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AAReport - Ralegh as Spain

 
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AAReport - Ralegh as Spain - 6/30/2005 3:49:50 AM   
Ralegh


Posts: 1557
Joined: 2/1/2005
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Before I start - one apology: due to technical problems with my PC, I failed to take many screenshots of this game: people did say they would like more screenie - particualrly of battles - and I have less here. Sorry - my bad.

Spain, 1805 Campaign, Napoleon level

Situation: We start allied with France and at war with Britain, Sweden, Austria and Russia.
Threat: beware a situation where France either surrenders to some of the allies, or accepts their surrender - that leaves them just at war with Spain! This is particularly bad if it is Austria - they will march their army over! Initial strategy: Help France. Knock Austria out of the war. Try to make friends with Prussia and Turkey. If we can ever get out of the war with Russia and Sweden, do so.

Political goals: We start with Naples, Sicily and Calabria (totalling 4 glory per turn). Gibraltar is worth 3 and Portugal 2. Other glory provinces are: Gascony (Fr), Ireland, N. Ireland (B), and the neutral countries of Sardiania, Morrocco, Oran, Algiers, and Tunisia. So lets try to get Gibraltar and Portugal now. If we ever get out of all the wars, we can think about all the African ones. Perhaps get something nice and trade it to France for Gascony?

Economy overview: although the provinces aren't very advanced, Spain has a great mix of resources, including great wine supplies (Tuscany) and excellent horses (Andelusia), as well as excellent sources of cotton, wool, iron and timber.

Forces: Spain starts with 2 army counters, and units for one decent army and one militia force if you rob from some of the city garrisons. Although the leaders aren't stellar, they are OK. Navy is 60 ships. Diplomats are poor.

Economy: save up to upgrade the barracks in Madrid to level 5, so we can build a corps counter. Develop banks, farms and factories. Spain is quite feudal, so there will be levies coming on. Note that the protectorates in Italy produce really good units (average more over 5, unlike native Spanish units), in an even mix of cavalry and infantry. Set a "reinforce to" command so those units donft just sit around.

Initial moves:
Send privateers to the eastern med where Britain wont find them
Send merchant to Ligurrian Sea
Instruct navy to support a French move against Nelson's fleet [in a support move, we only move into the attack if another allied fleet has already moved into the area]
Put main forces into a good army with all leaders, and send them towards Switzerland - we want them in Styria, so if Austria surrenders it may be to us. Lets conquer Venice on the way - it is an awesome country.
Construct a militia army and send it against Gibraltar

Diplomacy: Try to make some treaties to get additional colonies and, if possible, recruit some help from Turkey and/or Prussia for the alliance. [Note: Neither of them will be willing to attack Austria usually. Prussia might take on Sweden, though, and Turkey might take on Russiac]


In Sept 1805, the French fleet bravely sailed out from Cadiz against Nelson long before the Spanish fleet (which wished to help) could get into position. Nelson was victorious with 53 British ships sunk and 44 French ships - France must have had the wind guage to do so well. Whittling down the ships in Nelson's fleet is a very good start for the alliance. The British moved to Gibraltar, and the Spanish fleet took their position off Cadiz.

In Oct 1805, the Spanish fleet was instructed to blockade Gibraltar, intending to call Villaneuvre's fleet as reinforcements if they refused to come into the sea area. Sure enough, the British came out, we got the wind guage, and Villaneuvre reinforced with his remaining 38 ships. Unluckily for us, some of the stronger ships in the French fleet only made it to the rout area and didn't actually engage the enemy. In a close fought battle, Nelson broke the back of the allied navies, sinking 35 ships for the loss of only 22.

Meanwhile in Europe, France won huge battles against Austria and Russia, including a 40 glory batttle at Linz, as well as 14 and 8 glory battles, all in the same month!

Our militia army beseiged Gibraltar, and the main army besieged Venice. A few months went by. We got into Venice, just as Austria surrendered to France. Oh no - thatfs what we were afraid of! The main army immediately moves to Styria to beseige the Austrian capital.

Meanwhile, Britain has gained control of Portugal as its protectorate, giving it a decent army quite close to my capital. This is a disaster - no way my militia army can beat them, and I don't want to withdraw the main army, for fear the Austrians will follow me, and I will spend the next several years defending the peninsula. Lets set a French rally point for Madrid - they can defend me against Britain, while I fight Austria (who they aren't at war with anymore). Fortunately, the Portugese army marches to France, so I cancel the rally point to allow my ally to do as he wishes.

_____________________________

HTH
Steve/Ralegh
Post #: 1
RE: AAReport - Ralegh as Spain - 6/30/2005 3:50:38 AM   
Ralegh


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Joined: 2/1/2005
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I convince Prussia to help me against Austria - the Austrians must have annoyed them somehow, and the main Spanish army remains beseiging the Austrian capital. We get lucky - my militia army actually takes Gibraltar. I had them 'charging the walls', so sheer numbers could have their chance, and we managed to swarm it under. Austria surrenders to Prussia and I - I will take the provinces of Carnoila, Venetia and Illyria, cutting them off from the med, and giving me a land border with Turkey. I also take their 2nd and 4th armies (the biggest two) for 15 months - I have an idea!

I pull the main spanish army back to take portugal, and deal with a remnant of British troops who have just retreated into Spain from France. The two Austrian armies on loan march in Russia - lets try to give them some incentive to make a cease fire. I put them into Volhenyia, hoping to conquer the province and create a supply source. A Russian army attacks, and we comprehensively beat them, capturing one of their artillery (who start the long walk to Spain since they can't join an army-on-loan).

Unfortunately, it is winter, and Volhenyia has a very low forage value - this was a mistake. 3/4 of the Austrians melt away, while doing very little damage to the garrison. The siege continues for about 5 months before I abandon it in disgust, ordering the Austrians to march on Moscva, disregarding the casulties. A minor Russian attack causes all the units to surrender (divisions less than 4000 men shouldn't be taken into quick combat!) - oh well, they weren't Spanish. [Note: I kept offering cease fires, and Russia kept refusing, so the strategy failed anyway.]

Meanwhile, the armies in Spain beat up a few small forces, taking some Russian and British prisoners, and we conquer Portugal and Elvas. - Oh I like owning the whole peninsula! If only we still had a navy worth a darn. The corps counter arrives, as do spring levies, and we reorganise a little, putting all the cav, horse artillery, and cav leaders into the corps, and the corps inside the main army. We will keep adding cav to this corps as it comes on the board. We sent Madrid to build a guard unit - it will take over a year! I should have built some more factories there - oh well, issue that command too.

_____________________________

HTH
Steve/Ralegh

(in reply to Ralegh)
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RE: AAReport - Ralegh as Spain - 6/30/2005 3:53:09 AM   
Ralegh


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Britain lands yet another army in Spain, and marches on Madrid, joined by some Russian forces that have been floating around France. The picture below shows what you don't want to see if you are attacking something: lots of guns fortifications spread out evenly with enemy units between them - this is NOT the way you want to attack Madrid. Notice how the rivers form a sort of square around the British units you can see in the picture - after they break, I crush them up against the rivers - none of these guys will be going home.

[Comment on AI: A human player in this situation would pull back to different ground on this map, simply refusing to advance against the fortifications, and hoping the enemy would follow them (if not, get the map edge and then retreat for a bloodless withdrawal). We will need to teach the AI that tactic. In this case, they advanced into battle, and the guns of the forts plus my artillery disordered them all in short order - and then the cav charges started.]





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

HTH
Steve/Ralegh

(in reply to Ralegh)
Post #: 3
RE: AAReport - Ralegh as Spain - 6/30/2005 3:54:22 AM   
Ralegh


Posts: 1557
Joined: 2/1/2005
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Meanwhile, we are trading some of our resources to all the neutrals (our ally Prussia, as well as Austria and Turkey). This will improve our relationship, while supplying some textiles, cash and extra food for us. Spain trading for food might sound funny, but it lets me shift workers from farms to other things - and we have LOTS of excess horses/iron/wool/cotton. Interestingly, we are consuming all the wine we produce - lets build more farms in the wine provinces.

My concern at this point is that I am firmly in second place - France has 100 more glory than me, and I am not closing the gap. I would rather not betray my ally - but I start cheering their enemies on, and watching their engagement levels very carefully. I settle in to build culture to try to boost my glory rate, and monitor procedings against France.

Oh no - Russian forces have taken Venetia! They have left a Cossack, and moved on. We move the main army to engage the Russian army in Switzerland, and the militia army to retake Venetia. There are a couple of small battles for Spain, and we move the main army to besiege Swedish Thuringia.

The coalition against France reforms, with Austria and Prussia declaring war on them - this looks good. Oh no! Austria declared war on me again - I wonder if Sweden bribed them? The Spanish army moves on Styria again (and the militia army goes home). The French defeat the Austrians (who have some Russian help) in the field, and we beseige their capital. Massive Prussian forces beseige Paris. I couldn't help my ally with that if I wanted to: I am not at war with (my ally Prussia). It is so heart rending when one ally attacks another.

Austria surrenders to France and I; and France surrenders to Britain and Prussia. That will put me in the lead! It leaves France and I at war with Russia and Sweden (as we have been all game), and everyone else at peace. I take alliance, Austrian promising to defend me etc as the terms.

A new British army has landed in Spain! Wow! We race the main army back to the peninsula. We reach Madrid only a couple of months after the British - there is a French army sharing the area with them? Huh? Oh, they aren't at war any more! I missed that: I wonder what happened? Oh yeah! Anyway, we beat up the British invasion force [note1: they didn't bring any artillery, only one unit of cav, only one leader - even if it is Wellington. I outnumber then by half again, have 4 leaders, 6 cav divisions as well as 3 arty divisions. Note2: the Spanish army has had its morale raised by high morale reinforcements, and by successful battles - the army of 1808 is a much higher quality force than earlier.] The fortifications aren't a deciding factor this time: the hex map is more generous to the British - but I treat the whole battle as one long pursuit phase (which you can do when you outnumber the by so much). We close and use arty and infantry volleys to disorder their units and then charge with cav.


_____________________________

HTH
Steve/Ralegh

(in reply to Ralegh)
Post #: 4
RE: AAReport - Ralegh as Spain - 6/30/2005 4:25:02 AM   
Ralegh


Posts: 1557
Joined: 2/1/2005
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The battle is sufficient to push us over the top - Spain wins. Interestingly, the "All of Europe is alarmed" message never went off - presumably because Prussia and Turkey were so close behind.

This game wasn't as satisfying for me - after we lost the naval battles in 1805, there was little chance to hurt Britain (they carefully waited to recover their morale before sending the next expeditionary force), and I couldn't get Britain, Sweden or Russia to make peace. I'd like more ability in the game to negotiate with people you are at war with - I might have been willing to surrender with light terms (or accept very light terms for their surrender) - or pay something for a cease fire - at the moment, you can't offer terms to someone you are at war with: its cease fire, or limited/unconditional surrender. The wars I started the game with dominated play for Spain, and I didn't feel like I had much choice. I will see what we can get included in the service pack!

[BTW - in previous games I have shown that Spain or Sweden can win a naval war with Britain - its just that (a) its unlikely and (b) in this game we failed.]




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HTH
Steve/Ralegh

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RE: AAReport - Ralegh as Spain - 6/30/2005 4:32:53 AM   
Ralegh


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Joined: 2/1/2005
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One correction / explanation: it sounds in the text as if I thought I could conquer Venetia, and therefore own it. I did think that. It wasn't true, however: it starts as a protectorate, not as a conquered. I should have ignored the seige on Venetia - all it achieved was to give me a few more VPs in the Austrian surrender terms. I didn't own it until they gave it to me in the peace terms. I think. Maybe.

_____________________________

HTH
Steve/Ralegh

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Post #: 6
RE: AAReport - Ralegh as Spain - 6/30/2005 4:40:36 AM   
sol_invictus


Posts: 1961
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Kentucky
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Sounds great; I knew Spain could be a fun game. Maybe the diplomatic resolution of wars needs a tweak so that the situation of having your ally make peace while you remain at war doesn't continue. This seems to happen often in the AARs. Maybe in your situation, when France makes peace, Spain is given the option to also accept peace with an appropriate compensation compared to their performance. If Spain doesn't like the offer, then the war would continue between her and Austria. Seems to easy for a loser to buy off the senior partner of an alliance, thus leaving the junior partner holding the bag. The peace offer needs to be comprehensive for all involved alliance members of the winning side. Would something like this be workable?

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RE: AAReport - Ralegh as Spain - 6/30/2005 5:27:41 AM   
Ralegh


Posts: 1557
Joined: 2/1/2005
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Hmm - thats an interesting idea. I was thinking about thisfrom the other end (giving the surrendering party incentives to include others). I'll raise it with Eric and see how it goes.

Thanks for the idea!

_____________________________

HTH
Steve/Ralegh

(in reply to sol_invictus)
Post #: 8
RE: AAReport - Ralegh as Spain - 6/30/2005 6:04:24 AM   
sol_invictus


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From: Kentucky
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Thank you for helping to test and refine what appears to be a soon to be classic.

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RE: AAReport - Ralegh as Spain - 6/30/2005 6:22:30 AM   
Arditi


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The current scenario...to where a nation can make peace with one nation and not the other is much like EIA. I prefer this situation until we can play the game for a few weeks and discuss changes at that time. In addition, for the Napoleonic historians out there, peace did not always include the allies as well. Is this correct? Also, if memory serves, the borders of nations were not entirely inviolable in PRACTICE...I believe there were many situations of this being reality of the time period. Any help from some amatuer historians of the time period?

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RE: AAReport - Ralegh as Spain - 6/30/2005 6:54:49 AM   
sol_invictus


Posts: 1961
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Kentucky
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I agree, it is certainly difficult to make sensible suggestions for a game that you haven't played yet; however that hasn't stopped me from mouthing off yet.

I do think that in a war between opposing coalitions, if a single nation decides to call it quits, it should have to call quits against the entire opposing coalition. This of course in no way affects the other nations of the surrendering nation's former coalition. They may decide to carry on the struggle; much like Russia continued the war in 1805 even after Austria surrendered. Austria and Spain didn't remain at war though. If a nation is defeated, it should be unable to continue any military actions. It is simply a problem in how to implement this in the game engine. I can think of no example of a nation surrendering to one nation but continuing the war against the victor's ally in this era. Frederick made some separate peaces in his wars like you suggest, so it isn't unheard of. EU handled this by determining who the instigator of the war was and that country was the coalition leader for that war and made the peace terms. If you made a separate peace and left your ally holding the bag, you suffered serious diplomatic penalties.

The French did violate Prussian territory in the 1805 campaign and this caused much ill feeling in Prussia. This is different than a nation voluntarily granting two powers access to its territory as their personal combat arena. Should be very definate reasons why a nation wouldn't want to do this in the game. Is it noon yet?



< Message edited by Arinvald -- 6/30/2005 7:00:10 AM >

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RE: AAReport - Ralegh as Spain - 6/30/2005 8:04:55 AM   
TheHellPatrol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

I agree, it is certainly difficult to make sensible suggestions for a game that you haven't played yet; however that hasn't stopped me from mouthing off yet.


That's one thing that this forum has always shown me that separates it from others...cognitive reasoning.
Cogito Ergo Sum

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A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.
Henry David Thoreau


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RE: AAReport - Ralegh as Spain - 6/30/2005 6:32:53 PM   
Ozie

 

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From: Finland
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Good AAR. Keep them coming.

The war/peace system seems to present a problem which was already apparent in your earlier Prussia AAR. Im a real veteran of EU and I think that system is far from perfect. But atleast there is a small penalty for not fighting "to the end" with your allies.

These problems don't seem to be large compared to the scope of CoG but since we don't have the game atleast we CAN discuss of them. :)

Is it possible for one country of the alliance to negotiate peace for everyone? Are the peace deals always between just two countries?

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