death Stars' is another such issue that can't simply be addresseed with the editor.
AND my pet peeve
3) Land Based Supply Movement -PLEASE give us a way to direct where supply goes once it's on land. We can pick it up with ships and take it to a port - but once it's unloaded we loose all control over it, and rediculous things occur - such as - hexes with abandoned bases continually getting precious supply you can't spare..etc.

Otherwise, to me precious little needs to be done with the game that you can't do already.

And oh yah, I'd pay $150 for a serious improvement that was hot-seat/ PBEM only



(in reply to Thayne)
Post #: 47
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/17/2005 8:10:24 PM   
Hornblower


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Tossed in my 2 cents for $100

(in reply to Big B)
Post #: 48
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/17/2005 8:11:26 PM   
Ron Saueracker


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From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpitfireIX


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

I'm really amazed by the fact the some people manage to get angry in a game forum


a) Some people obviously didn't learn any manners growing up.

b) Some people get off on making other people feel small.

c) Other people react to both of the above. (wrong action but tough not to justify).

c) causes more from the a) & b) types which in turn causes more folks to go the c) path ... once started, it is impossible to stop.


Frag, maybe you need to start threatening to suspend, or even ban, people in groups a) and b) and, if necessary, group c) (guilty). That's what happens to rude posters in other forums in which I participate, and I have to say the level of discourse and civility is generally a lot higher in those.


What requires censorship? Ideas or behavior? Are opposing ideas and difference of opinion regarded as unpalatable behavior which is then in turn open to censordhip? I missed the whole thing (darn) but I'd like to know why any anything short of foul language and porn pics need be censored.


_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to SpitfireIX)
Post #: 49
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/17/2005 8:21:24 PM   
Bradley7735


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

I missed the whole thing (darn) but I'd like to know why any anything short of foul language and porn pics need be censored.



I'd like to see more porn pics. LST needs to remove the lettering from his sig.

_____________________________

The older I get, the better I was.

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 50
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/18/2005 10:51:25 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


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That's not porn in my sig - it's art .

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Post #: 51
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/18/2005 3:03:48 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
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From: Edgewater, MD
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Having discovered the joys of PBEm, I want to change my vote....


(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)
Post #: 52
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/18/2005 4:39:10 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
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quote:

What requires censorship? Ideas or behavior? Are opposing ideas and difference of opinion regarded as unpalatable behavior which is then in turn open to censordhip? I missed the whole thing (darn) but I'd like to know why any anything short of foul language and porn pics need be censored.


Quite simple Ron, read the forum rules:

1) I will control myself
2) I will not cause trouble to others

3) I am at least 14 years old
4) Admin has the right to modify/delete my messages
5) Matrix Games reserves the rights to modify this agreement at any time

1 & 2 are generally completely ignored by users

3 sometimes I wonder how many people lied about their age

You will notice there is no #6 I am entitled to free speach as governed under the constitution

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 53
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/18/2005 7:23:41 PM   
Ron Saueracker


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Looks like porn is A-OK!! Pasternaski! Surfs Up!

_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 54
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/18/2005 7:50:17 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
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From: Purgatory
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quote:

Looks like porn is A-OK!! Pasternaski! Surfs Up!


That falls in the "I will not cause trouble to others" last I checked.


(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 55
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/18/2005 9:22:16 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

Looks like porn is A-OK!! Pasternaski! Surfs Up!


That falls in the "I will not cause trouble to others" last I checked.




Oh!


_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 56
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/19/2005 3:40:59 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

Looks like porn is A-OK!! Pasternaski! Surfs Up!


That falls in the "I will not cause trouble to others" last I checked.




Oh!



Especially if it's a Redhead!

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 57
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/19/2005 5:10:24 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
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I feel a Platoonist Pic coming on!!!

_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 58
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/19/2005 5:20:07 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

I feel a Platoonist Pic coming on!!!



I hope so, I lost the Redhead he did for me!

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 59
RE: Curiousity killed the cat! - 6/19/2005 5:20:59 AM   
2Stepper


Posts: 948
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: North Burbs of Omaha
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

A question on expanded scope… what specifically do you have in mind?


Logistics is the number one thing on my list.

As you think through it, you come to the conclusion that by having logistics, it also entails expanding the concept of what a base actually is, how ships are handled, air mission frequency/repair, etc.




Any thoughts to adaptions/improvements of the weather model? I like where we're at, but there's always room for a tweek or two. As its my profession Frag with a specialization on tropical forecasting the thought of making a contribution is a welcome one. Just tossing the carrot out there. If not, I can respect that. Look forward to hearing more in the future either way.



_____________________________


"Send in the Infantry. Tanks cost money... the dead cost nothing..." :)

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 60
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