Infrastructure?

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Infrastructure? - 7/5/2005 12:25:05 AM

LaVean

Posts: 46
Joined: 7/1/2005
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Have you noticed there are virtually no infrastructure changes between scenarios...does this means that there was none or that the designers do not believe in their importance.

An example would be...in response to the blockade millions were spent on the canal system...the Brest Nantes canal was specifically built so that naval supplies could be taken down the loire to Brest without exposing them to blockading ships.

But lets look at infrastructure in the game...

Why would one spend anything on courts? What is the advantage in making a level 5 court instead of a level 1...both produce diplomats and there is no indication that the diplomats quality goes up with the court...

Why would one build a lot of Barracks when a Barrack can build more than one unit at a time...just have one and pile your guys into one.

Why is wood seperate from Ag when raising Ag raise wood. Is this a special emphasis? If so why can't one emphasize other items?

Docks...all produce the same ships just a difference in speed? What is the difference in level 1 quality docks vs level 10...Why not a system in docks like there is in Barracks? ie the better the dock the better unit produced?

Farms...is this a reflection of better farms or more farms? There is no evidence that there were more farms in 1805 than there were in 1792...there is not a huge difference in technology...the arguement on farms would be to abstract farms and make their production go up as means to move goods got better...ie. build canals and roads.

The way that the economy and technology is now it is so abstract that it probably should be removed altogether...

The other option would be to spend as much effort developing an economic model as detailed as the very good military one.

Post #: 1

RE: Infrastructure? - 7/5/2005 12:51:18 AM

Franz von G

Posts: 36
Joined: 7/1/2005
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it seems to me that reading the manual is too hard for someone

Page 59 "Courts allow the production of diplomat units. The level of Courts within a province determines the quality of the diplomats
produced there. Courts also add to available diplomatic
actions (7 levels of courts provides +1 action; 10 levels, +2 actions). Courts also lower the chance of rebellion units appearing in a province."

page 59 "Docks reduce the amount of time required to build new ships in a province.
Every two levels of Docks reduce the building time of a ship by one month.
Docks also heal damaged ships in the province in which they are located. Every month, each level of Docks has an 80% chance of rebuilding one strength-factor in a damaged ship located in its province." (and the docks level increase the trade level of the sea)

page 58 "Barracks increase morale of units created in the province.
Each level of Barracks increases the morale of units created here by .25.
Barracks are a pre-requisite to building certain types of units"

page 59:If a province has at least 5 levels of both Factories and Barracks
then the build-time for cavalry and infantry units in this province is decreased by 1 month. If it has either 8 or 9 levels in both, then the build-time is decreased by 2 months. If it has 10 levels then 3 months.

(in reply to LaVean)

Post #: 2

RE: Infrastructure? - 7/5/2005 12:54:56 AM

bluemonday

Posts: 233
Joined: 6/20/2005
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Have you even read the manual? Most of the things you post are incorrect:

quote:

Why would one spend anything on courts? What is the advantage in making a level 5 court instead of a level 1...both produce diplomats and there is no indication that the diplomats quality goes up with the court...

p. 59 indicates the quality of diplomats goes up with court level, and certain levels give additional diplomatic actions.

quote:

Why would one build a lot of Barracks when a Barrack can build more than one unit at a time...just have one and pile your guys into one.

Barracks level has direct impact on the types of units you can produce.

quote:

What is the difference in level 1 quality docks vs level 10

Ship repair.

So you need to read more.

quote:

The way that the economy and technology is now it is so abstract that it probably should be removed altogether...

Completely disagree. There is nothing wrong with an abstract economic model. I quite like it. I am not interested in micromanaging all of your canned goods.

You may prefer to play Victoria.

(in reply to LaVean)

Post #: 3

RE: Infrastructure? - 7/5/2005 12:55:50 AM

bluemonday

Posts: 233
Joined: 6/20/2005
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Franz beat me to it, but I'll leave my post. Good work Franz, you were even more thorough than I was.

(in reply to bluemonday)

Post #: 4

RE: Infrastructure? - 7/5/2005 1:05:08 AM

LaVean

Posts: 46
Joined: 7/1/2005
Status: offline

I will repond without being personal...I could comment on your "knowledge" of non military military subjects in the period but that would be too easy.

As for diplomats you claim they are historic yet their characteristics are a function of the level of a court...you claim that above 5 they have 2 actions but if you are not an Empire you have only one diplomatic action.

So if I start with Talleyrand the argueably best diploat of the period (at Alexander thought so) then he must be close to the top..so in the 1792 scenario what two actions can I do before it is declared an Empire?

(in reply to LaVean)

Post #: 5

RE: Infrastructure? - 7/5/2005 1:06:07 AM

LaVean

Posts: 46
Joined: 7/1/2005
Status: offline

Maybe the problem is that I have read the manual....you seemto get a lot of posts about how confusing it is.

(in reply to LaVean)

Post #: 6

RE: Infrastructure? - 7/5/2005 1:07:16 AM

SLTxDarkknight

Posts: 73
Joined: 6/4/2005
Status: offline

(in reply to LaVean)

Post #: 7

RE: Infrastructure? - 7/5/2005 1:08:10 AM

bluemonday

Posts: 233
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaVean

I will repond without being personal...I could comment on your "knowledge" of non military military subjects in the period but that would be too easy.

Who are you responding to? You have no idea what my knowledge is of anything except the game rules, since that is the only thing I have written here.

quote:

As for diplomats you claim they are historic yet their characteristics are a function of the level of a court...

I made no claim of anything - I quoted the manual in response to your question.

(in reply to LaVean)

Post #: 8

RE: Infrastructure? - 7/5/2005 1:16:42 AM

Franz von G

Posts: 36
Joined: 7/1/2005
Status: offline

i have no problem to say that "non military military subjects in the period" never interested me, so i haven't specific info on that sort of things; what i said in the other thread come from analys of the warfare (French troops use foraging, and fresh meat whenever they can, and i don't remember many soldiers saved by canned food in Russia, but maybe i'm wrong).

what i can not understand is why a player who bought the game doesn't read the manual before asking in the forum..
so:
1- you dowloaded a rip of the game from emule or bittorrent (and in that case, i have to ask sorry to the devs for quoting the manual here)
2- you have the manual, but you are too lazy to read it yourself..

in both case, you are on the wrong side

and don't take it personally: i'm not an english speaker, so sometimes i'm a bit rough

(in reply to LaVean)

Post #: 9

RE: Infrastructure? - 7/5/2005 1:19:50 AM

LaVean

Posts: 46
Joined: 7/1/2005
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I have read the manual...it is confusing, poorly organized and many subjects silent.

Si vous voudrais en francais,il ne pas un problem pour moi.

(in reply to LaVean)

Post #: 10

RE: Infrastructure? - 7/5/2005 1:23:14 AM

Franz von G

Posts: 36
Joined: 7/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaVean

I have read the manual...it is confusing, poorly organized and many subjects silent.

naah, it's not so terrible

Surely it has flaws, but on the things that you asked it seems quite clear..

quote:

Si vous voudrais en francais,il ne pas un problem pour moi.

my french is worst than my english

and i don't speak german or spanish, or dutch or.. ok,i'm italian

(in reply to LaVean)

Post #: 11

RE: Infrastructure? - 7/5/2005 1:24:40 AM

Queeg

Posts: 495
Joined: 6/23/2005
Status: offline

I've read the manual and agree that, like most manuals, it's stronger on some points than others. But it does seem to spell out the benefits of the various infrastructure improvements. Assuming, of course, that the game actually plays out as the manual describes - and I haven't yet seen any indication that it doesn't, at least on this issue. I'm still in the early learning stage, though.

(in reply to LaVean)

Post #: 12

RE: Infrastructure? - 7/5/2005 4:24:24 PM

Mr. Z

Posts: 1048
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline

Just to clarify:

"Diplomatic actions" include treaties (among other things). Diplomats, oddly enough, do not perform diplomatic actions--though they do perform diplomatic orders. They can likewise perform these orders (Charm, Coup, etc.) essentially once per turn--you give them the order, and they execute it. This, however, does not restrict a player's ability to create, for example, one treaty per turn in any way--treaties (and other diplomatic actions) are entirely separate from Diplomats.

Hopefully this will help clarify matters somewhat.

(in reply to Queeg)

Post #: 13