So wrong on so many levels :)

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So wrong on so many levels :) - 7/13/2005 7:08:04 PM

carnifex

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This should never be allowed to happen

And I don't mean the Russian should have garrisoned St. Petersburg better.

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RE: So wrong on so many levels :) - 7/13/2005 7:15:21 PM

Mr. Z

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quote:

This should never be allowed to happen

Oh, I don't know--perhaps you should think of "Guerillas" as just meaning "random conscripts from the countryside". I can conceive of an unlikely but possible situation where they were formed into a regular army, and sailed off to Russia. Many have commented on the Russia-vs.-Spain wars that come about from time to time, but it's not easy to think of a good way to prevent this--or a good reason, for that matter. IMO, the possibility of Spain invading Russia and vice-versa opens up gameplay in an interesting and enjoyable way.

Though I suppose we could restrict guerillas to home provinces, or something like that.

(in reply to carnifex)

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RE: So wrong on so many levels :) - 7/13/2005 7:21:05 PM

Gil R.

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NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!

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RE: So wrong on so many levels :) - 7/13/2005 7:22:03 PM

Reiryc

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Although it does open up options, I do think that guerilla units should stick to home provinces if it isn't a major programming issue.

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RE: So wrong on so many levels :) - 7/13/2005 7:45:33 PM

Latour_Maubourg

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Or.. If abroad only in neighbouring provinces.

L-M.

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"What have you got to cry about man, you have one less boot to polish in future." L-M's reaction at his distressed valet after his leg was shot off at Leipzig.

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RE: So wrong on so many levels :) - 7/13/2005 7:46:32 PM

ggallagher

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From: Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!

Next up......a clamor for the "Comfy Chair" unit building option.....

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Post #: 6

RE: So wrong on so many levels :) - 7/13/2005 8:09:49 PM

ericbabe

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Keeping guerillas from moving into enemy territory is a good idea, or allowing them to operate just across the border. There are difficulties in implementing it.

An easy solution might be something like this:

Unattached guerillas units cannot leave home territory as part of their normal movement.

Guerillas attached to corps/armies can leave home territory with the corps/army but operate at a severe penalty outside of home territory (they become similar to militia, I guess). This allows a nation to organize its guerillas if it really wants to create the "Guerilla!" army.

Unattached guerillas that somehow end up in enemy territory are automatically disbanded.

(in reply to carnifex)

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RE: So wrong on so many levels :) - 7/13/2005 8:17:49 PM

Tanaka

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

Keeping guerillas from moving into enemy territory is a good idea, or allowing them to operate just across the border. There are difficulties in implementing it.

An easy solution might be something like this:

Unattached guerillas units cannot leave home territory as part of their normal movement.

Guerillas attached to corps/armies can leave home territory with the corps/army but operate at a severe penalty outside of home territory (they become similar to militia, I guess). This allows a nation to organize its guerillas if it really wants to create the "Guerilla!" army.

Unattached guerillas that somehow end up in enemy territory are automatically disbanded.

great ideas!!!

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 7/13/2005 8:18:05 PM >

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Post #: 8

RE: So wrong on so many levels :) - 7/13/2005 8:21:11 PM

Latour_Maubourg

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Good one Eric.. But organised guerillas should only be effictive in their own country.

L-M.

_____________________________

"What have you got to cry about man, you have one less boot to polish in future." L-M's reaction at his distressed valet after his leg was shot off at Leipzig.

(in reply to Tanaka)

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RE: So wrong on so many levels :) - 7/13/2005 10:03:13 PM

dpstafford

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

Keeping guerillas from moving into enemy territory is a good idea, or allowing them to operate just across the border. There are difficulties in implementing it.

I also think that you should put some sort of territorial limits on other types of irregular troops such Cossacks and Landwehr.

(in reply to ericbabe)

Post #: 10

RE: So wrong on so many levels :) - 7/13/2005 10:14:26 PM

ahauschild

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Actuly, Landwer for prussians was a special thing. They where not Militia per say, and not Line, they where something betwheen. Since they could not per treaty maintain a large army, they basicly gave the complete training to men, then rotated them out and did it again. This way they could muster in case of war large allready trained troops, not as well as Line, but much better then militia, this units would be expected to fill the divisions just like line. Actuly most Prussian Divisions had a 2 to 1 ratio of Landwer versus regular line.

Cossacks are again something really different. They actuly did not perform well at all within the army during battle. They sucked, some rare exeptions excluded. But they did do one thing very well, they harrassed the enemy supply lines and pursuit with vigor the retreating enemy troops, not because they where very dedicated to mother russia, but because that was the best way the could get the most loot without risking their necks. They in general would not penetrate deep into enemy areas.

Garrisons where nothing more then Militia, just a bad way of naming them. Militia was used in offensive manuvers into other nations often, as maintaining full complemented line army was to expensive and often not enough time existed.

(in reply to dpstafford)

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RE: So wrong on so many levels :) - 7/13/2005 11:08:04 PM

kerguelen

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quote:

I also think that you should put some sort of territorial limits on other types of irregular troops such Cossacks and Landwehr.

quote:

They in general would not penetrate deep into enemy areas.

In 1814 they were camping in the streets of Paris. Not on their own of course, but together with the rest of the Russian army.

(in reply to ahauschild)

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RE: So wrong on so many levels :) - 7/13/2005 11:25:11 PM

DrewMatrix

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quote:

In 1814 they were camping in the streets of Paris.

"M Cossack, your table at our cafe is ready. Would you like the Horse-Fodder on the non-Horse-Fodder section>"

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RE: So wrong on so many levels :) - 7/13/2005 11:55:35 PM

malcolm_mccallum

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Grumble grumble.

Guerillas shouldn't be controllable by their home nation (or anyone else). IF you choose to generate a guerilla unit it cannot be formed into armies and if there are no armies in the province where there are guerrillas, they turn to banditry and drain your economy.

Sure, give an option to convert guerillas into regular troops (at cost in time and money) but if its a guerilla, it isn't under your control.

Spanish Guerillas caused as many problems for the Spanish and British armies as they did for the French and some of those guerillas were even French and British deserters.

(in reply to DrewMatrix)

Post #: 14

RE: So wrong on so many levels :) - 7/14/2005 12:55:33 AM

kerguelen

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quote:

"M Cossack, your table at our cafe is ready. Would you like the Horse-Fodder on the non-Horse-Fodder section>"

Actually M. le Cossack was usually in a hurry but instead of "vite, vite !" he said it in russian: "Bistro!"

(in reply to malcolm_mccallum)

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RE: So wrong on so many levels :) - 7/14/2005 1:23:00 AM

Naomi

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I am not convinced that cossacks or guerrillas can actually manoeuvre as smoothly in alien territories as in their home nations. Such rag-tag units know only their native lands well enough to play effective ambush/assault roles there, while their hide-and-seek gifts should be largely compromised abroad. At least, there is no (well-known) historical account of cossacks/guerrillas rampaging round in Guallist areas. I was really amazed when I had to send my French corps on merry-go-rounds with Cossacks even in my domestic soil.