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RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch

 
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RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/5/2005 9:01:33 PM   
jchastain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jchastain

The victory point cost for ceding a province = ( 3 * culture + courts) * 200 ( + 1000 if a home province )

The numbers are examples and would abviously need to be tweaked a bit, but you get the idea.


To edit my own suggestion, it might also be worth adding a sizable additional VP cost to cede a province that doesn't share a border with a province already controlled that increases based on distance to the nearest province owned. That would cause expansion to be far more realistic and orderly.

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Post #: 61
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/5/2005 9:06:24 PM   
Reiryc

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

The minimum victory points from a surrender is currently 5,000. I'm thinking of lowering it to 3,500 (where it was for a long time) or maybe 4,000. As getting home provinces in TOS (terms of surrender) cost 2,500, making the minimum less than 5,000 would go a long way toward weakening the effects of victory (in most cases...)

We're also toying with the idea of making provinces with high enough levels of culture and/or courts unable to be ceded via the Cede Province clause. Culture is the weakest Development at present (though it is useful in getting more military upgrades once you've maxed out barracks, and has some small glory and NML value) and this might help make Culture more useful and help keep nations from losing core provinces, which sometimes seems a bit silly.

Comments?


Eric



I'd like to see a bit of a complex formula that comes into play when it comes to being able to have a province ceded to your nation.

1) Province being ceded should have a value based upon the total level of upgrades with more weight being given to culture, barracks, docks and farms imo.

2) No province should be hard coded as costing a certain price.

3) Size of total current army and size of current armies within a certain radius of the province to be ceded affecting the price. If your forces are low and the enemies relatively high, then it would be indicative of a greater overall defeat or unreadiness on your part and thus should lower the province 'price'.

I think having a more variable effect will keep the game from having hard coded limits that aren't reflective of the overall defeat/victory and the consequences that would ensue. Also, by using a more fluid system of pricing the provinces then other diplomatic options will be more widely used and reflective of some of the deals brokered in that time.

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Post #: 62
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/5/2005 9:41:46 PM   
Jordan

 

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Yes, it was a mistake on my part to mention to her the need for a second front....

with regard to economics...I do have some inklings on specifics but I want to play a bit more before offering more concrete suggestions. However, in assuming everything is working as developed, then more clarity regarding cause and effect would be helpful.

Also in the tactical battles, I'm undecided about having the ability to place the units before the battle. On one hand, I would like to see the advantages of the corps system modelled a little better, i.e. distributed manuever. Maybe a little more space would take care of it and grouping the units (more rationally) according to their larger formations would take care of it.

Yes, perhaps increasing waste is not the way to go (and might have unintended consequences on gameplay). I'm just expressing my opinion that I would like the challenges to continue after 1809. Again, not really sure how to accomplish this but my feeling is that is has to do with making it in the self-interest of the player not to dismantle another nation and perhaps even penalize them for doing so.

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Post #: 63
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/5/2005 10:10:50 PM   
Jordan

 

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I like the way this is going.

A high culture rating, esp for home provinces, should make it more expensive to obtain. Also, suppose via victory, I spent the necessary points to get a province, could a "home province" high culture rating make it more difficult to govern...less economic & manpower output, i.e increased wastage for home provinces? Maybe more of a chance of rebellion? Maybe it should trigger the "Europe is alarmed" sooner, where even allies are worried about your rapaciousness. I think there are (good) reasons why Napoleon didn't want to govern the home provinces of Austria or Prussia.

Then the tensions in the game may increase (more tension = more fun)...should I try and take home provinces and dismantle a nation at a greatly increased cost or should I leave them be to possibly rise another day?

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Post #: 64
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/5/2005 10:15:41 PM   
frodon


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Excellent game. Just a shame that I cannot fight tactical battles because of the Plato-error. Hope the next patch will fix this.

Couple of suggestions:

1) Please get some pictures in for generals like Moreau, Kellermann, Lafayette etc etc. Shouldn't be too difficult.

2) Why is Finland a Swedish protectorate in the 1805 scenario? Should be a ordinary Swedish province (just like Norway is a danish province in this scenario).


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Post #: 65
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/5/2005 10:33:22 PM   
GreenDestiny


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I'm all for deploying troops prior to a detailed tactical battle. That way you could put your supply wagons in back of your front lines without them getting attack on the first turn by enemy cavalry.


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Post #: 66
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/5/2005 10:47:15 PM   
Reiryc

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreenDestiny

I'm all for deploying troops prior to a detailed tactical battle. That way you could put your supply wagons in back of your front lines without them getting attack on the first turn by enemy cavalry.



I think this sounds good on the surface but in the end would cause more harm than good.

Sounds odd of course but let me explain. I think that if the player was allowed to deploy his troops, then when he faced the AI, who, no matter how well is programmed, won't be able to compete against a human, then we will hear more cries about the 'woeful AI' when in reality, it's that we, as humans, are going to be able to beat, handily any AI out there (assuming the AI isn't given massive cheats which still doesn't mean it will make good tactical decisions).

Then instead of reorganizing your forces on the field with an enemy approaching, putting you in a bit more of a precarious position to work out of and eventually win over the AI, what we more than likely get is just a plain crushing of the AI since we can set up our forces 'perfectly'.

The only thing I think should be improved would be the placement of supply wagons. They shouldn't be in the vangard of the army as they often are now!



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Post #: 67
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/5/2005 10:50:57 PM   
Wolfeh

 

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I wouldn't mind starting so close to the enemy if my forces werent' such a rabble. As such I have to endure 1,000 casualty damage from forts that my supply wagons have just started next to whilst I try reorganise my forces into something resembling a battle line. This why I don't play detailed battles.

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Post #: 68
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/6/2005 12:13:03 AM   
ericbabe


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I could start caissons in the reinforcement area; that'll keep them securely behind the nation's line.


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Post #: 69
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/6/2005 12:22:19 AM   
ericbabe


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quote:


Perhaps blend your two ideas. Make the cost of ceding a province based upon the culture level. In fact, I might even make it something like:

The victory point cost for ceding a province = ( 3 * culture + courts) * 200 ( + 1000 if a home province )

The numbers are examples and would abviously need to be tweaked a bit, but you get the idea.


All things being equal, I prefer your rule to the simpler one I have in mind... however, I'm not sure what the interface for your rule would look like: each province would have its own victory cost, and somehow we'd have to convey this to the player on the pick-a-province gizmo. The gizmo already distinguishes pickable from unpickable provinces, and so would be easier to add the rule "high levels of culture make provinces unpickable." Also might be nice if provinces surrounded by that nation's territory were also unpickable (there's some silliness involved with this as well). I guess we could show pickable provinces whose values are smaller than the outstanding number of victory points, though this wouldn't convey the difference between cheap and expensive provinces. I'll keep thinking about this... Thanks for the post!


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Post #: 70
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/6/2005 1:37:24 AM   
jchastain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

quote:


Perhaps blend your two ideas. Make the cost of ceding a province based upon the culture level. In fact, I might even make it something like:

The victory point cost for ceding a province = ( 3 * culture + courts) * 200 ( + 1000 if a home province )

The numbers are examples and would abviously need to be tweaked a bit, but you get the idea.


All things being equal, I prefer your rule to the simpler one I have in mind... however, I'm not sure what the interface for your rule would look like: each province would have its own victory cost, and somehow we'd have to convey this to the player on the pick-a-province gizmo. The gizmo already distinguishes pickable from unpickable provinces, and so would be easier to add the rule "high levels of culture make provinces unpickable." Also might be nice if provinces surrounded by that nation's territory were also unpickable (there's some silliness involved with this as well). I guess we could show pickable provinces whose values are smaller than the outstanding number of victory points, though this wouldn't convey the difference between cheap and expensive provinces. I'll keep thinking about this... Thanks for the post!


One easy option is that when you choose a province, it shows the name at the bottom. You could just append the VP cost to the name so that it might read "Austria (4600 Victory Points)". That way, anyone clicking on a province could see the cost and it wouldn't be difficult to click through them and see what one could "afford". The interface already has a mechanism that shows when a player goes above what an opponent will accept and deals with that, so you really don't have to worry about if they choose something that is more than they are allowed to get. It simply adds the clause but doesn't allow them to ratify the treaty.

If you really wanted to get fancy, you could shade the provinces based on cost, but I really don't think that is necessary if you just append the cost as discussed above.

(in reply to ericbabe)
Post #: 71
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/6/2005 2:30:44 AM   
GreenDestiny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

I could start caissons in the reinforcement area; that'll keep them securely behind the nation's line.




That sounds good to me, you got my vote.



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Post #: 72
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/6/2005 4:14:50 AM   
willgamer


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Suggestion:

Please reverse the sort order on most reports so that my data, or the most recent data, is at the top. As it is now, every passing turn/new trade adds to the scrolling down to the bottom of these reports.

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Post #: 73
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/6/2005 4:30:51 AM   
jchastain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreenDestiny

quote:

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

I could start caissons in the reinforcement area; that'll keep them securely behind the nation's line.



That sounds good to me, you got my vote.



Agree. While I would still prefer that the range of starting ranges be reduced to eliminate at least the the closest 25% of results, this would help.

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Post #: 74
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/6/2005 3:27:27 PM   
Sonny

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willgamer

Suggestion:

Please reverse the sort order on most reports so that my data, or the most recent data, is at the top. As it is now, every passing turn/new trade adds to the scrolling down to the bottom of these reports.


Good idea. If that isn't practical (or even if it is implemented) then on the reports if the scroll button/cursor could be at the top for each one that would be a good thing. Right now I read down to the end of a report, click the next tab for the next report and have to move the cursor back to the top once again (if I can find it because the cursor sometimes is under the scroll arrow). Picky? Yes it is - but it is something that is used over and over during a game and becomes very frustrating.

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"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
ahistorical outcomes. "

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Post #: 75
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/7/2005 2:03:30 AM   
marc420

 

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For tactical battles, I'd like to see the starting placements somewhat reflect the strategic situation.
--If the defender is in place and not moving, then those forces should start in a defensive position.
--The attacker should be entering in columns from an edge. Make the columns have an order that puts the Lt Cav out front and the supply caisons in the back.
--If the defender is also moving, make it a meeting engagement and have both sides entering from a map edge.

In a strategic sense, it should be very rare that one army just blunders into another one and there's an instant battle. And if that happens, it should be because of lack of cavalry or other scouting/screening forces. Or maybe also a commander function. Does anyone know of any instances where Napoleon blundered into a battle with no idea of where the enemy was before the shooting started?

I realize the AI might be a limitation here, but I'd rather see work done to improve the AI than have the battles be crippled. I'd very much rather have a game where the battles start with a scouting/screening phase ... not an exact phase in game terms, but a setup where the forces start further apart with the scouting/screening forces just barely in contact.

On another note, it seems like sea battles are way too deadly. I'd say there should be a bigger chance of not having a battle, even when both sides say "seek combat". Those are big sea zones. At sea, fleets were known to sail right past each other. 10 Frigates can't cover hundreds of miles/kms. And also, this was the era of Lines of battle and Rules of engagement. A lot of the naval battles of this era basically were the two lines shooting at each other and destroying a few ships. But big battles where 30-50 ships were destroyed were very rare. In general, part of the idea behind the lines of battle was to keep the fleet intact. Admirals were wary of risking the entire fleet, and it seems like the combat results should reflect that. Perhaps we should have Admirals in addition to Generals, and only the rare Admirals like Nelson are willing to take big risks in a battle. Most should be very cautious with their fleets.

In tactical battles, any chance of getting that big red box off the mini-map. Just an outline of the box would show me the screen view, and the mini-map might be more useful for seeing the big picture then.

Any chance of changing the controls on manpower allocation in a province? I find those sliders hard to use. Especially when there's one unallocated manpower and I'm trying to move the slider by "just that much". Improvements could be ...
-- A text box that lets a player type a value instead of using the slider.
-- Arrow keys at the end that let me move the slider by one unit easily
-- A lock on a control so that if I move another slider too far it doesn't take away manpower from the one I've already set.

On the economics, some sort of consistent estimate of how the turn is going to go. I love the variablity. But it seems to me that the +xx numbers don't take into account the subtractions ... especially waste. I don't want the variablity to go away, but I'd like to be doing my planning based on some reasonable guess as to average results of what might happen when I end turn.

The reports seem to be HTML windows that come up (a guess on my part?). I thinking the ones that say "Economy, Supply, Chat, Rumor" etc. Any chance those could be printed? I have a printer on my system, but almost no game designers ever let me use it.



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Post #: 76
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/7/2005 10:42:01 AM   
Reg Pither


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marc420

Any chance of changing the controls on manpower allocation in a province? I find those sliders hard to use. Especially when there's one unallocated manpower and I'm trying to move the slider by "just that much". Improvements could be ...
-- A text box that lets a player type a value instead of using the slider.
-- Arrow keys at the end that let me move the slider by one unit easily
-- A lock on a control so that if I move another slider too far it doesn't take away manpower from the one I've already set.



I'd like to see any/all of those implemented for all of the slider controls, although, as you say, the manpower ones are probably the most important. They all seem to have increments that are too large for what I want to do, and being able to 'lock' them (a la EUII) so as not to mess up other carefully placed settings would be invaluable.

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Post #: 77
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/7/2005 11:39:11 AM   
Uncle_Joe


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You can lock them by R-clicking on them.

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RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/7/2005 3:01:07 PM   
Sonny

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Uncle_Joe

You can lock them by R-clicking on them.


You can tell they are locked because they will have a red outline around them.

_____________________________

Quote from Snigbert -

"If you mess with the historical accuracy, you're going to have ahistorical outcomes."

"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
ahistorical outcomes. "

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Post #: 79
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/7/2005 3:53:34 PM   
Reg Pither


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sonny

quote:

ORIGINAL: Uncle_Joe

You can lock them by R-clicking on them.


You can tell they are locked because they will have a red outline around them.


Thanks for that info, guys! That helps a lot.

(in reply to Sonny)
Post #: 80
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/7/2005 11:20:50 PM   
kerguelen

 

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Another suggestion would be to give cossack, irregular and light cavalry a higher chance to avoid battle (they should be much better in this than infantry) and it would give them a real advantage in destroying the enemies supply lines.

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Post #: 81
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/8/2005 12:09:15 AM   
Kipper


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I mentioned it in the bug forum but thought I would add it here to have it in the patch-list:

In tactical battles, please give an option to have units that have the status of "shaken" to have an exclaimation mark (or some other plain symbol) to identify this state rather than have them "jiggle" on-screen which is literally giving me a headache and has resulted in my not playing the game until this human-computer interface issue is sorted out.

Thanks

Kipper

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Post #: 82
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/8/2005 12:14:50 PM   
ezjax


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I. Undo button 4 Stategic move, Province Development Upgrade, Unit Build

2. Hide Enemy Depots in my Province, when (Enemy (AI) plans an attack on me I can see it coming by where it places the depots in my Provinces. I would rather not see them.

3. Restrict Invasion By Sea 2 Ports Only, or at least penalize the unload time when dropping troops off on a Province with no ports to maybe 2 or 3 months B4 they can unload. Also it would be nice if when dropping troops off in a Province with a port, that the port be able to defend it self from the landings. A possible way to reflect this would be to require the Invasion fleet to hav at least 10 Frigate/Hvy class ships accompany the troop transports for every gun level Province they are attacking. Example If you want to invand a port Province with a Gun level of 4 you must hav at least 40 Frigate/Hvy ships with your troop transports in order for the landings 2 take place.



< Message edited by ezjax -- 7/8/2005 12:15:40 PM >

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Post #: 83
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/8/2005 2:27:18 PM   
Jonny_B


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ericbabe, Thanks.

How about a game that starts in the year 1796 and finishes the year of Napoleon second defeat, or until all your enemies have capitulated. A very long term strategy game, like the great game “War in the Pacific.” I know a lot of game players like small quick scenarios; however there are a few of us gamers that like long term scenarios, almost lasting forever.

I know this might be wishing for to much. Still I would have like to seen parts of the New World located on the map. The colonies played a major function in economics and small skirmishes over them would have been such fun. (yes I see the colony money)

This would have include the newly formed United States and could possible be a major player, for us yanks. Although I have seen a few American ships in the Mediterranean Sea, there must have been some though about such ideas.

Thanks again.

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Post #: 84
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/8/2005 4:49:19 PM   
Mr. Z


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quote:

How about a game that starts in the year 1796 and finishes the year of Napoleon second defeat, or until all your enemies have capitulated. A very long term strategy game, like the great game “War in the Pacific.” I know a lot of game players like small quick scenarios; however there are a few of us gamers that like long term scenarios, almost lasting forever.

FWIW, you can play a scenario for up to 15 years--change the game length on the setup screen. Since we have a 1796 scenario, you can thus play it up to 1811. Not quite the whole period, but a long time! And someone on another thread has combined *all* the general files into a single file.

(You can even promote generals in a roundabout way--save a game, quit, then open the generals file and change their rank--and restart the game! I've never tried this, but I see no reason why it wouldn't work.)

(in reply to Jonny_B)
Post #: 85
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/8/2005 5:04:12 PM   
siRkid


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zan

An explanation of each upgrade on the upgrade popup would be nice.



I was dissapointed when I r-clicked on the upgrades and did not get any info. I second this sujestion.

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Post #: 86
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/9/2005 1:52:48 PM   
Reg Pither


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kid


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zan

An explanation of each upgrade on the upgrade popup would be nice.



I was dissapointed when I r-clicked on the upgrades and did not get any info. I second this sujestion.


There are so many things in this game that would really benefit from pop-up or right click explanations. Having to scrabble through an on-screen manual to get info is very cumbersome in this day and age.

(in reply to siRkid)
Post #: 87
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/9/2005 5:35:38 PM   
SuomiKp


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How about making the AI's turn's slower in tactical battles ?
Everything happens too fast to keep track

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Post #: 88
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/9/2005 6:54:26 PM   
siRkid


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On the Review Trade window put how much the trade route cost under the Active Button. But only for the active palyer.

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Post #: 89
RE: Wish List: Suggestions for a future patch - 7/9/2005 6:55:30 PM   
sol_invictus


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Did you move the green speed slider down to make the turn slower?

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Post #: 90
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