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Defender Retreat results - 5/27/2005 3:03:10 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		am I missing something here, when you get a Defender retreat result, shouldn't the defender have to retreat, or if it can't retreat, take extra damage ?

I just caught the HG panzer unit, and encircled it, and got a 6 giveing me a D2DR result, the unit has 3 steps, and lost 2 steps and stayed in place, shouldn't it of been destroyed ?

then I attack a 4 unit hex, couldn't get the full encirclement, but left it a path out, rolled a 5 and 6 , the 5 being a D1 and the 6 being a DR, one unit out of 4 took a step loss, and they then stayed in place

what good is a DR roll


I have seen at least 3 times now where a unit that could not retreat, doesnt take any damage, that don't make sense

or am I missing something

HARD_Sarge


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RE: Defender Retreat results - 5/27/2005 3:08:24 PM   
JSS

 

Posts: 781
Joined: 10/15/2003
Status: offline 		Couple of quick points (without pulling out the manual and checking):

1. Can't retreat causing extra step loss is a % thing. Substandard Units have higher chance of this happening than Standard Units. Believe the rule is Elite Units don't take the loss. Isolated Units should always take the extra loss.

2. When two dice are used in the combat, only the first one determines whether an R result applies.

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
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RE: Defender Retreat results - 5/27/2005 3:20:10 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		thanks for the reply

the 2nd one I can understand, I think (so a roll of D1 and DR, the DR don't count, but a roll of DR and D1 then the retreat would count ?)

for the first one, there may be something with the elite unit then, the HG Panzer is encircled, it was a double result on one die (the unit is "dead" tomorrow, along with 3 other regs, but I got to wait till tomorrow)

guess I am used to the idea if a unit gets a retreat result, it is suppost to retreat (I know some games would be set up, so you could take a step loss instead of the retreat if that was your choice)

HARD_Sarge


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RE: Defender Retreat results - 5/27/2005 4:01:41 PM   
pterrok


Posts: 79
Joined: 11/13/2003
From: Shreveport, LA USA
Status: offline 		For non-retreat, substandard units take an extra hit 100%, regular units 50% and elite units 30% of the time. This occurs if the unit CAN'T retreat or if it retreats into enemy ZOC and not onto another friendly unit.

Leaving the gap open and not having the unit retreat sounds to me like a terrain issue. Roads are IGNORED during retreats and so if a unit can't move into a given type of terrain it won't move--and the rugged hills and mountains are no-gos for lots of units!

So you have to be careful when moving along roads in those terrains since you can get IN via roads, but you may find it hard to get OUT if interdicted or flanked or if you get forced to retreat!


--Edit--Had said foothills when I meant rugged hills!

< Message edited by pterrok -- 5/27/2005 5:44:19 PM >

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Post #: 4
This unit doesn't take DR!!! - 5/27/2005 4:26:49 PM   
JSS

 

Posts: 781
Joined: 10/15/2003
Status: offline 		Sarge,

Here's a quick look at a unit that doesn't understand the meaning of DR...




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 5
RE: This unit doesn't take DR!!! - 5/27/2005 4:28:12 PM   
JSS

 

Posts: 781
Joined: 10/15/2003
Status: offline 		...and another that never did!




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 6
RE: This unit doesn't take DR!!! - 5/27/2005 5:38:04 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Ooh, where's that from JSS?

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 7
RE: This unit doesn't take DR!!! - 5/27/2005 6:26:48 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		trying to butter me up ?

show a shot of the 8th Marines

:)

A/1/8 here or guess I should say was

HARD_Sarge


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Post #: 8
RE: This unit doesn't take DR!!! - 5/27/2005 6:33:14 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		you got me confused

I went back to look at the map to see if I could figure time/place

11th Marines Res (the Res throws me)

but the 11th Marines is a Arty unit

off the top of my head, the 1st though 9th Marines were the Grunts in the first 3 Divs, with the 10th/11th and 12th Marines being the Div Arty

?????

HARD_Sarge


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RE: This unit doesn't take DR!!! - 5/27/2005 6:34:52 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		off topic and all

I was in the 8th Marines, my Dad was in the 10th Marines

HARD_Sarge


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Post #: 10
RE: This unit doesn't take DR!!! - 5/28/2005 12:23:17 AM   
JSS

 

Posts: 781
Joined: 10/15/2003
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Ooh, where's that from JSS?

Regards,

- Erik


Erik,

The shots are from the Battles in Italy version of the MacArthur battle (the BIN version is available in the free download section at Run5). Conversion to Italy engine is in testing phase now... will add an alternate campaign scenario (where the Japanese player is allowed to place defenders on turn 1) before release.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

I went back to look at the map to see if I could figure time/place

11th Marines Res (the Res throws me)

but the 11th Marines is a Arty unit

off the top of my head, the 1st though 9th Marines were the Grunts in the first 3 Divs, with the 10th/11th and 12th Marines being the Div Arty



HARD_Sarge,

The abreviation that's a little hard to read is Reg for Regiment. Will double tap my sources but I'm fairly confident the unit designations are good for the regiments (used official campaign histories for the Pacific and USMC official website history sections). The recon and tank battalions I'm not as confident that the unit numbers are accurate.

EDIT: I see what you're refering to on the 11th Marines.

Will also give the 8th Marines a look to see where they can be added

JSS




< Message edited by JSS -- 5/28/2005 1:32:27 AM >

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Post #: 11
RE: This unit doesn't take DR!!! - 5/28/2005 1:44:24 AM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		The 11th Marine Regiment was formed in January 1918 at Quantico, Va., as a light artillery regiment. The regiment went to France as an infantry unit, providing a machine gun company and a guard company. Decommissioned and reactivated twice between world wars, the regiment again served as infantry in Nicaragua. Reformed in 1940 as a full-fledged artillery unit, the 11th Marines joined the 1st Marine Division

you might have found some pre war info on the unit, but WWII area, it was a Arty Reg (along with the 10th and 12th)

hehe, Mac War ?, I was wondering, I couldn't find any battles were the 1st and the 4th fought togeather

HARD_Sarge


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RE: This unit doesn't take DR!!! - 5/28/2005 2:30:57 AM   
JSS

 

Posts: 781
Joined: 10/15/2003
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

hehe, Mac War ?, I was wondering, I couldn't find any battles were the 1st and the 4th fought togeather

HARD_Sarge



I'm going to change the Regiment Designation from 11th to 1st as it should be.

The scenario isn't based on an actual battle... Thought these two divisions looked good fighting next to each other

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Post #: 13
RE: This unit doesn't take DR!!! - 5/28/2005 9:10:41 AM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Roger, understand

just thought I would do some background work and try and figure out what the battle was

LOL for me, any battle that the Marines are in and I can play it, is a good game :)

HARD_Sarge


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