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WiTP killed my machine! - 6/13/2005 3:15:14 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		Well, maybe not exactly. Maybe it would be more accurate to say that it was me who killed it while trying to find a workaround to a hardware conflict created by WiTP. And hopefully it isn't actually dead, but that's what I'm here to find out about from one of you tech guys.

We have two machines. One satellite modem. One game of WiTP. Unfortunately the same machine has to take care of the game and the internet service. This makes my wife cranky, since the time when I am gaming is the time she would most like to be able to get on the net. This is the hardware conflict: two users wanting to use the same machine at the same time.

So I get a router, and a new ethernet card for the second machine. Got the router set up and the satellite plugged into it, that is all working for the good machine, the game machine, "my" machine. However, the ethernet card seems to have been the last straw for the second machine, the old machine, "her" machine.

Full disclosure: when I was installing the driver for the card, I got a message saying it did not find one of the files it was looking for. I told it to go ahead and finish installing the driver anyway, figuring hey, what's the worst thing that could happen, the card doesn't work, right?

Wrong. The machine now will not fully boot up. It gets past asking for my networking password, the desktop comes up, the hourglass is spinning, it's almost finished....

....then it reboots itself. It does this over and over and over....

So. How do I get back to where I was before? There are some files on the hard drive that I need to copy to a flash card, and after that I can start from scratch if I need to, wipe out everything and install some minimal things that my wife likes to use. Windows 98, Pentium II, 233 mHz (I think), 256 + 256 RAM.

Wife is being nice about it so far, but this could change. Any advice and or kind words would be much appreciated.


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RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/13/2005 3:21:03 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I'd go ahead and start from scratch. If you try to repair the installation as is, you'll most likely end up just digging a deeper hole for yourself.

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RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/13/2005 3:27:31 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		Gotta get those data files copied first.

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RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/13/2005 3:34:36 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		One way would be to purchase an inexpensive small hard drive and use it to put a new system install on it. Then you could go look at your old hard drive, get files and what not.

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RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/13/2005 3:38:26 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
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From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

Gotta get those data files copied first.


Well, yeah, obviously!

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RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/13/2005 3:39:49 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		F8 key will let you safe boot without network drivers and you can gut out those bad ones.

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RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/13/2005 3:59:22 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		Just what I was looking for, thanks Frag!

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RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/14/2005 4:10:49 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		Was able to start up in safe mode and kill the problem devices. Got my document files copied to a flash stick (256 mb, smaller than a Bic lighter--wasn't so many years ago I remember being impressed by a hard drive that size).

Now, without taking this machine to Mos Isley and having its memory erased, how do I get rid of everything that is on this hard drive and start over? Is that even a good idea?

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RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/14/2005 4:51:48 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Umm, why start over? Just install the right driver and get on with life.

Reloading a machine from scratch and setting everything up once again is such a pain in the arse.

If it's toasted to that point ... I feel for you ... but from what you posted, it does not sound like a writeoff.

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Post #: 9
RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/14/2005 4:59:54 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		It's been squirrelly for some months; for example, I have not been able successfully to run ScanDisk or defrag for several months because there is something going on that keeps causing these programs to restart; they never finish running. Whatever this is does not show up in Task Manager, is not fixed by Registry Mechanic, and is not caused by something that SpyBot Search and Destroy can find. In the meantime performance gets worse and worse, and I'm about out of ideas.

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RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/14/2005 5:04:41 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Hmm, try this as an eval before giving up completely. If it can't defrag, you are toast for sure.

http://www.raxco.com/products/perfectdisk2k/


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Post #: 11
RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/14/2005 5:07:29 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		Would this work with Windows 98? Only mentions 2000 and XP....

...says 2000 or XP is minimum requirement.

I just found this in an article:

quote:

On some Windows 98 and ME systems, depending on what utilities you have installed, you may find that Disk Defragmenter keeps stopping and starting over, when you try to run it in normal boot mode. This is generally due to utilities or background programs that are changing the disk contents and messing it up. The key symptom is when the progress bar goes back to zero percent. If you have this problem, bottom line, I've found the easiest fix is to boot your computer to Windows safe mode, run the defragmenter in safe mode, and then switch back to normal boot.



Didn't know this was possible. I'll give it a try.

< Message edited by irrelevant -- 6/14/2005 5:14:36 PM >

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RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/14/2005 5:27:07 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Oh, you are windows 98?

ignore ... doubt they have a 98 version.

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Post #: 13
RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/15/2005 4:56:26 AM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		Defragging in Safe Mode. Now at 97%, 4 hours later....

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RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/15/2005 5:01:38 AM   
2Stepper


Posts: 948
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: North Burbs of Omaha
Status: offline 		Actually that autoreboot mess sounded hauntingly familar... aka the "Blaster" worm. Sister got hit with that creature and took her almost a week to clean up the box. Otherwise I'd have to agree fully with Frag. Elminate everything before starting over. Saves on sanity too, because when the sanity levels start fraying its time to toss in the towel. Luck to ya.

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RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/15/2005 5:29:41 AM   
Zorfwaddle

 

Posts: 263
Joined: 3/16/2001
From: Pensacola, FL
Status: offline 		1. Ensure you have the W98 install CD
2. Get all the data/information you want saved off the hard drive
3. Set your machine via the BIOS to boot from floppy and then from CDROM then HD
4. Get a bootable W98 disk from www.bootdisk.com
5. Check this disk to see if it has format.com and scandisk.exe on it; if it doesnt, find someone who has W98 and copy those onto that floppy. Make sure it is the same version of Windows (really, trust me)
6. Boot the machine from the floppy
7. At the C:> prompt type format c: ; it will ask you "Are you sure?" etc
8. After it formats the drive, run scansidk on the HD; scandisk c:
9. Take the floppy out, make sure the install disk is in the CDROM, reboot
10. If the Windows installer does not come up, reboot with the floppy and go to the CD drive and type setup

Hopefully this helps. Step by step stuff can be found here

http://www.windows98.windowsreinstall.com/

George

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Post #: 16
RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/16/2005 1:16:39 AM   
Griswel

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 5/23/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Umm, why start over? Just install the right driver and get on with life.

Reloading a machine from scratch and setting everything up once again is such a pain in the arse.


He did say Windows 98. Starting over is just a part of life under Win98.

Look, I hate MicroSoft as much as the next guy, but your life will be better when you switch to XP.


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Post #: 17
RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/17/2005 9:01:19 AM   
Cmdrcain


Posts: 1161
Joined: 8/21/2000
From: Rebuilding FLA, Busy Repairing!
Status: offline 		If do a complete re-format and re-install, be sure have a firewall running before connecting to internet, you will need to right off patch up win98 with all security patchs to close holes and last I noted, the time before an bot scanning for vulnerable systems is at most 10 mins or even less and then your possiable going get auto hacked, worms dropped in etc through OS holes, unless have that firewall setup first...

Any fresh install of an OS is these days vulnerable till critical patchs applied..



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RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/17/2005 3:20:55 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		The router has a firewall built in. Can't get past the original problem though. When the ethernet card is installed, the machine does not fully boot, but rather reboots over and over. With the card and the drivers removed, it runs fine. I have tried putting the card in three different slots with the same results each time. I spoke with a tekkie at the local computer clinic, he said based on the symptoms the mother board might possibly be bad. He also suggested trying a USB network port instead of the ethernet card. Does anyone have any experience with this? How does the speed compare with an NIC? Does Windows 98 even support this?

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RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/17/2005 4:04:38 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

The router has a firewall built in. Can't get past the original problem though. When the ethernet card is installed, the machine does not fully boot, but rather reboots over and over. With the card and the drivers removed, it runs fine. I have tried putting the card in three different slots with the same results each time. I spoke with a tekkie at the local computer clinic, he said based on the symptoms the mother board might possibly be bad. He also suggested trying a USB network port instead of the ethernet card. Does anyone have any experience with this? How does the speed compare with an NIC? Does Windows 98 even support this?


Windows 98 doesn't, Windows 98 Second Edition does. (assuming your motherboard has functional USB - beware that systems built in that timeframe are pre USB 1.0 hardware standard).

I'm still betting drivers are no good or you have a conflict with existing stuff. What else you got in the box? Windows98 is not too bright when it comes to sorting out hardware conflicts and boards that old generally need to have things like serial and parallel ports set via jumpers. (ie: you may not have an IRQ available for the network card). These days, everything is managed by the motherboard and operating system so this having to set by hand concept doesn't really exist anymore.

I once had 200 machines go out the door with dual serial port cards ... they bought network cards from someone else and installed them ... everytime someone moved their mouse, the network dropped ... (nic on the same irq as serial 2).

If your machines bios supports it, disable parallel/serial/game ports and try it again.

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RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/17/2005 5:12:35 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline 		Irrelevant, yes, I have some experience with this. When I switched to ADSL my internet provider gave to me an USB modem (for free). My M$ partition was Win98 SE. Then reboots started... I did not know why. Well, then it was the bloody USB modem fault The ***** was sucking many ressources of the machine. Conclusion: I had to buy a router (RealTek ethernet card). So be careful and ask before.

I think you should switch to WinXP/2000 though. Good luck.

P.S.:
periodic "format c:"'s are a must in Windows. They are the best medicine, the only method which can get rid of weird "problems"

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Post #: 21
RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/17/2005 5:37:09 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

What else you got in the box?


There's a modem, that can easily go. Some kind of video/sound card (obviously I don't have the machine here). Nothing else extra really in the way of hardware. It does have two USB ports, I have used them for downloading pics from a digital camera and for transferring files to/from a flash stick, so I presume there's drivers installed for those things. The serial port was used for DCC ages ago, who knows what that has left in its wake. There are lots of games that I have tried to uninstall with partial success, which still have folders and uninstall icons, but that say they cannot be uninstalled for one reason or another. I am using Registry Mechanic, which finds many errors that it will not repair without me registering the software, which I would gladly do if I could get on the net with that machine!

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RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/18/2005 3:32:53 AM   
Cmdrcain


Posts: 1161
Joined: 8/21/2000
From: Rebuilding FLA, Busy Repairing!
Status: offline 		I'm not so impressed with a tech sayng your Mobo might be bad, if it were bad/going bad you would have problems with it in other ways, as you say it only occurs as a problem when the ethernet is installed its either the ethernet card (it could be whats bad) or bad drivers, it also could be your mobo and that particular brand of ethernet card don't like each other..

I'd suspect the card.



I recall long back where One Video card wouldn't work but a different did, it was the card.

The card that didn't work worked ok in a different system... so the motherboard in some way
didn't like the first card...

You tried returning the ehthernet card for another or a different brand?



< Message edited by Cmdrcain -- 6/18/2005 3:36:46 AM >

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RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/20/2005 3:55:50 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		Well, after hours of fiddling around with the ethernet card and sundry drivers and software, I finally got the thing up and running. The turning point seemed to be when I removed the now useless modem and its drivers. Last night Mrs. irrelevant was on line, sitting across from me, while I was working on my turn. I bored her with tales of my gaming prowess while she kept me up to date on breaking news and celebrity gossip, and we discussed menu possibilities for unspecified future meals.

Life is good.....



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RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/20/2005 4:18:24 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

Life is good.....



You do of course realise that just because you made that post, your computer is now busily calculating the optimum time to crash the HD, irretrievably destroying every bit of data you own, right?

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RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/20/2005 4:39:26 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		Hah! That computer will never die for the simple reason that its data files are now fully backed up!

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RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/22/2005 5:17:12 AM   
Cmdrcain


Posts: 1161
Joined: 8/21/2000
From: Rebuilding FLA, Busy Repairing!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

Well, after hours of fiddling around with the ethernet card and sundry drivers and software, I finally got the thing up and running. The turning point seemed to be when I removed the now useless modem and its drivers. Last night Mrs. irrelevant was on line, sitting across from me, while I was working on my turn. I bored her with tales of my gaming prowess while she kept me up to date on breaking news and celebrity gossip, and we discussed menu possibilities for unspecified future meals.

Life is good.....





This reminds me, when I once updated the Toolbar provided by my ISP, it happened to install their darn "accelerator" which was for use by dialups (a caching thig or such) anyway I couldn't connect to internet with my email etc..

After checking it as it was the newest installed thing and internet connection was ok until then I noted it had accelerator installed I removed that and internet worked ok (cable)

So you have to watch some updates they can change or add things that can muckup stuff, Accelerators for dialups not cable users but it was installed by default(sent ISP an letter complaining) instead f something to choose or not when upgraded..

Point?

You still had a modem and modem drivers installed but i presume moved to dsl/cable, in that case the pc was still trying connect through modem, using drivers etc and so the ethernet wasn't connecting proper

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Post #: 27
RE: WiTP killed my machine! - 6/22/2005 7:20:29 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		Now that you mention it, that's probably what happened here; I installed MindSpring's fancyschmancy toolbar about two years ago and that is when I first started having problems with that machine (scandisk and defrag not completing). Move to satellite about 6 months later, and then bought the new machine soon after, so I never got p1ssed off enough to figure it out until now.

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