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Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 5:41:11 AM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline 		That it takes 10 minutes just to move one unit, one must love Gary Grisby games to enjoy it.

Any comments here or rebuttal for his statement?
Post #: 1
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 5:42:30 AM   
ngcsu

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 6/30/2005
Status: offline 		I didn't like the fact it was damn 5 minutes of hundreds of figures moving after I pressed next turn. I thought something screwed up so I just shut down.

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 2
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 5:45:07 AM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline 		No kidding 5 minutes for the computer to generate the next turn???? Hrmmm, might have to back off on this one now till I hear more. That's too long.

(in reply to ngcsu)
Post #: 3
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 6:04:27 AM   
Reiryc

 

Posts: 4991
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline 		Got a link for where he says this at the wargamer?

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Post #: 4
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 6:48:52 AM   
SlapBone


Posts: 269
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

That it takes 10 minutes just to move one unit, one must love Gary Grisby games to enjoy it.

Any comments here or rebuttal for his statement?


Read the whole thread. He was just making a general comment about mechanics in wargames.

http://www.wargamer.com/forums/tm.asp?m=131231

< Message edited by SlapBone -- 6/30/2005 6:49:17 AM >

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Post #: 5
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 6:58:49 AM   
TheHellPatrol


Posts: 1588
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		He didn't even know he was missing out on the "tactical battles" in hexwar until someone pointed it out. This guy is a "professional" who is a longtime supporter of HPS PNZR CMPNS ergo 10 minutes is nothing. 10 minutes...Pffft...he is either getting too old or Ravinhood just got off the phone with the Ex and is looking to vent some frustration

< Message edited by TheHellPatrol -- 6/30/2005 6:59:56 AM >

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Post #: 6
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 7:03:18 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Not sure what exactly is being reported here. Unit movement is part of your turn planning. You click on a unit and tell it where to move. It immediately "moves' to where you have told it to, but this is your plan. When you end your orders, the units then actually start moving, simultaneously across the map, according to initiative, terrain, weather, etc. as described previously.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 7
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 7:27:16 AM   
Tophat

 

Posts: 460
Joined: 8/6/2002
From: Cleveland,Ohio
Status: offline

Hmmmn,
Clearly the man has never tried WitP then! This is a turn based strategic game not an RTS clickfest

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Post #: 8
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 7:39:09 AM   
TheHellPatrol


Posts: 1588
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		If, again "IF", that was the real Jim Cobb posting those comments (as truncated as they were) i could only assume he was inebriated or under the weather. It just doesn't make sense... the incoherent totally off the mark supposed observations of actual gameplay...why even bother typing if you don't know how to configure the options? ie: quick battles. He is/was too much of a professional to let such sloppy writing go unattended.

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A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.
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Post #: 9
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 8:27:04 AM   
dpstafford


Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

That it takes 10 minutes just to move one unit, one must love Gary Grisby games to enjoy it.

Any comments here or rebuttal for his statement?

Interesting discussion. But as far as I know Grigsby had nothing to do with CoG.

As for me, I'm the type of player who wouldn't use the auto-convoy option in WITP even if it worked. Running supplies, fuel and oil all over the Pacific is one of life's simple pleasures!

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 10
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 9:59:39 AM   
Duderonomy


Posts: 20
Joined: 7/2/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline 		I went over to the wargamer forums to take a look at what he said. His post clearly states that the 10 minute term comment is not specifically aimed at CoG. It also appears he just got a copy of the game and hadn't read the manual thoroughly. Not trying to defend him, just trying to clear up the 10 minute turn comment as it got me very worried about CoG.

(in reply to TheHellPatrol)
Post #: 11
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 10:18:54 AM   
Tophat

 

Posts: 460
Joined: 8/6/2002
From: Cleveland,Ohio
Status: offline

I read that whole thread as well and frankly it didn't sound very clear at all. I'm certainly no "fanboy" having foundout about this game a week ago,but a fellow who has just gotten the game really shouldn't be taken as an authority on it.

(in reply to Duderonomy)
Post #: 12
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 10:27:29 AM   
Duderonomy


Posts: 20
Joined: 7/2/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline 		I didn't get the impression he considered himself an expert on it. And at the risk of being argumentative, he stated:

"BTW, the sentence about mechanics didn't necessarily speak to CoG."

Not crystal clear, I agree, but the clear implication (at least to me) was that the "10 minute" comment didn't refer to CoG.

I was merely posting for the benefit of others who, like myself, were concerned about the "10 minute" reference.

(in reply to Tophat)
Post #: 13
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 2:04:37 PM   
Hanal

 

Posts: 2312
Joined: 11/1/2003
Status: offline 		Well I had posted over there about what was written, and if his comments were not actually about CoG then it went completely over my head, and re-reading them did not clear it up for me, especially the last post he wrote which he again mentions the 10 minutes to move 1 unit...but no matter, it's the 30th so let's get those downloads rolling....

< Message edited by J P Falcon -- 6/30/2005 3:53:38 PM >

(in reply to Duderonomy)
Post #: 14
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 3:22:19 PM   
Duderonomy


Posts: 20
Joined: 7/2/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline 		Agreed. Fingers crossed that there are no delays!

(in reply to Hanal)
Post #: 15
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 4:11:10 PM   
Tophat

 

Posts: 460
Joined: 8/6/2002
From: Cleveland,Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Duderonomy

I didn't get the impression he considered himself an expert on it. And at the risk of being argumentative, he stated:

"BTW, the sentence about mechanics didn't necessarily speak to CoG."

Not crystal clear, I agree, but the clear implication (at least to me) was that the "10 minute" comment didn't refer to CoG.

I was merely posting for the benefit of others who, like myself, were concerned about the "10 minute" reference.


Sorry but after reading it again I can't/don't see anyother context than CoG being referenced. The whole crux of the debate is this supposed 10 min move time of a single Unit in CoG.Again i'm sorry but waiting for WitP to execute all a turns orders also takes time and allows the player an overview as to what is going on. Taking abit of time in a turn based game for all nations orders to execute: production,diplomacy,movement and combat doesn't surprise me at all.

This is the worrisome statement Bismarck makes that has the some of the ducks quaking:

quote:

ORIGINAL: kellysheroes

unless you are saying it takes 10 minutes just to move 1 unit.



That's what I meant.

And there's a "c" in Bismarck, Kerryheloes.

there is another pertinent part of the discussion as well:

J.P Falcon asks for clarification:
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bismarck

quote:

ORIGINAL: kellysheroes

unless you are saying it takes 10 minutes just to move 1 unit.



That's what I meant.

And there's a "c" in Bismarck, Kerryheloes.



Is it possible to elaborate a bit on what you mean? Is there an undue delay in the load time from strategic to tactical or a lag?....why does it take 10 minutes to move one unit?

thanks

Then finally we get from bismarck:
quote:

A. I was commeenting on when lengthy comments on interface and mechanics were appropriate.

B. As I clearly stated, I'm talking about moving one unit


Hmmn,
my use of the quote feature seems to have been poor,however the gist gets through so i'm not going to bother rewriting this post.
As for the question on move time.I'll let you know after I download the game at noon today......that is if i can pull myself away long enough to make a post!

< Message edited by Tophat -- 6/30/2005 4:30:45 PM >

(in reply to Duderonomy)
Post #: 16
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 5:24:01 PM   
Baron Hendrik


Posts: 51
Joined: 5/26/2005
Status: offline 		I really have no idea what he is talking about. I even dont know what he means with "one unit". A division/army/corps on the map? Or a division on the hexfield? Both dont take 10min to move...

(in reply to Tophat)
Post #: 17
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 5:31:33 PM   
SlapBone


Posts: 269
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Baron Hendrik

I really have no idea what he is talking about. I even dont know what he means with "one unit". A division/army/corps on the map? Or a division on the hexfield? Both dont take 10min to move...


Coherency seems to be lacking in this thread and the one questioned.

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Post #: 18
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 5:43:38 PM   
SLTxDarkknight


Posts: 73
Joined: 6/4/2005
Status: offline 		Yes its all a tad confusing at best. Movement of units are instant , the time waiting for other nations to "think" are on par or even faster than any of the TW series. You guys are in for a treat that will continue to evolve with excellent support.

< Message edited by SLTxDarkknight -- 6/30/2005 5:44:54 PM >

(in reply to SlapBone)
Post #: 19
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 5:48:27 PM   
SlapBone


Posts: 269
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SLTxDarkknight

Yes its all a tad confusing at best. Movement of units are instant , the time waiting for other nations to "think" are on par or even faster than any of the TW series. You guys are in for a treat that will continue to evolve with excellent support.


Thanks,this does actually claer things up.

In fact, the most confusing part of this whole row, was why the CoG beta-testers would stay silent about movement problems and "excessive" computer "think" times.

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Post #: 20
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 6:27:06 PM   
donkuchi19


Posts: 1062
Joined: 3/14/2004
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline 		I have a 1.5 MHZ P4 processor on my desktop. Total 'think' time each turn seems to about 30 - 45 seconds. The turn execution phase where you see the units moving on the strategic map can take anywhere between 1 and 10 minutes depending on how much is going on. The battles can take longer when you use hex war but that is your choice and only when you are involved. (you can choose to fight a quick battle if you want which goes much quicker) The computer controlled battles happen almost instantly. The game actually moves pretty quickly especially compared to WITP (I play that on my laptop so the turns can be finished in less than 20 minutes).

(in reply to SlapBone)
Post #: 21
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 7:07:46 PM   
bluemonday

 

Posts: 233
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHellPatrol

If, again "IF", that was the real Jim Cobb posting those comments


It clearly is the real one. Who else would it be?

(in reply to TheHellPatrol)
Post #: 22
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 7:27:11 PM   
Moltke71


Posts: 1253
Joined: 9/23/2000
Status: offline 		Trying to start a flame war?

What I explicitly said was:

"OK, so you don't mind using 10 minutes to collapse or expand units to make a move? You must love Grigsby games.

BTW, the sentence about mechanics didn't necessarily speak to CoG. "

The context was in answer to a guy who said he didn't need to know about interface and mechanics in a review.

Jim Cobb


(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 23
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 7:32:39 PM   
SlapBone


Posts: 269
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bismarck

Trying to start a flame war?

What I explicitly said was:

"OK, so you don't mind using 10 minutes to collapse or expand units to make a move? You must love Grigsby games.

BTW, the sentence about mechanics didn't necessarily speak to CoG. "

The context was in answer to a guy who said he didn't need to know about interface and mechanics in a review.

Jim Cobb




Thanks, the horse's mouth speaks.

I couldn't get the context through the thread, but I was almost sure that you weren't saying that.

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Post #: 24
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 7:33:14 PM   
Moltke71


Posts: 1253
Joined: 9/23/2000
Status: offline 		Moving a single unit in CoG is easy. Is that clear enough for you guys?

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Post #: 25
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 7:36:24 PM   
SlapBone


Posts: 269
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bismarck

Moving a single unit in CoG is easy. Is that clear enough for you guys?




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Post #: 26
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 7:48:07 PM   
Moltke71


Posts: 1253
Joined: 9/23/2000
Status: offline 		I admit the context got confused. I'm involved in a discussion about what should go into a review so, when a guy said he didn't care about interface, etc, I tryed to bring him out. Unfortunately, it happened on the CoG thread.

I'm reviewing it for Combatsim.com and am digging into it. Very deep game; you're not going to just sit down and start clicking. It compares well SO FAR with the Paradox gaames and that's a plus in my book.

(in reply to SlapBone)
Post #: 27
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 7:48:20 PM   
SLTxDarkknight


Posts: 73
Joined: 6/4/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for the clarification I am sure noone intended anything other than to receive clarification from such a well respected member of the wargaming community.

(in reply to SlapBone)
Post #: 28
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 7:48:58 PM   
Guderon

 

Posts: 132
Joined: 7/1/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlapBone

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bismarck

Moving a single unit in CoG is easy. Is that clear enough for you guys?




Oh sure, SlapBone, it's easy for you to be in a good mood and laughing - you're downloading! I'm still waiting for the link....

(in reply to SlapBone)
Post #: 29
RE: Bismarck at wargamer says: - 6/30/2005 9:51:42 PM   
Tophat

 

Posts: 460
Joined: 8/6/2002
From: Cleveland,Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bismarck

Trying to start a flame war?

What I explicitly said was:

"OK, so you don't mind using 10 minutes to collapse or expand units to make a move? You must love Grigsby games.

BTW, the sentence about mechanics didn't necessarily speak to CoG. "

The context was in answer to a guy who said he didn't need to know about interface and mechanics in a review.

Jim Cobb




No,I was dumbfounded that a reviewer would post this type of confused nonsense about a game just due out the next day.

(in reply to Moltke71)
Post #: 30
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